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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein? (/showthread.php?tid=2444)
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RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - dirkfansince1998 - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 12:15 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: @esidery
Dorian Finney-Smith is a strong candidate to be traded from the Nets this offseason.
Brooklyn shopped Finney-Smith at the deadline receiving robust interest from contenders.
All of the following teams who reportedly checked in on Finney-Smith could circle back leading up to the draft: Bucks, Cavaliers, Grizzlies, Kings, Lakers, Suns, Thunder.
Two more years and he can return on a vet min. Finish his career with the Mavs.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - RGP1981 - 05-27-2024
A coupla pages ago, someone mentioned Anfernee Simons. I've been thinking about that... and although I like the thought behind that idea, I just can't see Anfernee accepting the role of 6th man. Whereas, Coby White might, if the Mavericks can get the Bulls to part with him. He might be swayed by the possibility of being Kyrie's replacement in the future, a couple of years away, and a bigger contract on a winning team. As a bonus to the Mavericks, Coby is 2 inches taller and a year younger than Anfernee, and on a cheaper contract.
Starting 5:
- Kyrie, DJJ/Green, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
Subbing in for Kyrie:
- Coby, DJJ/Green, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
Subbing in for Luka:
- Kyrie, Coby, DJJ, PJW, Lively/Gafford
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - SwisherPrice - 05-27-2024
Gotta think the Mavs will be interested in bringing back DFS...especially if they lose DJJ but even if they re-sign him too. Having both DJJ and DFS plus PJ would secure the defense. Once Green's new contract goes into effect, I believe you could do a straight up swap and it would make lots of sense for both teams to do it. The Nets wanted Green in the Kyrie trade last year so this could be a chance for both teams to make it right.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - F Gump - 05-27-2024
My Summer Plan
1 Sign DJJ using TxMLE 1+1
2 Trade THJ (plus 2025 1st, lottery protected) for DFS (plus 2026 2nd)
3 Complete roster by keeping Morris and Lawson
Easy peazy
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - KillerLeft - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 02:39 PM)F Gump Wrote: My Summer Plan
1 Sign DJJ using TxMLE 1+1
2 Trade THJ (plus 2025 1st, lottery protected) for DFS (plus 2026 2nd)
3 Complete roster by keeping Morris and Lawson
Easy peazy
If all of that can be done, SIGN ME UP.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - DanSchwartzgan - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 02:39 PM)F Gump Wrote: My Summer Plan
1 Sign DJJ using TxMLE 1+1
2 Trade THJ (plus 2025 1st, lottery protected) for DFS (plus 2026 2nd)
3 Complete roster by keeping Morris and Lawson
Easy peazy
I like Dorian, but this probably isn't my favorite THJ/25 trade. I get that DFS is the rumor of the day and you are simply responding to that. But, I doubt he starts in front of either of our defensive minded starting wings. He also blocks the development of OMax as a future Maxi replacement. OMax needs to get "the Hardy treatment" minutes in the second quarter each game next season. I personally don't think Dorian's position is necessary should we retain DJJ.
Give me the same plan as you've outlined, but insert the Atlanta Bogdanovic instead. I'd play him as sixth man. I'd like a little more offense when either Luka or Kyrie are sitting. He's great off the ball and good on the ball. He fits well in a bench lineup with Green, Maxi and Lively (or Gafford). Hardy and Exum and OMax fight for scraps at the 10th-12th men in the rotation. BTW, I get that I just did the same thing to Hardy that I'm trying to avoid with OMax (block his path with a player who plays the same position). I can certainly see the argument that Hardy needs to eventually become more entrenched in the lineup too. But, I think what BB does is more needed here than what DFS does (but not so much that it is a hill I want to die on).
This conversation about turning THJ/25 into Dorian (or BB) kind of points to the issue I have with trades that just give away THJ (or worse, pay for him to go away). There is going to be value to a functional veteran on a mid-sized expiring contract combined with a first. I really hate the idea of giving away that kind of potential path to improvement. The team had regular season success with Green starting (19-14) and most of that was during the parts of the season we didn't have PJ and Gafford. Kyrie was also missing for a ton of those Green starts. If I can use THJ/25 to improve another area enough (like Dorian or Bogdanovic) without hardcapping myself, I'd probably be OK with wishing DJJ the best of luck in his new home. Jason Timpf mentioned in his video that DJJ is playing like someone who should get a $15mm contract this summer. Capology isn't his thing, but it only takes one team to agree and he's out of reach anyway.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - F Gump - 05-27-2024
"Give me the same plan as you've outlined, but insert the Atlanta Bogdanovic instead. I'd play him as sixth man."
FWIW I don't envision DFS as a starter, but rather the 3rd man in a rotation with PJW-DJJ. I'd be doubling down on the defense's capabilities.
BB works too, as an alternative. I've thought about BB before, but in the context of carving out money for DJJ, he was not a good fit. Then again, DFS isn't either -- this is working on a new paradigm.
I think it's much cleaner roster-building path if DJJ can be signed with TxMLE, and then work on what to do with THJ. Signing DJJ first moves a THJ swap into a "want to" rather than a "have to" posture, which makes for better negotiating (and ultimately, a better deal).
Since BB makes more than THJ, Mavs would need to send more outgoing salary so that it's a 100% trade since they will bust the Apron. Adding Lawson would work. Hardy would also, of course, and might be the ask (and wouldn't Hardy lower or eliminate the need to add a 1st?) If I'm sending a 1st, with Lawson, I want a 2nd rounder back, in the next few years.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Mavs2021 - 05-27-2024
Whoever the next target is he should not be older than 28. Ideally he should be between 22 and 26. We have a very healthy roster set-up, but strategically we need to keep DJJ and look for the long-term Kyrie replacement. I have made Bogdan Bogdnaovic trades, when he was just rights on the Suns, but he´s just not a suitable Kyrie replacement and too expensive for his contributions. Also injury-prone and always on duty in the summer.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - KillerLeft - 05-27-2024
I'm with FGump.
I'm not interested in any changes to the starting lineup, whatsoever, except for (possibly) switching out Gafford for Lively.
The need is the bench. A healthy Kleber (if that ever happens) will help quite a bit, and it looks like Hardy has finally caught a toehold. I'd be surprised if he's not in the opening night rotation next year. I haven't given up on Green, and I think he's cast just about right as the 4th guard (now that they have a 3rd who they trust to handle the ball), and he can play a little 3 in situations where his speed is more important than someone else's size.
But, what's missing to my mind, especially the more I understand how Kidd is trying to play, is another long, versatile forward. Someone off the bench who can fill in for both Washington and DJJ, play near their level, defensively, and possibly most importantly, HAS A CATCH AND SHOOT GAME. Now, I don't have a burning need for that player to be DFS, but he DOES check all those boxes, loves the Mavs, is loved by the Mavs, and we all know he's a high-character, hard-working pro. They could do a ton worse.
O-Max will hopefully get into the mix some behind that mystery addition AND behind Kleber (he has utility in both big and small lineups, which is the allure), but if Hardy wasn't ready to supplant THJ this season until the end, I have a hard time counting on O-Max to be totally ready after a second training camp.
Do all of that and maybe add one more actual PG to play in emergencies (or, IDK, maybe Exum already covers that), put the COMPLETE team through summer off-season, training camp and preseason team bonding, and I think you have a real, live contender. I really do.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - F Gump - 05-27-2024
Piggybacking on prior post, ie looking for a player who is about the same salary as THJ and might make sense -
How about Isaac (ORL)? Makes about the same money as BB. Would be a similar role idea as DFS.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Knutsen - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 05:05 PM)F Gump Wrote: Piggybacking on prior post, ie looking for a player who is about the same salary as THJ and might make sense -
How about Isaac (ORL)? Makes about the same money as BB. Would be a similar role idea as DFS.
I‘m not sure he isn’t too similar to what O-Max will become. He would be a nice Kleber substitute though, unfortunately also with the lack of availability.
I‘d love a bit better shooting and ballhandling compared to DJJ and PJ, even if he‘s a little worse defensively. Just to balance the roster better.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Scott41theMavs - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 04:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Do all of that and maybe add one more actual PG to play in emergencies (or, IDK, maybe Exum already covers that), put the COMPLETE team through summer off-season, training camp and preseason team bonding, and I think you have a real, live contender. I really do.
Um....
I guess I'm dumb, but I'd say the current team looks pretty close to real, live contention. Not sure what would have to happen for them to look better or qualify more for that criteria.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Luka77 - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 01:39 PM)RGP1981 Wrote: A coupla pages ago, someone mentioned Anfernee Simons. I've been thinking about that... and although I like the thought behind that idea, I just can't see Anfernee accepting the role of 6th man. Whereas, Coby White might, if the Mavericks can get the Bulls to part with him. He might be swayed by the possibility of being Kyrie's replacement in the future, a couple of years away, and a bigger contract on a winning team. As a bonus to the Mavericks, Coby is 2 inches taller and a year younger than Anfernee, and on a cheaper contract.
Starting 5:
- Kyrie, DJJ/Green, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
Subbing in for Kyrie:
- Coby, DJJ/Green, Luka, PJW, Lively/Gafford
Subbing in for Luka:
- Kyrie, Coby, DJJ, PJW, Lively/Gafford
I brought up the idea and have said I like Coby or Sexton in this role as well.
I think the key thing to remember with Anfernee accepting the role is one it wouldn't really affect his overall minutes and second he and Luka share the same agent so his desires will be expressed before any trade.
During championship runs players will usually sacrifice something. In a couple of years (and hopefully several chamionship runs) maybe its Kyrie thats coming of the bench and Anfernee starting.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - DallasMaverick - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 06:01 PM)Luka77 Wrote: I brought up the idea and have said I like Coby or Sexton in this role as well.
I think the key thing to remember with Anfernee accepting the role is one it wouldn't really affect his overall minutes and second he and Luka share the same agent so his desires will be expressed before any trade.
During championship runs players will usually sacrifice something. In a couple of years (and hopefully several chamionship runs) maybe its Kyrie thats coming of the bench and Anfernee starting.
Sorta seems more likely we’d get a ring-chasing vet at the tail end of his career. Like Peja?
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - KillerLeft - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 05:39 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Um....
I guess I'm dumb, but I'd say the current team looks pretty close to real, live contention. Not sure what would have to happen for them to look better or qualify more for that criteria.
Yeah, sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant a start to finish, not sneaking up on anyone type of contender.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - F Gump - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 05:39 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: Um....
I guess I'm dumb, but I'd say the current team looks pretty close to real, live contention. Not sure what would have to happen for them to look better or qualify more for that criteria.
You are correct. They can win a title this year. They are good enough. It's just a matter of doing it, winning games they can win.
They have the right players in place, players who can impact both ends, playing at a very high level. They only need to find a way to win 5 games. Preferably the next 5.
Let me add - I think the Mavs can play better. Much better, in fact. We have seen one aspect of their strengths working well, or another, but not in the same game.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - windjc - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 06:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant a start to finish, not sneaking up on anyone type of contender.
I'm sorry but there is no "sneak on anyone type of contender." You just made that up in your head. Dallas was the best team in the NBA and best defense in the NBA in the last 25% of the season.
Just because no one knew how good they were doesn't matter. The Clippers, OK and Minnesota all played a hard as they could. And all died. Boston next.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - KillerLeft - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 07:03 PM)windjc Wrote: I'm sorry but there is no "sneak on anyone type of contender." You just made that up in your head. Dallas was the best team in the NBA and best defense in the NBA in the last 25% of the season.
Just because no one knew how good they were doesn't matter. The Clippers, OK and Minnesota all played a hard as they could. And all died. Boston next.
I didn’t make it up, you defined it right there, quite nicely!
You sure have popped up and aggressively poked everybody in the eye a ton this past week. Where were you all season, my guy? I’m starting to think you’re just around to pick fights.
Where were you even in the first round? You weren’t calling everyone stupid then.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - Scott41theMavs - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 07:03 PM)windjc Wrote: I'm sorry but there is no "sneak on anyone type of contender." You just made that up in your head. Dallas was the best team in the NBA and best defense in the NBA in the last 25% of the season.
Just because no one knew how good they were doesn't matter. The Clippers, OK and Minnesota all played a hard as they could. And all died. Boston next.
Minnesota aren't dead until they're dead.
RE: Trade & FA 2023-24: PHX Wants Lebron+Bronny| Jazz to Shop Collins - windjc - 05-27-2024
KillerLeft
“I didn’t make it up, you defined it right there, quite nicely!
You sure have popped up and aggressively poked everybody in the eye a ton this past week. Where were you all season, my guy? I’m starting to think you’re just around to pick fights.
Where were you even in the first round? You weren’t calling everyone stupid then.”
I didn’t call you stupid. I said you made some shiznet up as if it matters in someway and it doesn’t because it’s made up.
Dallas is contending as is. If they keep the roster as is they will by definition be contenders next year. They don’t need to add anyone to achieve that.