(05-28-2025, 08:01 PM)YaBoyAplus Wrote: It looks like we can only afford one of Gafford or PJ and I'd rather keep PJ. If we can use Gaffords salary to get Sexton I'd be up for that. He's now a good 3pt shooter and one of the best PG defenders in the NBA. Send Gafford to ATL, and peices from us n ATL to Utah

(05-29-2025, 02:56 AM)F Gump Wrote: YOU, of all people, would rather have AD than KD? Wow, never saw THAT reaction coming.

To my way of thinking, the bad deal for AD is done, and it's a sunk cost now. Can't go back and remake it. And no wisdom in valuing AD by what you paid, rather than what he's really worth. 

If we think he's valuable and is the best answer to make this team better, by all means keep him, but keeping him doesn't repair or undo or make better the Luka lunacy by NTI.

I think he has good value as a player, but his bad fit (in the context of the rest of the roster) makes his value much lower in Dallas. So I'd much rather change him into some other good value player or players while we can, and before we move down the road of remaking the roster (by getting rid of valuable players on well-priced contracts who want to be here) to make the fit better.

(05-29-2025, 07:01 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I have been thinking about potential three team trades with Gafford and a guy like Sexton or Simons.    I think Simons is going to cost more than Sexton.    The scary thought is Nico vs Ainge in trade deiscions.  That could get ugly.

(05-29-2025, 08:17 AM)FireNicoHarrison Wrote: It was not about AD over KD as a player...but yes, probably AD is better than KD right now IMHO.

However i prefer AD because we can trade him higher than KD, the win now mode is done after Luka trade and Irving injury.

If that Harrison still wants to go on with that foolish plan to win next year then i agree with you, KD is a better fit that AD for this squad.

Unfortunately a hypothetical AD trade will always be compared to what we got for him so i don't think Harrison is so fool to trade him. No way.

(05-29-2025, 08:18 AM)FireNicoHarrison Wrote: I don't like them, volume scorers and no defense...

(05-29-2025, 01:19 PM)michaeltex Wrote: From an article by Ricky O'Donnell(?) on SB Nation...

"I think I’ve settled in to believing this class is slightly stronger than the average draft class overall, in part because Cooper Flagg is stronger than the average No. 1 overall pick. After so many defections over the last few days, though, there’s no doubt this draft is underwhelming after the first 20 or 25 picks."

Unless it's a high pick, trading high performing talent like PJ or Gaff (or AD?) for draft capital in this year's draft doesn't look like a winner. 

Also sounds like some 2nd round talent will be getting guaranteed money.

(05-30-2025, 01:09 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Yeah I am pretty shocked that like 8 prospects have elected to return. 

It certainly changes the perceived worth of a late FRP. And Gafford/PJ are worth WAY WAY more than any of those. Even multiple. I'd wager Gafford could probably fetch a top 12 pick truthfully. The question is, is there even anyone there? Maluach seems kind of interesting to be honest.

(05-30-2025, 02:20 AM)F Gump Wrote: I have been trying to tell all you guys this about this draft. The problem with the thinness of the overall talent AND of the depth in higher-quality prospects makes it harder (and much less likely) to find a player worth the hassle.

But that creates another issue, and in today's NBA, it's very relevant.

With the players that are left sliding upwards in where they will be picked (even though they are the same player), you're now getting way less bang for your buck on that guaranteed contract. IOW, you will get a player who in another year would be a semi-dice-roll of a pick at 20, but this year the team at 10 is picking him because he's the best player left on their board. At 20, he's a guaranteed 3.66M hit to your cap (which itself makes a pretty big ~15M total hit to your cap over the next 4 years), but now at 10 for the same player someone is paying 6.02M, almost double, for that dice roll on the same kid. In a hard cap world, it's the money at the margins that make you or break you in roster building, because you never have enough. And who wants to be paying 6M to try to develop a raw kid who is going to be very iffy to even ever make the rotation?

The value player in this draft - potential of the player vs the cost of the contract - will be Flagg. He's worth it, easily, and it's not even close to being a question. After Flagg, however, MAYBE (but not surely) there are a few more slots that are worth that risk-reward, but I'm not so sure. Even Harper (expected pick 2) is a monster commitment (starting at 12.4M, and totals 56+M over 4 years) that will gouge a huge chunk out of a team's hard cap for a player who isn't a great athlete (which lowers his ceiling considerably) -- and he is thought to be the best of the lot after Flagg.

As someone wrote, the mere presence of Flagg (who is off the charts compared to the rest) is what makes this draft. 

But only 1 team gets that prize, and then the rest of it, from some point on down, it's not that great to be a part of. Buying back in? Ugh no. Using really good talent to get one of those picks? Huge mistake and a tremendous waste of hard-to-get talent imo. And btw, a trade that lands you TWO of these bad things isn't somehow making the equation better - that's even worse.

(05-30-2025, 02:32 AM)Jmaciscool Wrote: So it seems like if the draft is weak/shallow then first round picks in a certain range could actually be viewed as a negative asset?

(05-30-2025, 02:36 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: I'd offer OKC the 2031 pick (top 4 protected) for #15 and #24. OKC has too many players/picks already. They´ll start moving picks into the future again and the Mavs need to add a few players on Flagg's timeline. 

Demin is a scary pick, when you just p***** away Luka and the expectations on a tall white Eastern European passing savant, that can´t shoot, become insurmountable. All the weight of the world would have been on him thanks to the DMF in charge. Wiith Flagg arriving, you are now taking a punt on a high ceiling prospect, if he ever learns how to shoot. Unlikely he makes it to #15, then take Traore, who will fall, cause everybody is scared he is the next Hayes. Take Clatyon Jr. at #24, who should be somewhat ready. Then you get Simons or Sexton and you good to go.

(05-30-2025, 03:54 AM)F Gump Wrote: What an AWFUL deal for the Mavs ...
... clogging an already-full roster with overpriced projects for no good reason,
... burying themselves in 2nd Apron hell with an added 8M in useless salary,
... helping OKC out, who is currently stuck with adding sizable useless guaranteed contracts on crappy picks that will clog their already-full roster,
... gifting OKC a potentially excellent future asset.
Ugh. HARD PASS.

To help Flagg, the Mavs need to use their money on GOOD players at GOOD prices, who are already ready to contribute. Wait, they already have those. Just have to work out how to keep them and build around the edges, and/or swap one for a similarly talented, ready-to-contribute, modestly priced player.

(05-30-2025, 06:11 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: You see the irony in calling two draft picks useless salary and crappy, but then praising a draft pick as an excellent asset for OKC two lines later, right?

You also talk a lot of sh*t about Nico for somebody that tries to bury the Mavs with more old and injured people like Lonzo and CP3. All that will do for the Mavs is add more useless and crappy salary from a high lottery pick in 2025 or is it an excellent asset. I´m so confused.

(05-30-2025, 08:11 AM)david75090 Wrote: If I'm getting this, what is being talked about is the guaranteed money due the 1st round picks. With the assumption that, this year, those picks later in the 1st round aren't worthy of guaranteed money and guaranteed roster spots. Saying the farther down in the draft, the less worthy. Right now, OKC has two draft picks in that category. Should the Mavs relieve OKC of those picks and give OKC one pick in a later draft when that pick is more desirable, the Mavs would be assuming OKC's burden. 2 less desirables for 1 Maybe, later.

The question is, is this draft, farther down, REALLY that bad, or is that just opinion. We know from past experience UDFAs can be NBA players. What the Mavs need is a REALLY good talent evaluator.

(05-30-2025, 09:26 AM)michaeltex Wrote: Certainly the guaranteed money is a big factor because it is part of the CBA and can't be avoided. With so many college players choosing to skip this year's draft in favor of getting NIL $$ and having another year of big timing it around campus, it has created a vacuum that moves some players into higher drafted positions which makes teams spend more $$ on riskier investments. It is documented that the level of contribution is well correlated with draft position. The effect moves original 2nd round (non-guaranteed) players into 1st round (guaranteed) slots and will move some originally UDFAs into 2nd round slots. It would be like having to sign DP into a MLE contract.

Better minds than mine are needed to understand the rookie scale, but #10 pick is currently at ~$5.01M for the rookie season, but can be paid as high as ~$6.01M or as low as ~$4.01M. I think most will get the max amount, IIUC. With the 1st two years guaranteed and a mandated 5% raise from year 1 to year 2.

Hypothetical question:

In the first round, each team has 15 minutes to make their selection. If they fail to make the selection, the the next team can make theirs instead. So my question is, if Team A is picking at, say #10, but doesn't feel like the available players are worthy of that level of investment and they delay to let the next team go ahead of them, do they still have to pay #10 level money or do they get the savings between #10 and #11, about $300k/year? Would it be possible to drift down even further until they felt the player and the salary were more in line with the value?

(05-30-2025, 06:11 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: 1 You see the irony in calling two draft picks useless salary and crappy, but then praising a draft pick as an excellent asset for OKC two lines later, right?

2  You also talk a lot of sh*t about Nico for somebody that

3 tries to bury the Mavs with more old and injured people like Lonzo and CP3. All that will do for the Mavs is add more useless and crappy salary from a high lottery pick in 2025 or is it an excellent asset. I´m so confused.