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+--- Thread: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS SELECT COOPER FLAGG (/showthread.php?tid=3539)
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - F Gump - 06-11-2025
(06-11-2025, 07:33 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I would love to see the Mavs find a way to get Clayton.
I think he could become a Jason Terry type player for us. Lightning quick, super athletic and has unlimited range.
Also a winner and a perfect player to develop with Flagg even though he is 5 years older.
I've also wondered about Clayton. His value would be in his shooting, at least on paper,, which is very good --- but lots of doubts about his athletic weaknesses (small, not much length, not a lot of lift, doesn't finish well at the rum) which might negate his ability to get shots and provide any value. I think his upside comp player is JJB (which is certainly of value, if he can get there) not Brunson or Nash. But his downside comp is someone like Trey Burke, or Larkin.
In the best case, I would NOT expect him to be more useful than B Williams this season, and maybe season 2 as well, so does he have enough upside that he's worth the investment and payroll hit of a multi-year guarantee that starts at about double the normal minimums? I'm not sure.
His shooting is intriguing. Then again, it takes way more than that as acclaimed shooters like Hield and Fredette, to name a couple, even THJ Jr, have shown us.
I do wonder if there's a year 3 guy who has been developing in GL and Euro etc, who might have more usefulness now after having gone through some hard pro work, and could be put into a 2-way slot. Those guys are out there and get found every so often. Pat Bev comes to mind. JJB by about year 3 was another. There have been more. Thats who they really need, if they have the ability to find him.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - ballsrchr - 06-11-2025
(06-11-2025, 09:36 AM)F Gump Wrote: I do wonder if there's a year 3 guy who has been developing in GL and Euro etc, who might have more usefulness now after having gone through some hard pro work, and could be put into a 2-way slot. Those guys are out there and get found every so often. Pat Bev comes to mind. JJB by about year 3 was another. There have been more. Thats who they really need, if they have the ability to find him.
This. This!...is what the scouts and Mavs...brain trust--I have a hard time saying "brain trust" with the current Mavs management. But anyway...a good scouting department should find a gem, or nugget, in the gravel every once in awhile. Donnie Nelson and his little group of scouts seemed to be pretty good at this.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - SleepingHero - 06-12-2025
Evan Sidery
@esidery
Rival executives believe the Pelicans are aggressively trying to trade up from No. 7 overall for Ace Bailey, per @KevinOConnorNBA (https://t.co/FFfO6gMZWG).
New Orleans’ new President of Basketball Operations, Joe Dumars, is attempting to pair Bailey alongside Zion Williamson.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - SleepingHero - 06-12-2025
@KevinOConnorNBA
“No matter what the Spurs are signaling ahead of the draft, I’m not convinced taking Dylan Harper is Plan A”
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Smitty - 06-12-2025
BREAKING: The Sixers have engaged with the San Antonio Spurs about potentially moving up to the No. 2 pick, per @MikeAScotto
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - DL2RimRocker - 06-12-2025
(06-11-2025, 09:36 AM)F Gump Wrote: I've also wondered about Clayton. His value would be in his shooting, at least on paper,, which is very good --- but lots of doubts about his athletic weaknesses (small, not much length, not a lot of lift, doesn't finish well at the rum) which might negate his ability to get shots and provide any value. I think his upside comp player is JJB (which is certainly of value, if he can get there) not Brunson or Nash. But his downside comp is someone like Trey Burke, or Larkin.
In the best case, I would NOT expect him to be more useful than B Williams this season, and maybe season 2 as well, so does he have enough upside that he's worth the investment and payroll hit of a multi-year guarantee that starts at about double the normal minimums? I'm not sure.
His shooting is intriguing. Then again, it takes way more than that as acclaimed shooters like Hield and Fredette, to name a couple, even THJ Jr, have shown us.
I do wonder if there's a year 3 guy who has been developing in GL and Euro etc, who might have more usefulness now after having gone through some hard pro work, and could be put into a 2-way slot. Those guys are out there and get found every so often. Pat Bev comes to mind. JJB by about year 3 was another. There have been more. Thats who they really need, if they have the ability to find him.
I think Clayton is pretty athletic and has decent hops (37" vertical). He reminds me of JET in that regard because both have athleticism but don't flaunt it because their shooting ability is their obvious strengths.
Clayton seems to have better handles and could become a good backup PG his rookie season imo.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - F Gump - 06-12-2025
The issues that raise red flags for me re Clayton are these.
At the college level, the level of size and athleticism is much lower. Clayton is small with a short wingspan.
There, he was only able to finish at the rim at 54%. That's a fairly mediocre result, and to me a warning that he's got a good likelihood to have issues in the NBA. If you can't finish shots, then there's no way to keep defenses honest.
That also impacts ability to make assists off the drive (also fairly weak numbers in NCAA) and to draw fouls for easy points (not good rate in NCAA, even more so in light of how much he shot). He's good at shooting the FTs but doesn't draw fouls.
It's what derailed Larkin and made him worthless.
The ability to jump doesn't matter if you can't translate it into getting easy shots off in a way you can make them routinely.
That ^ is why I would be leery. I dont think an ability to shoot, by itself, would overcome those issues. I don’t know if he will be able to be better in those areas in NBA than he has been in NCAA, and that would HAVE TO happen for him to be useful.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - DL2RimRocker - 06-12-2025
(06-12-2025, 02:28 PM)F Gump Wrote: The issues that raise red flags for me re Clayton are these.
At the college level, the level of size and athleticism is much lower. Clayton is small with a short wingspan.
There, he was only able to finish at the rim at 54%. That's a fairly mediocre result, and to me a warning that he's got a good likelihood to have issues in the NBA. If you can't finish shots, then there's no way to keep defenses honest.
That also impacts ability to make assists off the drive (also fairly weak numbers in NCAA) and to draw fouls for easy points (not good rate in NCAA, even more so in light of how much he shot). He's good at shooting the FTs but doesn't draw fouls.
It's what derailed Larkin and made him worthless.
The ability to jump doesn't matter if you can't translate it into getting easy shots off in a way you can make them routinely.
That ^ is why I would be leery. I dont think an ability to shoot, by itself, would overcome those issues. I don’t know if he will be able to be better in those areas in NBA than he has been in NCAA, and that would HAVE TO happen for him to be useful.
The Larkin comparison is valid and I agree it could easily become the same result for Clayton.
He could very easily fall very low in this draft for the reasons you mention and his age, but he is someone I'd like to see the Mavs take a chance on if they can somehow get another pick later in draft.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Winter - 06-13-2025
Nothing about Clayton is very clear except this: He loves to shoot 3-pointers, and he's good at it. He will probably get better.
That may not translate into court time, but I think he has that skill in the bag. His draft status, I think, is wrapped up in his perimeter shooting and the ice in his veins if the Final Four is any indication.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - F Gump - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 05:43 AM)Winter Wrote: Nothing about Clayton is very clear except this: He loves to shoot 3-pointers, and he's good at it. He will probably get better.
That may not translate in court time, but I think he has that skill in the bag.
Yep, very true. Someone making 3's is very useful to have. And Clayton plays on the ball so 'Hey, he can help our need at PG, too.' But as you say, nothing about him - how productive he would be in the NBA - is very clear. I wish it were easy.
IMO whether to take a flyer on him comes down to cost (cost to get a pick, and what salary he would have to be paid) and also to readily available alternatives. Risk/reward.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Chicagojk - 06-13-2025
a few draft rumors that may not be true:
Atlanta is looking to move up with their 13 and 22 for potentially a center. Maluach has been a named mentioned. It is also rumored that Toronto like Malauch at 9, but he could be gone.
There have been several mocks with the sixers trading back. I saw one with Herb Jones as the main piece plus #7. Sam Vecenie from the athletic has the Sixers trading back twice. Winding up with Kon Knueppel.
Here is Nate Duncan and Givony summary that I copied as well
They both thought Kon had star potential and would be at least an average defender given his strength, motor, and off-ball IQ. He could absolutely sneak into the top 5.
Their take on Khaman Maluach was interesting too. Didn’t think he had the athleticism or feel to ever be a top 5 rim protector but believed in his switchability and potential to stretch the floor given his form at the hoop summit. Also said he had a “larger than life” personality that captivates the room (along with VJ Edgecombe) which is cool to hear about.
Duncan is low on VJ and didn’t see star potential from his college film. Givony agreed the college film was disappointing but said he saw star potential in his play with the Bahamas. Givony thinks he might be able to run the point, which changes his outlook a ton for me. Interestingly they both thought his motor was overrated and that he wasn’t there defensively (yet).
They agreed Tre Johnson’s motor and rebounding were pathetic but said he has potential to be an average defender given his overall work ethic and physical tools. They said he does seem to care, in comparison to Cam Thomas who Givony said, from their conversations while he was in college, “did not give a fuck” lol. They expressed concern that Tre’s lack of strength and inability to blow by guys would prevent him from being an offensive superstar.
They liked Fears (Duncan has him #4) but agreed he will be horrible his first 2-3 years in the league. Recommended him for teams looking to tank for AJ Dybantsa or Darryn Peterson. Said he had one of the best handles of any prospect this decade.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Chicagojk - 06-13-2025
couple more measurements came in:
Joan Beringer’s official measurements: 6’11” barefoot, 234.8 lbs with a 7’4½” wingspan and a 9’3” standing reach.
Real Madrid's Hugo González's Impressive Combine Numbers: 6'6¼" (barefoot), 222.7 lbs, 6'10¾" Wingspan, 8'5½" Standing Reach, 9" x 10¼" Hands.
Don't know much about either. Beringer is still 18. Gonzales I guess didn't get much playing time this year but I heard Givony say that he was the highest rated guy on his youth teams. I believe he played with Demin and a few other draftable players.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Nowitzki Way - 06-13-2025
This seems like a great year to have the #1 pick and not have to worry about anything else. We got very lucky as Mavs fans this year.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - DL2RimRocker - 06-14-2025
(06-13-2025, 01:48 PM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: This seems like a great year to have the #1 pick and not have to worry about anything else. We got very lucky as Mavs fans this year.
I'm still holding my breath.
Nico seems like the type that can't do the obvious because it isn't complicated enough for him and it doesn't give him the opportunity to be the smartest guy in the room.
He's also completely cleared this roster of white guys.
These two things concern me about Nico keeping the pick and I'll believe it when I see it.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - F Gump - 06-14-2025
(06-14-2025, 02:37 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I'm still holding my breath.
Nico seems like the type that can't do the obvious because it isn't complicated enough for him and it doesn't give him the opportunity to be the smartest guy in the room.
He's also completely cleared this roster of white guys.
These two things concern me about Nico keeping the pick and I'll believe it when I see it.
I've said this before, and I'll repeat it
1 I don't think NTI has the final say on whether they draft and keep Flagg (in fact, I have to think he's on a fairly short leash from now on),
....To elaborate on point 1, no GM ever has unilateral ability to change the roster on his whims. Every trade, draft pick, waiver, etc must come from the team's governor (Dumont) and is controlled at that level. Obviously a a governor can certainly be persuaded, or easily be approving, and therefore opt to rubber stamp whatever their GM might propose, but NTI should have lost level of trust.
2 I believe that if NTI even proposed they trade Flagg - with the level of further damage to fans and the PR damage and franchise-value damage that would ensue - it would get him fired on the spot. Flagg is the goose that will lay the golden eggs, and he had better build around him accordingly.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Chicagojk - 06-14-2025
This will get teams attention. I believe the second youngest player in the draft. 6’11 with shoes. I thought he was like 6’8
https://x.com/jonchep/status/1933628565888655695?s=46
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Chicagojk - 06-14-2025
(06-14-2025, 02:37 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I'm still holding my breath.
Nico seems like the type that can't do the obvious because it isn't complicated enough for him and it doesn't give him the opportunity to be the smartest guy in the room.
He's also completely cleared this roster of white guys.
These two things concern me about Nico keeping the pick and I'll believe it when I see it.
Mavs website leaked Flagg in a Dallas jersey welcoming him to Dallas. Might be an intern Nico Proofing the decision. Ha
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - ballsrchr - 06-14-2025
(06-14-2025, 02:37 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I'm still holding my breath.
Nico seems like the type that can't do the obvious because it isn't complicated enough for him and it doesn't give him the opportunity to be the smartest guy in the room.
He's also completely cleared this roster of white guys.
These two things concern me about Nico keeping the pick and I'll believe it when I see it.
Me too!
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - FireNicoHarrison - 06-14-2025
(06-07-2025, 10:19 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Espn Kevin Pelton rankings. Sort of different but Mavs certainly are good at grabbing his highest rated guys.
https://archive.ph/2025.05.30-221158/https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/44888875/nba-draft-2025-projecting-30-best-prospects
(06-14-2025, 02:37 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I'm still holding my breath.
Nico seems like the type that can't do the obvious because it isn't complicated enough for him and it doesn't give him the opportunity to be the smartest guy in the room.
He's also completely cleared this roster of white guys.
These two things concern me about Nico keeping the pick and I'll believe it when I see it.
Don't worry my friend, Nico is corrupted but he is not stupid.
Unfortunately he can't trade street clothes because he has to save his face in NBA.
RE: 2025 draft thread: THE MAVS WIN THE 1ST PICK - Chicagojk - 06-14-2025
Rafael Barlow on Locked NBA Big Board: “I’ve heard the Mavs are a team that could be looking to get into the back end of the first round to get a point guard