(10-30-2025, 07:41 AM)Smitty Wrote: We've joked before that the "trade" would actually be known as the Max Christie trade when it's all said and done. Good to see him playing really good basketball on both ends.


This season:

12.3 PPG
1.3 RPG
1.3 APG
55.2% FG
56.5% 3PT (5.8 3PA)
100% FT

(10-30-2025, 09:00 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Scattershooting:

I've yet to see a single person disagree when someone posts something about trading AD.  Yet, posting those words seems to be a badge of honor for some.  What would be helpful would be if someone could come up with suggestions on cap legal trades that actually make sense for the other team.  I've been looking and it isn't easy to do.  So far, Atlanta is about the only thing I've come up with.  Are they crazy enough to try to add AD to their Trae/KP core?  Even if the answer was yes, I suspect it would be a summer trade rather than a TDL trade.

As much as I'd like the team (and AD) to succeed, I worry that success might not be in our best interest.  AD is extension eligible this summer.  I don't think he's much of a threat to opt out of his 27/28 PO, but I worry that success either this season or next will cause Nico to want to double down and add some years to AD's deal.  No thank you.  What we need is enough AD success to peak another teams interest, but not so much success that Nico gives him more money.  BTW, I'm not enamored with the idea of picks in an AD trade.  Give me guys who fit well with Cooper's skill set and timeline.

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(10-30-2025, 09:00 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I'm a big Christie fan, but I wasn't all that excited to watch the Point-Christie experiment that was going on last night.  I'm OK with efforts to throw Flagg into the deep end and hopefully improve his skills as a swimmer.  That's an investment and that kind of investment has paid off before with superstars like Tatum and Giannis.  But, I think Christie is a guy whose confidence and effectiveness are hurt by asking him to do too much.  He's good at certain things.  Let him do those things.

Scattershooting:

I've yet to see a single person disagree when someone posts something about trading AD.  Yet, posting those words seems to be a badge of honor for some.  What would be helpful would be if someone could come up with suggestions on cap legal trades that actually make sense for the other team.  I've been looking and it isn't easy to do.  So far, Atlanta is about the only thing I've come up with.  Are they crazy enough to try to add AD to their Trae/KP core?  Even if the answer was yes, I suspect it would be a summer trade rather than a TDL trade.

As much as I'd like the team (and AD) to succeed, I worry that success might not be in our best interest.  AD is extension eligible this summer.  I don't think he's much of a threat to opt out of his 27/28 PO, but I worry that success either this season or next will cause Nico to want to double down and add some years to AD's deal.  No thank you.  What we need is enough AD success to peak another teams interest, but not so much success that Nico gives him more money.  BTW, I'm not enamored with the idea of picks in an AD trade.  Give me guys who fit well with Cooper's skill set and timeline.

Welcome back Mr. Williams and congrats to FG for his steadfast belief in his game.

As I said earlier, I don't hate Kidd's efforts to expand Flagg's game (or test his game...maybe).  Its not like he had a choice while Williams was out.  The problem I have is Flagg tends to defer to AD when he's in the game.  That, plus the game is pretty slow in those minutes.  I'm not sure playing a PG (when we have two or more healthy ones who aren't in jail) helps Flagg that much when AD is in the game.  Flagg playing with a bunch of ball movers, some of whom can hit open shots?  Sign me up for more of that.  The other problem with inserting Williams or D'Lo into the starting lineup is you have to sit someone if everyone is healthy.  PJ has arguably been our best player...so, not him.  Lively?  No, his development is important to me.  The obvious candidate would be Klay, but that screws up the bench rotation and will hurt Max's development.  Bad Klay is really a problem for this team.

My thought entering the season was hang around .500 until Kyrie returns and then maybe we can win 60% of our games from that point forward.  If Kyrie gets back at the halfway mark, that makes you a 45 win team.  Injuries and a new system with new people playing key roles is making the first part of the equation difficult to envision at this point.  But, if we hadn't laid an egg in that Washington game we'd be 3-2.  I don't think Kidd really cares what the record is right now.  there will be enough teams crowded around the 6th-11th spots that teams can control their destiny in the last month of the season.  6th in the west would be ideal if we are good enough when Kyrie returns.  Falling into the lottery isn't the end of the world either.  It would make this season brutal to watch, but it would probably be better for us in the long run.

(10-30-2025, 10:16 AM)mvossman Wrote: An AD extension would be a complete disaster.  My biggest fear was that Nico would trade away the rest of our future assets in a futile trade, and now you have added this to the list of concerns.

I think you have to insert a PG into the starting lineup.  The numbers are so blatant right now.  Until all three of AD/Lively/Gafford are healthy the easy answer is to start only one center, and I am starting to wonder if all three will ever be healthy together.

(10-30-2025, 11:38 AM)Smitty Wrote: I still think the gripes about Kidd not having a PG on the court at all times is overblown. He's only had DLO and Nembhard available, until last night when BWill posted bail. If the argument is that Kidd should have been playing DLO 48 minutes, it's unreasonable. If you think Nembhard was the difference in a win or loss, I can't get there.

(10-30-2025, 11:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I don't think the issue is that Cooper is playing point.  He really isn't that much.  The issue is who you pair him with.   Eventually Cooper is going to be very good being a focal point of an offense.   How soon?  Time will tell.

(10-30-2025, 11:47 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: You keep making the argument that the starters don't really matter compared to other things, like the closing lineup and the group that plays the most together throughout the game, and normally I'd agree. That's a discussion we've had around here (and in past community locations) for 20 years. In a general sense, I agree with that take, but usually, the starting lineup has a chance to be successful, even if some argue it's not ideal. In this case, I disagree, mostly because I DON'T think "getting Flagg some time running the offense" is a reasonable or defensible goal at this point in time. What THIS team needs is to find something...anything...that works well enough to build around. You and I seem to agree about what we think that group will be, for the most part. In the specific circumstances of this team, this season, I actually do think it's a mistake not to lean into that and get games started off on better footing. 

And yes, sorry...I do think playing Nembhard more than Russell in a game or two early might've been the difference between winning and losing. Nobody wants to play Russell 48 minutes, but I think he played as few as 12 in one game. I'm sorry, but I think that's criminal, given who has been available.

(10-30-2025, 12:02 PM)Smitty Wrote: And to double down on the starting group opinion. I've always felt people put way too much emphasis on it, especially in Kidd's tenure. They play 8-10 minutes together in a 48-minute game. I'm much more concerned with the other 38-40 minutes. It doesn't mean I don't think it's important or have opinions on what would make that group better, just that those opinions get recycled and emphasized, mostly to call the coach an idiot. I think its lazy.

(10-30-2025, 12:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Again...this isn't the conversation. This isn't a conversation about whether or not the starters need to be the 5 best players on the team, or the best lineup synergy possible, or whatever. I have been on your side of that conversation for 20 years. I agree. 

But in THIS case, they are starting 5 players (or have been) that have, in my mind, almost a 0% chance of playing well together. I know some disagree, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't believe you're one of them. 

I agree, having only Russell and Nembhard available made things tougher to start the season, but I get the sense that the lineup I hate is the lineup they LOVE. This is my concern. Can we maybe experiment with that lineup against the other team's bench unit a little more? Is it really reasonable to literally GIVE the other team ownership of the game's first 5-7 minutes? Again, it's not that they're not starting with their BEST lineup that bothers me, it's that they're starting with a lineup that's basically guaranteed to hand the first subs a 10 point deficit. 

Right now, they have Russell AND Williams healthy and available. AND, the bigs are becoming less available daily. I suuuuuuuuure hope Kidd takes this opportunity to get more ball-handling in the games, even if it's just to keep the gun out of my mouth.

(10-30-2025, 11:38 AM)Smitty Wrote: I still think the gripes about Kidd not having a PG on the court at all times is overblown. He's only had DLO and Nembhard available, until last night when BWill posted bail. If the argument is that Kidd should have been playing DLO 48 minutes, it's unreasonable. If you think Nembhard was the difference in a win or loss, I can't get there.

(10-30-2025, 12:54 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm surprise this is your attitude for someone who likes to break down the numbers. The stat somebody posted regarding Dlo on/off is insane.  He is not even playing that well, but its a testament to how desperate this team is for creation.  I agree Dlo can't play 48 minutes and Nembhard is not a difference maker, but Dlo played 9 minutes in that Wizards game and none in the second half.  I think there is a very good chance they win that game if he gets 30+.  They had both Dlo and Williams last night and played 10 losing (-6) minutes without either on the court.  For a team struggling with all of these injuries they have no margin for error and can't afford to blow games with silly lineups.

(10-30-2025, 11:52 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: When you throw him out there with AD, Center, Klay and PJ it is just messy.  Who is the connector?   Who can put pressure on a defense off the dribble?  You are left with a very stuck in the mud offense where everyone is looking at each other.   AD is slow enough already.   Get down the court and not wait in the backcourt to see if he needs to dribble the ball up the court.   Add one creator and things opens up.  Add another secondary creator with COOP and things really open up.    

(10-30-2025, 01:00 PM)Smitty Wrote: I posted the stat. I understand the importance of having a PG on the court at all times. If you read all of my posts, you'll see the missing context. If I need to jump on the Kidd is an idiot train, then yes, I think DLO should have played a lot more in the Wizards game.

(10-30-2025, 01:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: I got caught up in work while posting this and missed several posts since the one I replied to.

I do disagree with the term "overblown".  I think Kidd has been even more stubborn with this than usual.  He had the perfect opportunity to start a PG last night with the injuries (and Bwill being back) and went with Max instead.  I still think there is some kind of passive aggressiveness going on.

(10-30-2025, 01:33 PM)Smitty Wrote: Your first mistake was letting work get in the way. You're not a true MFFL.

(10-28-2025, 12:28 PM)mvossman Wrote: You took some flack on the Max better than Klay comment, but I will say I would much rather see Max on the court right now.

(10-30-2025, 10:02 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I am ok going with the AD timeline and Cooper timeline for now.  Although we will need to see quick progress as AD as your best player.    I am also not in favor of chasing the AD can lead your team to a championship down a cliff. So no short sited moves that will impact your future.   If this team does not look good enough, we may need to change directions this summer.

I don't think there is any chance AD is moved this year.  Probably the only chance is if Nico is fired and this year does not go as planned and something happens in the summer.  Probably low chance though.   If they were to look for a deal, one of the limiting factors is most of the teams who are interested in the Bucks and Giannis would be the trade partners for AD.   I don't see any of those teams exiting that wait in order to secure AD.

(10-31-2025, 07:29 AM)Smitty Wrote: @sixfivelando
Max Christie on the court, Klay off the court
+7.64 Net Rating
121.43 Offensive Rating
113.79 Defensive Rating

Klay Thompson on the court, Max off the court
-26.20 Net Rating
90.98 Offensive Rating
117.19 Defensive Rating



It's early in the season and the small sample size stuff is always wonky but it fits the eye test. Despite Klay being a huge negative, the starting lineup is still a net positive. The simplest solution is inserting a PG for Klay, right? Or maybe just inserting Max?  

As for Klay's game. Part of me thinks he's declined quite a bit and part of me wants to think he'd look a lot better playing alongside a real PG at all times. At least that's some copium for the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, he went from adequate to bad pretty quickly. 

Either way, I stand by my statement that Max is a better player than Klay at this point in their careers. Klay is a notoriously slow starter though, and I do think he will have stretches that will help this team win games.