(12-08-2025, 01:37 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Question...is it the worst thing in the world to keep AD?   Lets say he remains relatively healthy and the Mavs make or miss the playin game but don't make the real playoffs.    Lets also say they don't strike lottery gold again and pick around 10.    If they take that pick and really like that player, it is the worst thing in the world to keep AD and Kyrie even with good offers heading into next season.  It is a pretty deep and talented team...probably not a real contender yet.  Although, are any of the trades we have discussed putting the Mavs in a better spot for the next 1-2 years?  Remember eventually AD and Kyrie contracts expire.    When does it look more appealing to keep them and then have the potential cap room (with younger players) in a few years?   

After this year, Mavs will have three first round picks in the next 4 years.   Most, if not all, will be very late first round picks.   But they are first round picks.   A good scouting dept won't hit on all three, but can they hit on 1.5?

I understand it though, there are 3-4 times a game when AD falls down when my first thought is that he will never play basketball again.   I just am not crazy with any of the deals I have seen.

(12-08-2025, 11:09 AM)Smitty Wrote: All true. Still, for someone that was labeled as a 'work in progress' on the offensive side of the ball, very impressive.

(12-08-2025, 01:37 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Question...is it the worst thing in the world to keep AD?   Lets say he remains relatively healthy and the Mavs make or miss the playin game but don't make the real playoffs.    Lets also say they don't strike lottery gold again and pick around 10.    If they take that pick and really like that player, it is the worst thing in the world to keep AD and Kyrie even with good offers heading into next season.  It is a pretty deep and talented team...probably not a real contender yet.  Although, are any of the trades we have discussed putting the Mavs in a better spot for the next 1-2 years?  Remember eventually AD and Kyrie contracts expire.    When does it look more appealing to keep them and then have the potential cap room (with younger players) in a few years?   

After this year, Mavs will have three first round picks in the next 4 years.   Most, if not all, will be very late first round picks.   But they are first round picks.   A good scouting dept won't hit on all three, but can they hit on 1.5?

I understand it though, there are 3-4 times a game when AD falls down when my first thought is that he will never play basketball again.   I just am not crazy with any of the deals I have seen.

(12-08-2025, 01:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: No its completely valid to keep AD.

If he remains healthy and Kyrie returns, the Mavs are competitive. Are they contenders? That I'm not sure of, but competitive means a higher trade value. 

If AD is injured, the Mavs can get a higher draft pick. Win-win truthfully. Any shortcut deal where we get a pu-pu platter of JAG's from CHI would be a massive mistake.

(12-08-2025, 01:37 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: Question...is it the worst thing in the world to keep AD?   Lets say he remains relatively healthy and the Mavs make or miss the playin game but don't make the real playoffs.    Lets also say they don't strike lottery gold again and pick around 10.    If they take that pick and really like that player, it is the worst thing in the world to keep AD and Kyrie even with good offers heading into next season.  It is a pretty deep and talented team...probably not a real contender yet.  Although, are any of the trades we have discussed putting the Mavs in a better spot for the next 1-2 years?  Remember eventually AD and Kyrie contracts expire.    When does it look more appealing to keep them and then have the potential cap room (with younger players) in a few years?   

After this year, Mavs will have three first round picks in the next 4 years.   Most, if not all, will be very late first round picks.   But they are first round picks.   A good scouting dept won't hit on all three, but can they hit on 1.5?

I understand it though, there are 3-4 times a game when AD falls down when my first thought is that he will never play basketball again.   I just am not crazy with any of the deals I have seen.

(12-08-2025, 03:31 PM)F Gump Wrote: While I am not averse to trading AD, because I think the pieces on the roster all fit once he's gone, I don't think trading AD is the ONLY possible way to make this roster better. It might not even be the best way.

The question shouldn't be about how AD is not perfect, but rather whether you are getting back high level talent or not. A pile of random role players and fringe starters and some low tier draft picks really doesn't move the needle at all. It makes you feel good in the moment to get that huge handful of shiny beads, but you gotta get one or more surefire future stars in order to get full value. AD's impact on the floor is significant, even when he doesn't put up eye-popping stats, because he impacts the game a lot on the defensive end, and that's a LOT to give up.

(12-08-2025, 04:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: There is no question AD provides valuable impact on the floor when he is available.  You could make the argument that is counterproductive this season.  The goal of an AD trade is not to make the team better right now (it won't) its to make the team better in the future (when AD would be off the team or killing the cap with an extension). 

You talk about low tier draft picks, but odds are the Chicago picks will be better than what Dallas currently has.  That has value for a team building around a young superstar.  AD is not going to land a surefire future star.  He is a very good player but he is also an aging oft injured player on a massive contract.   Teams are not going to give up the kitchen sink for that.  If he struggles with injuries all season and can't play half the games he could very easily become a negative asset for all of that talent.

More than anything, trading AD will ensure this FO won't kid itself into thinking there is a window and trade the remaining future assets in a win now move, and there will no longer be concern regarding an AD extension.  If they can get a couple of decent firsts and maybe an interesting player it will be worth it just to make sure this doesn't happen.

(12-08-2025, 04:44 PM)F Gump Wrote: Good argument and opinion. I just don't happen to agree with it as any sort of wise roster-building approach, especially operating in the fear mindset that "he might not be worth high trade value later, so we better accept low trade value now!"

I'll take high AD value now. Or later. Or keep him and see how far a Davis-Flagg-Kyrie core can take us. And I think ALL of those will eventually lead to a much better outcome than to just take whatever you can get asap.

I've been on the trade AD bandwagon before anyone. And the tank this season bandwagon before anyone. But I am NEVER for the belief that you lessen your talent base considerably in a hurry to turn the page (instead, work to INCREASE the talent, always). I am a Sam Presti fan when it comes to roster building, and that's been his approach. (PS - Hire Presti. Then we don't have to worry about it.)

If you think AD's value is too low to get high value now, just be patient. Trade values for players are a rollercoaster.

(12-08-2025, 05:07 PM)mvossman Wrote: If AD is still on the roster at the beginning of next season then they likely failed.

(12-08-2025, 05:23 PM)F Gump Wrote: I don't think this is true. Putting an artificial deadline on yourself, forcing yourself into a corner, is the perfect recipe for getting screwed in a trade. (See Harrison, N, re Luka.) The deadline should be whenever the high value (plus more) suitor comes calling. There is availability, but only AD to be had, with no clearance sale looming.

If Dumont will find a way to get Presti, then we'll be good. Presti gets it. He always is willing to deal, and provide you what you want - but it has to be at HIS price. That's the posture that must be created. Once Lindsey was gone, Nico never understood it.

(12-08-2025, 05:41 PM)mvossman Wrote: It's being realistic.  If they can't find a decent trade for him this TDL or the offseason the odds of finding a better one later when he is a year or more older is slim.

(12-08-2025, 06:06 PM)F Gump Wrote: I think that "reality" is only real if you think it is. 

We saw the same equation in OKC when they were "stuck with" Westbrook. And then they weren't, as they got full value for him and then some, from a team who convinced themselves they HAD TO have him. Of course, after that they were "stuck with" CP3, rinse and repeat, Horford, rinse and repeat, etc over and over. They never traded because they HAD TO but instead they waited until someone was eager and desperate to offer full value and maybe a bit more. 

It actually started with PG, of course -- he was semi available but they didnt get the offer -- until they did, from LAC who simply had to have him. Full value and more, a huge haul.

When you have THE TALENT, patience will win. There's not enough top talent, already developed  to go around, and the longer he's out there, the more teams will try to figure if he might be their answer and how to persuade the Mavs to say yes. 

An easy yes to the first lukewarm suitor won't get you that deal. Patience wins. There is always another trade window ahead, and sooner or later a team will be desperate for that last piece. 

You just need a GM who understands how to play the game. I act when I am the chasee, and never the chaser. When others are bidding to try to wrestle away what I have, not the other way around. The Mavs have the ONLY AD, and the competition will emerge for him at some point. No rush here.

(12-08-2025, 06:22 PM)mvossman Wrote: I agree with all of this in general, but I think the difference is we are dealing with an injury ticking time bomb.  I might just have PTSD from the KP fiasco, but that was definitely a case where patience was not a virtue.

(12-08-2025, 06:37 PM)F Gump Wrote: Yet KP got a better return when others traded him, yes? Maybe it was a case of the Mavs trading out of desperation, rather than KP suddenly losing all his value? Maybe the lesson to be learned from KP is about being desperate and taking whatever you can get, and thinking you MUST make a trade and take the first offer you can find. 

The one chasing the deal loses. Have the patience to let the deal find you and beg for you to swap. Patience wins.