(05-16-2024, 02:04 PM)michaeltex Wrote: Wasn't he injured late in the season? Seems like he's never been fully right since the injury layoff.

(05-16-2024, 12:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Absolutely!

It's tough, because SGA is so quick and fast that it helps to have someone like Green on him to slow the Thunder down in transition. But yes, in the half court, no matter how "well" Green plays, defensively, even when he doesn't get beat or fall for any of the moves/counter moves AT ALL and the possession ends with a GREAT contest from Green, it doesn't seem to matter. SGA just drains the shot as if he's not there. Mavs2021 has been mentioning this often, comparing Green's defense to Dwight Powell's, in that it's almost always sound but too often ineffective. I'm starting to feel the same way, at least in this matchup. 

DJJ is about perfect to defend SGA, but even PJ, who you'd think wouldn't be quick enough, bothers him way, way more than Green does. I'm finding that more and more fascinating as the series goes on. 

And yet Green does have some obvious utility with his energy. He's the most likely on the team to sneak up as a help defender and swipe the ball away. He's the most likely to get to a loose ball. He's the most consistent in terms of playing at top speed through all of his minutes (though not long minutes, relatively)...I'm not sure what it all means, because I think our collective belief in him around here was built on the idea that he is to be a great defender, and as I sit here today, I just don't think he'll ever be that, exactly. And now that his catch and shoot game has completely abandoned him (temporary, I hope), I don't know what to think. He was becoming one of the better catch and shoot guys on the team, but right now the Thunder are treating him like Giddey, and they're right to do so. 

Part of me thinks that more minutes would help him get into some sort of rhythm, but the other part wonders if he contributes enough to warrant someone else's minutes decreasing. All of this within the context of that extension (that seemed like a bargain when he signed it) and I'm not sure where to go from here.

(05-16-2024, 03:30 PM)mvossman Wrote: He was shooting over 40% in this series before last nights game.  

(05-16-2024, 02:02 PM)michaeltex Wrote: …

Saw where OKC's coach commented on how he felt their offense was "positive" and that they just missed on open shots. Not sure if he really feels that way or if he's just whistling in the dark to keep his team from panicking before Game 6.

(05-16-2024, 05:30 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: My semi-annual reminder that our beloved Dorian Finney-Smith was the same age, 23, in his Rookie Season as our much maligned Josh Green is now. I remember at one time it was that Josh would never be a legit 3 point shooter. And he’s 40% and 38.5 last two years. Settle down people. Josh’s best basketball is still ahead of him. He’s still probably 4-5 years away from his prime.

(05-16-2024, 05:46 PM)Winter Wrote: If I read you right, you're comparing a rookie DFS to a Josh Green who has been playing in the NBA for 4 years without comparable movement. I'm not entirely sure that's worth remembering.

Josh Green is a decent rotation player, and I do expect he will be better in 4-5 years, but if his trend line is constant he'll only be a slightly better rotation player.

(05-16-2024, 07:01 PM)The Jom Wrote: Over the course of those years, Josh has dramatically improved his 3-point shooting and ability to defend without fouling. If playing ineffective D against Shai is his crime, I submit it’s a misdemeanor, not a felony.

(05-16-2024, 07:01 PM)The Jom Wrote: Over the course of those years, Josh has dramatically improved his 3-point shooting and ability to defend without fouling. If playing ineffective D against Shai is his crime, I submit it’s a misdemeanor, not a felony.

(05-16-2024, 05:30 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: My semi-annual reminder that our beloved Dorian Finney-Smith was the same age, 23, in his Rookie Season as our much maligned Josh Green is now. I remember at one time it was that Josh would never be a legit 3 point shooter. And he’s 40% and 38.5 last two years. Settle down people. Josh’s best basketball is still ahead of him. He’s still probably 4-5 years away from his prime.

(05-16-2024, 09:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is true, and yet…there’s just something about him that always leaves me wanting. I can’t really explain it.

(05-16-2024, 10:20 PM)The Jom Wrote: Me: “Over the course of those years, Josh has dramatically improved his 3-point shot.”

You: “Well that’s not really true is it?”

Josh 3P% by year (season ending)
21: 16.0%
22: 35.9%
23: 40.2%
24: 38.5%

Call it what you want.

(05-16-2024, 09:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: This is true, and yet…there’s just something about him that always leaves me wanting. I can’t really explain it.

(05-16-2024, 09:02 PM)Winter Wrote: Well that's not really true is it? He hasn't drastically improved his 3-point shot. It's a little worse this year statistically than last. But I think maybe that's to be expected since there's a slightly higher volume this year. Most of his stats are about the same as last year, some slightly worse than last year. And that's probably who he is going forward.

Josh is fine, really, and those aren't bad numbers. He's a perfectly decent rotation player even if he's inconsistent. But I submit to you the Josh Green fan club suffers from unrealistic expectations in my opinion. I personally think he gets talked about in a way that makes it seem he has more value than he actually has. His 3-point percentage gets talked about a lot, but he's not an eager scorer in any other way outside of the corner 3 (where he is mostly relegated in this offense). Personally, I like his energy and his ability to close out on perimeter players, and of course his corner 3 percentage. He's a good guy and seems hard working, but I don't suspect his peak stats will be dramatically different from his current numbers.

He has value, but my guess is that he may get traded for a more veteran offensive player (or playmaker). I suspect what peak he has will most likely be with another team.

(05-16-2024, 05:46 PM)Winter Wrote: If I read you right, you're comparing a rookie DFS to a Josh Green who has been playing in the NBA for 4 years without comparable movement. I'm not entirely sure that's worth remembering.

Josh Green is a decent rotation player, and I do expect he will be better in 4-5 years, but if his trend line is constant he'll only be a slightly better rotation player.

(05-17-2024, 12:35 AM)mvossman Wrote: Are you sure its not comparable movement?  Actually Josh improved significantly more across his first three seasons than Dorian did.

DFS points/gm:  4.3  5.9  7.5
Josh points/gm: 2.6  4.8  9.1

DFS TS%:  49  48  53
Josh TS%: 49  58  65

DFS took his big step in his 4th season at age 26.  Josh took a small step back in his forth season at age 23.  There is still plenty of room for growth.  Dorian was always the better defender.  I had hopes that Josh would take a bigger jump defensively at some point, but it hasn't happened yet.  As someone mentioned above, growth is not linear as both these players have shown, and being so young there is reason to hope Josh has another jump in him before he peaks.

(05-17-2024, 09:31 AM)michaeltex Wrote: I think Green is has been somewhat static the last two years, but that's not a bad thing. He continues to bring energy and hustle whenever he's on the court. Defense may not be ALL NBA, but you can't criticize the effort. His shooting % has improved, but I agree he doesn't always read the situation properly and assert himself when necessary.

In his defense, he's a role player on a team that has had a LOT of roster massage the last season and a half. Look at the roster just before the 2023 TDL and look at it today. Luka, Josh, DP and THJ are all that's left and DP rarely sees the floor now while THJ may be wearing out his welcome (despite the positive support from Kyrie). Josh isn't a wave maker, so he's content to keep doing Josh and try to fit in with the changing team dynamics. He doesn't necessarily shine most nights, but he's brings a nice consistency as this team grows together.