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+--- Thread: Trade & FA 2025-26: Free Agency Starts 5pm CST/6pm EST (/showthread.php?tid=3856)
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RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 06-13-2025
With all the ideas of Philly with PG going somewhere and AD going somewhere here, I need to comment on any idea that bails out on AD and takes back PG, trying to fix the AD lack of fit and flaws.
Paul George is NOT a solve for swapping AD for a better fit.
Some facts ....
CONTRACT. The contract length for PG is exactly the same. Like AD, PG is getting a massive cap-eating salary, over 50M per year (you do save some money, a few mill this year and it grows a bit year over year, but not enough to be a real difference-maker).
PLAY. AD is a much more productive player.
HEALTH. Most importantly, as much as we despair of AD, PG is not more reliable. PG is 3 years older, and is generally NOT going to be healthy when the playoffs roll around (only 6 games played in the last 4 seasons). When he does play, he has a well-deserved reputation for sucking in the playoffs anyhow. In that same period, the regular season games played by those players is almost a mirror (so much so that it's really weird and makes you wonder why), but in any event you definitely do NOT get a player more available ...
Games played, last 4 seasons (most recent season last)
PG - 31 56 74 51
AD - 40 56 76 51
TRADE VALUE. With that contract PG would be very hard to move. Philly obviously hoped to use him as a trade-matching chip for a star with a massive contract (such as KD or GA) but the albatross nature of that PG contract that runs forever gets in the way. As much as I hate the AD contract, I'd hate PG's 10x as much.
Idle thought on the PHI/SA rumors -- is PHI considering moving off of Maxey (the move from 3 to 2 would be to get Harper to replace Maxey) as one part of a major re-shuffle? Here's my pot-stirring ...
TRADE 1 - Pick 3 + McCain for Pick 2 and maybe modest future draft capital
TRADE 2 - (may have to be done as 2 separate deals to be legal)
To PHX - Maxey and PG (3 more years) and Oubre and maybe modest future draft capital
To PHI - Durant and Beal (2 more years)
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DL2RimRocker - 06-13-2025
I think any trade for PG/#3 pick signals a rebuild strategy.
Obviously Mavs are in win-now mode but it wouldnt bother me at all if they moved AD for PG/#3 simply because I dont think this team has what it takes to win it all, or the right trade assets to get us there unless they are willing to part with the #1 pick.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 03:41 AM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I think any trade for PG/#3 pick signals a rebuild strategy.
Obviously Mavs are in win-now mode but it wouldnt bother me at all if they moved AD for PG/#3 simply because I dont think this team has what it takes to win it all, or the right trade assets to get us there unless they are willing to part with the #1 pick.
I'd much rather just keep AD if that's all that's offered (a part time aged-out player in decline, with an abominable contract that will hamstring your payroll for 3 seasons, and pick 3 in this meh draft -- yuck), and it's not an especially hard decision. That's awful. (To be clear, I want NOTHING to do with PG, under any circumstances.)
But bigger picture, I think the approach of all-or-nothing (ie, we don't have enough to win a title yet, so let's throw everything in the pooper and start from scratch) is just wrong.
Even if NTI's claim that 'The Luka/AD trade made this a championship team' was clearly dolt-level stuff, they do have a significant set of talent. The name of the game is to amass enough talent to win it all, and it's hard to get good talent. Even after the stupid Luka trade, they were way far up the ladder of having what's needed.
From here, every move needs to be designed to get closer to the goal, not start over.
Let's be real. With the addition of Flagg, it closed the door on a teardown. His addition alone pushed them a couple of rungs up that "enough talent to win it all" ladder. This team that really needed another major talent just got one. We have no idea how close they already are.
This is NOT the time to hold a fire sale.
No one has said it yet, so let me be the first - we are already in the Flagg Era for the Mavs, and the clock is ticking already. (It does NOT start in 2 or 3 or 4 years down the road.) Tear it all down NOW, of all times? No way. Don't waste any of it. Figure out how to take THESE pieces, with some tweaks, and play for titles.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 06-13-2025
(06-12-2025, 10:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: I just think this team, as is, needs to be given a shot. What if AD+Flagg are a crazy good duo? What if Flagg+Kyrie+AD work out and are a great core for at least 3 years?
What if that was the idea pitched to Nico, by the league, prior to the Luka trade? Him not knowing what was going to rain down upon him, by the fans, for making that trade, with the fans not having the foreknowledge that Nico had. What if the return from LA had "+Pick #1 in the draft" attached. Does that make the Luka Trade more equitable?
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DanSchwartzgan - 06-13-2025
FWIW, the Locked On Mav’s guys played a clip yesterday from the Locked On Bulls guys saying Daniel Gafford should be Chicago’s number one target. So, they were all about Coby White for Gafford as the core of a deal.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Chicagojk - 06-13-2025
To be up front, I didn't like how AD moved when he returned from injury. I also hated the offense at the end of the year. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt though that health and lack of practice were the two biggest issues for those things.
I don't think AD can be the best player on a championship team. I think the same about a healthy Kyrie. So for me, it boils down to how good (and soon) Flagg can be. Can he be the second best player on the team his second year? If so, if you have three #2's with a deep team can that team be a conender. Could Flagg be your best player in year 3? If so, that could be where AD could rally excel. The concern is that is a few years out and can AD still be close to his current level than?
I don't think the Mavs a contender this year. Too many moving parts. They will also need to balance out the roster some and make some smart moves. A deep team with 3 #2 level players could be interesting. If Cooper is the real deal and jumps ahead of schedule year 2 or 3, than things could get real interesting.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Chicagojk - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 06:02 AM)david75090 Wrote: What if that was the idea pitched to Nico, by the league, prior to the Luka trade? Him not knowing what was going to rain down upon him, by the fans, for making that trade, with the fans not having the foreknowledge that Nico had. What if the return from LA had "+Pick #1 in the draft" attached. Does that make the Luka Trade more equitable?
Nico made a franchise killing mistake, but he may get saved from it. Dallas missing the playoffs was determined by Kyrie injury, AD injury, Gafford injury, etc. If they were healthy, they may have escaped the playin. But they were set for a really difficult path. I probably would have ranked them in the bottom 3-4 in the West moving forward as teams with positive futures. They would have been lumped probably right above the Suns for me. Flagg gave them a lifeline, if he is the real deal. Although, that trade was a franchise killing mistake. Don't let lottery luck gloss over what he did to the franchise both on the court and with the fans. The aftermath may have even been worse too...and that is saying something.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 07:10 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I don't think the Mavs a contender this year. Too many moving parts. They will also need to balance out the roster some and make some smart moves. A deep team with 3 #2 level players could be interesting. If Cooper is the real deal and jumps ahead of schedule year 2 or 3, than things could get real interesting.
Yep. Perhaps they can't be a top contender this year, but imo they need to work to improve and see where that can get them, because it's a process.
Their starting point, to get experience and develop what they can be, began in Feb. It was a major reset of sorts -- the whole style, and roster needs, completely changed when Luka was traded. The addition of Flagg in some ways was another restart point.
It will obviously take some time to figure it out. Then develop and tweak. And who knows how far along they already are.
I think they have a huge pile of good talent already, and it's just a task of figuring it out. Flagg's major upside is the x factor that makes the ceiling really high.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 07:14 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Nico made a franchise killing mistake, but he may get saved from it. Dallas missing the playoffs was determined by Kyrie injury, AD injury, Gafford injury, etc. If they were healthy, they may have escaped the playin. But they were set for a really difficult path. I probably would have ranked them in the bottom 3-4 in the West moving forward as teams with positive futures. They would have been lumped probably right above the Suns for me. Flagg gave them a lifeline, if he is the real deal. Although, that trade was a franchise killing mistake. Don't let lottery luck gloss over what he did to the franchise both on the court and with the fans. The aftermath may have even been worse too...and that is saying something.
The Trade made no sense to me. Almost to the point of mental illness from a GM. Before the trade, I considered Nico to be competent. After, I've been trying to make sense of it. How does a competent GM make that trade without there being more to it? A competent GM HAD to have wanted more in return. Adding the Number 1 pick in the draft almost evens the trade, but would need to foretell the Kyrie injury and the AD injury to insure the Mavs would be in the lottery, for the fix to work. Too many moving parts. Meaning, fire Nico, NOW.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - SleepingHero - 06-13-2025
@Fullcourtpass
Russell Westbrook is declining his player option for next season to become an unrestricted free agent, per
@TheSteinLine
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 09:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: @Fullcourtpass
Russell Westbrook is declining his player option for next season to become an unrestricted free agent, per
@TheSteinLine
That was predictable. He'll do another 1+1 with someone, perhaps Denver.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Smitty - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 09:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: @Fullcourtpass
Russell Westbrook is declining his player option for next season to become an unrestricted free agent, per
@TheSteinLine
I don’t know if I hate the idea of Russ here or not..
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Chicagojk - 06-13-2025
The Suns insider said he expects KD to be traded next week. I would assume this probably leads to believe teams thinks Giannis will not ask out this summer. I thought that would be the first thing to drop before other trades happen.
KD can be traded to any team, but the thought process is PHX would get more if he is willing to extend to the team trading for him. I have seen Jabari Smith and Jalen Green plus pick as a potential trade to Houston. Some PHX fans thought they could route Green to another team for a center.
So they were hoping for Smith, maybe the 10th pick and move Green for a center like Claxton as a potential package for KD.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - FireNicoHarrison - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 05:24 AM)F Gump Wrote: I'd much rather just keep AD if that's all that's offered (a part time aged-out player in decline, with an abominable contract that will hamstring your payroll for 3 seasons, and pick 3 in this meh draft -- yuck), and it's not an especially hard decision. That's awful. (To be clear, I want NOTHING to do with PG, under any circumstances.)
But bigger picture, I think the approach of all-or-nothing (ie, we don't have enough to win a title yet, so let's throw everything in the pooper and start from scratch) is just wrong.
Even if NTI's claim that 'The Luka/AD trade made this a championship team' was clearly dolt-level stuff, they do have a significant set of talent. The name of the game is to amass enough talent to win it all, and it's hard to get good talent. Even after the stupid Luka trade, they were way far up the ladder of having what's needed.
From here, every move needs to be designed to get closer to the goal, not start over.
Let's be real. With the addition of Flagg, it closed the door on a teardown. His addition alone pushed them a couple of rungs up that "enough talent to win it all" ladder. This team that really needed another major talent just got one. We have no idea how close they already are.
This is NOT the time to hold a fire sale.
No one has said it yet, so let me be the first - we are already in the Flagg Era for the Mavs, and the clock is ticking already. (It does NOT start in 2 or 3 or 4 years down the road.) Tear it all down NOW, of all times? No way. Don't waste any of it. Figure out how to take THESE pieces, with some tweaks, and play for titles.
Agree.
We have to trade street clothes but not to dump him like Doncic.
Sell high and don't worry.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - cow - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 10:26 AM)FireNicoHarrison Wrote: Agree.
We have to trade street clothes but not to dump him like Doncic.
Sell high and don't worry.
Well if they love someone who will be there at #3, you'd obviously get more compensation than just the #3 based on PG13's decline and his contract. He's probably as big of an injury risk as AD at this point, but AD is a much better player even before PG13's statistical decline. That is if you had a competent negotiator, which we don't. And while we don't have a competent negotiator, it really doesn't matter as Nico's wagon is hitched to AD.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Mavs2021 - 06-13-2025
Some of you just never learn. All back on the old and washed Cuban bandwagon.
Here is some news for you.
NBA finals:
23/31
24/25
26/29
26/25
21/25
27/22
31/27
26/23
That´s the rotation of the two best teams in the NBA. Two players are over 30 (one of which is low-mileage Caruso).
None are as old as Kyrie/AD/Klay right now and you look for more veterans. Hilarious.
You know why the Mavs were in the NBA finals last year? Cause they had this exact age structure with Kyrie being the 31 year old.
That is the conference finals teams:
28/37
27/23
28/24
29/30
27/32
30/25
24/26
28/28
Old is dead in the NBA.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - numnuts23 - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 12:05 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Some of you just never learn. All back on the old and washed Cuban bandwagon.
Here is some news for you.
NBA finals:
23/31
24/25
26/29
26/25
21/25
27/22
31/27
26/23
That´s the rotation of the two best teams in the NBA. Two players are over 30 (one of which is low-mileage Caruso).
None are as old as Kyrie/AD/Klay right now and you look for more veterans. Hilarious.
You know why the Mavs were in the NBA finals last year? Cause they had this exact age structure with Kyrie being the 31 year old.
28/37
27/23
28/24
29/30
27/32
30/25
24/26
28/28
Now do the
21-22 Warriors
20-21 Bucks
19-20 Lakers
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DL2RimRocker - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 05:24 AM)F Gump Wrote: I'd much rather just keep AD if that's all that's offered (a part time aged-out player in decline, with an abominable contract that will hamstring your payroll for 3 seasons, and pick 3 in this meh draft -- yuck), and it's not an especially hard decision. That's awful. (To be clear, I want NOTHING to do with PG, under any circumstances.)
But bigger picture, I think the approach of all-or-nothing (ie, we don't have enough to win a title yet, so let's throw everything in the pooper and start from scratch) is just wrong.
Even if NTI's claim that 'The Luka/AD trade made this a championship team' was clearly dolt-level stuff, they do have a significant set of talent. The name of the game is to amass enough talent to win it all, and it's hard to get good talent. Even after the stupid Luka trade, they were way far up the ladder of having what's needed.
From here, every move needs to be designed to get closer to the goal, not start over.
Let's be real. With the addition of Flagg, it closed the door on a teardown. His addition alone pushed them a couple of rungs up that "enough talent to win it all" ladder. This team that really needed another major talent just got one. We have no idea how close they already are.
This is NOT the time to hold a fire sale.
No one has said it yet, so let me be the first - we are already in the Flagg Era for the Mavs, and the clock is ticking already. (It does NOT start in 2 or 3 or 4 years down the road.) Tear it all down NOW, of all times? No way. Don't waste any of it. Figure out how to take THESE pieces, with some tweaks, and play for titles.
I wish I shared your same optimism.
If AD gives us 50 games next season I'll be ecstatic.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Winter - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 01:13 PM)DL2RimRocker Wrote: I wish I shared your same optimism.
If AD gives us 50 games next season I'll be ecstatic.
AD has played 50 games most years - nearly all of them. But that body is going to be harder to manage now. There's no telling about him.
While most big men have a lot of trouble staying healthy, two of the best big men ever - Wilt and Kareem - played 70-80 nearly every single season, Both of them I think had multiple seasons with at least 80 games.
I don't know how Wilt did it. He played Volleyball several years after basketball. I think he had only one season where he had a serious injury (when he was 33) then he played 3 straight 82 game seasons after that. That guy was freak of nature.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - RasheedsBigWhiteSpot - 06-13-2025
(06-13-2025, 05:24 AM)F Gump Wrote: From here, every move needs to be designed to get closer to the goal, not start over.
Let's be real. With the addition of Flagg, it closed the door on a teardown. His addition alone pushed them a couple of rungs up that "enough talent to win it all" ladder. This team that really needed another major talent just got one. We have no idea how close they already are.
This is NOT the time to hold a fire sale.
No one has said it yet, so let me be the first - we are already in the Flagg Era for the Mavs, and the clock is ticking already. (It does NOT start in 2 or 3 or 4 years down the road.) Tear it all down NOW, of all times? No way. Don't waste any of it. Figure out how to take THESE pieces, with some tweaks, and play for titles.
Yes, Gump, ON PAPER, AD/Kyrie/Flagg is a formidable trio. But one ALWAYS misses at least a third of the season. Another is coming off a major knee surgery and is in his 30s. And the third, no matter how good he is or will be, will still be an 18yo rookie facing growing pains. If all three were at tip-top level, sure, go for it this season. But they're not.
And if the Mavs had all their draft capital, I'd say, sure, play it out and if this season or next doesn't work, retool around Flagg by trading your future picks. But they don't have any in abundance. So if AD inevitably gets injured, then what? Am I advocating for the AD for PG and #3 trade? Definitely not. But there's a middle ground to finding someone younger or more dependable than AD. Again, I LOVE the IDEA of AD, but not the pragmatic reality.
I'd much rather trade him for something that aligns with more than a 2 year window, especially if him not being here helps the Mavs afford to keep usable pieces like PJ and Gafford on movable contracts.
So give me Flagg, Kyrie, PJ, Gafford and the something that comes back for AD instead of...
Flagg, AD, Kyrie and the two role players or mid-round 1sts that come back for PJ and Gaff.
Plus, i think PJ and Gafford are more valuable here than what you'd conceivably get back in trades.