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+--- Thread: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP (/showthread.php?tid=891)
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - Chicagojk - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 08:23 AM)HanspardShowerVoice Wrote: Yeah, it's pretty remarkable to see the guy who I thought of as the Duke Spoiled Rich Kid poster boy become this beloved and respected NBA vet. His podcast on The Ringer where he interviews NBA players is pretty good, because he obviously has their respect enough to open up and not just give cliched jock-speak. The one with Jimmy Butler and his falling out in Philly was really good. Butler was really speaking candidly with Redick, and I don't think he suffers fools lightly.
Yeah, he actually started his own production company and is no longer with the Ringer.
The Duke Spoiled Rich kid is funny too. I understand what you are saying, but I believe Redick family background isnt anything near being Rich. Christian Laettner and Bobby Hurley also had that tag and they were far from rich families as well. But I understand your point. Sometimes perception is reality.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - HanspardShowerVoice - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 08:29 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Yeah, he actually started his own production company and is no longer with the Ringer.
The Duke Spoiled Rich kid is funny too. I understand what you are saying, but I believe Redick family background isnt anything near being Rich. Christian Laettner and Bobby Hurley also had that tag and they were far from rich families as well. But I understand your point. Sometimes perception is reality.
I think Cherokee Parks is another one of those former Duke "spoiled rich kids" who has turned out to be a pretty good human being. He's working for the NBA as a lifecoach/counsler/mentor to young high level basketball prospects
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - michaeltex - 03-26-2021
(03-25-2021, 11:06 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: He was never on good NOP teams, and the spacing was always off. Perhaps he just got bad quality looks.
I remember watching that Fenerbache vs. Real Madrid game after we got Luka and Melli looked like a man amongst men. Had no idea he was in the NBA until I saw him in a Pels uniform and thought they got a steal.
Really odd.
I can't help but remember all the "throw in" players that weren't the primary deal focus but have been excellent contributors to the Mavs over the years. Of course there is DP, but wasn't Stevenson a filler? I'm sure there are more examples, but my caffeine levels have not yet gotten up to normal operating levels.
My point is that Melli may surprise, especially if he gets more comfortable around Luka, KP and other international players.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - michaeltex - 03-26-2021
I see JJR not as a nightly contributor, although there is every possibility to consider him such. He hasn't stuck around this long without knowing how to play the game on both ends.
I do see him as a weapon that can change the contours of a particular game, much like Bobi does. Comes into specific situations to exploit on-floor weaknesses in the opponents defense forcing them to react which then cascades into an easier/more productive night for everyone else.
And without Peja's back issues, which limited his impact on the championship season.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - hakeemfaan - 03-26-2021
No issues with the players themselves. I would definitely not have given a pck. However no issues with Reddick. Maybe Melli can also surprise. We are not bringing them to play a major role. Most players off the bench have some glaring flaw anywy. Either on the offensive or defensive end.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - david75090 - 03-26-2021
I'm not really seeing the downside to this trade. End of bench players for end of bench players. Except the Mavs possibly got the best 3 point shooter in the trade and 3 point shooting is the name of today's NBA game. The Mavs didn't trade anyone who couldn't easily be replaced. A 2nd round pick? Look at the two latest Mavs 2nd round picks. Are they playing? 2nd round picks are the coin of the realm in trades unless you get lucky as with Brunson. The Mavs do better with UDFAs than they do with 2nd round picks.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - Chicagojk - 03-26-2021
Redick picking # 17 for his Jersey #. Big shoes to step into. Other # 17's for Mavs: Antoine Rigaudeau, Ollie Mack, Chris Douglas Roberts, and Jeff Withey.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - hakeemfaan - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:00 AM)david75090 Wrote: I'm not really seeing the downside to this trade. End of bench players for end of bench players. Except the Mavs possibly got the best 3 point shooter in the trade and 3 point shooting is the name of today's NBA game. The Mavs didn't trade anyone who couldn't easily be replaced. A 2nd round pick? Look at the two latest Mavs 2nd round picks. Are they playing? 2nd round picks are the coin of the realm in trades unless you get lucky as with Brunson. The Mavs do better with UDFAs than they do with 2nd round picks.
Teams are parlaying those 2nd round picks as part of trade assets. Those are valued. So I would not just measure the value of those picks based on draft history. That is my only gripe. Again, absolutely no issues with the players themselves that we acquired.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - KillerLeft - 03-26-2021
We're all bringing baggage into this conversation from the past, related to Mavs' asset wasting. I get that.
The reality of this, specific situation is that next season, provided we hope to see guys like Nate Hinton around (I do), it would be EXTREMELY difficult to carve out roster space for whomever a pick or picks were used to draft. Throwing THIS 2nd rounder into THIS trade doesn't bother me a bit.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - SleepingHero - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:11 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: and Jeff Withey.
Yikes I don't think he can ever fill those shoes. MVP
(03-26-2021, 10:12 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: The reality of this, specific situation is that next season, provided we hope to see guys like Nate Hinton around (I do), it would be EXTREMELY difficult to carve out roster space for whomever a pick or picks were used to draft. Throwing THIS 2nd rounder into THIS trade doesn't bother me a bit.
Further, I think the Mavs find more undrafted gems than actual drafted prospects. I think they can find someone they like that didn't get picked pretty easily, as they've done it every year.
Nate Hinton for example is a baller. Dude is unafraid and there certainly is something there. Hopefully the Mavs don't cut him loose before he can realize his potential.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:12 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: We're all bringing baggage into this conversation from the past, related to Mavs' asset wasting. I get that.
The reality of this, specific situation is that next season, provided we hope to see guys like Nate Hinton around (I do), it would be EXTREMELY difficult to carve out roster space for whomever a pick or picks were used to draft. Throwing THIS 2nd rounder into THIS trade doesn't bother me a bit.
My problem is not really the wasted 2nd round pick. More about the general approach and direction. Now we are back in the same old position. Mavs will try their luck on the free agent market and risk losing some key players.
I just don´t see a concept. The Mavs are going in 3-4 different directions at the same time. 4 rookies on the roster. No minutes to develop them. Went with a more defensive minded approach and added long and athletic defenders. Failed. Replaced them with two shooters that cannot guard a chair and it´s not like the Mavs actually targeted both players. Melli was a last minute throw in because the trade was falling apart. Messy trades are a Donnie and Mark special. Redick looks like the usual Mavs addition. Washed up vet that might be able to give the Mavs have few minutes.
The only constant that is always the number one goal: Capspace.
I had high hopes that the Mavs would actually avoid the free agency game this season and make a bigger move at the deadline but I should have known better. We have a 10+ years sample size of free agency failures and I just don´t think that this year will be any different.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - fifteenth - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:30 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Went with a more defensive minded approach and added long and athletic defenders. Failed.
You think James and Wes were the lynchpins for adding defense, and that moving them proves that adding defense failed?
(03-26-2021, 10:30 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: Mavs will try their luck on the free agent market and risk losing some key players.
I just don´t see a concept.
I think this is a reasonable complaint based on the past. Maybe I'm silly to think that Luka makes a difference this offseason. For this iteration of the Mavs, correct me if I'm wrong, but this offseason is pretty much the last offseason that they'll be able to try to add a significant piece via free agency.
You may get your wish this summer, though, cap space available or not. The roster may be remade via a big trade if KP doesn't learn to play with, and like playing with Luka.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - ItsGoTime - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 09:51 AM)michaeltex Wrote: I can't help but remember all the "throw in" players that weren't the primary deal focus but have been excellent contributors to the Mavs over the years. Of course there is DP, but wasn't Stevenson a filler? I'm sure there are more examples, but my caffeine levels have not yet gotten up to normal operating levels.THJ and Bubble Burke were 2 more. This is certainly a possibility, not gonna hold my breath though.
My point is that Melli may surprise, especially if he gets more comfortable around Luka, KP and other international players.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:38 AM)fifteenth Wrote: You think James and Wes were the lynchpins for adding defense, and that moving them proves that adding defense failed?
According to this board James Johnson was a crucial addition. A tough enforcer that would change the entire culture of the team.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - haveitall - 03-26-2021
I think that the real reason they did this trade is that they want to move THJ into the starting lineup and put DFS on the bench or as situational starter. Johnson and Iwundu while good defenders clogged up the offense. With good bench shooters Dallas can get the big leads they have lacked this season.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - KillerLeft - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:30 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: My problem is not really the wasted 2nd round pick. More about the general approach and direction. Now we are back in the same old position. Mavs will try their luck on the free agent market and risk losing some key players.
I just don´t see a concept. The Mavs are going in 3-4 different directions at the same time. 4 rookies on the roster. No minutes to develop them. Went with a more defensive minded approach and added long and athletic defenders. Failed. Replaced them with two shooters that cannot guard a chair and it´s not like the Mavs actually targeted both players. Melli was a last minute throw in because the trade was falling apart. Messy trades are a Donnie and Mark special. Redick looks like the usual Mavs addition. Washed up vet that might be able to give the Mavs have few minutes.
The only constant that is always the number one goal: Capspace.
I had high hopes that the Mavs would actually avoid the free agency game this season and make a bigger move at the deadline but I should have known better. We have a 10+ years sample size of free agency failures and I just don´t think that this year will be any different.
I get the frustration with cap space - really, I do. Here are my thoughts on this, however:
1) I don't think it's interesting to turn EVERY situation that comes up into a conversation about the team's overall approach. I believe we all know where each other stands on that topic by now. It's helpful to get into it every once in awhile because we have a constant influx of new readers and contributors, but in my opinion, it's a drag for EVERY topic to devolve into the same argument.
2) This is the same as #1 only in reverse, but I don't think it's super fair to let one's opinion of the team's overall approach color their opinion on each specific move. It's hard not to do this, and I'm not saying I'm some model of objectivity - I'd probably do the same if I were on your side of the overall argument.
3) To me, the cap space thing isn't even about free agency, really. I mean, that's a huge part of it, but what I'm excited about, and why I'm not freaking out at every off-season or trade deadline lately, is the absence of bad money on the team. To me, that was where they went wrong in the Dirk era. So, for me, it's not about whether free agency has been successful in the past, and CERTAINLY not in any year before Luka was drafted. For me, step one is to keep the roster economics from spinning out of control, preventing them from doing what they need to do when the time comes. To a certain extent, I'm happy simply because this approach is different from the Dirk era approach.
An important distinction, at this point, is that when I say "the Dirk era" I mean the period between the day Nash and Dirk were brought in and the championship season, 2011. Blowing up that team was stupid, and everything (literally, everything) between 2012 and the day Luka was drafted is a separate era for me...I'll just call it "the dark ages" I guess.
Nothing during that dark ages era mattered. Nothing had a chance of being successful. Nothing was important. Every single thing they did was stupid. YOU might see similarities between THIS approach and THAT one, but for ME, judging this cleaner cap approach started on the day Luka was drafted, basically. I think it's potentially a BETTER way of building around a superstar than what they did for Dirk, but NOTHING "works" when you don't start with that superstar in the NBA. Now, I could ultimately be incorrect about this, but I don't really take "the last 10 years" seriously as any sort of evidence, if that makes sense.
I have more to say about this, but I'm realizing now that when I got to point #3 I did exactly what I argued against in point #1. Sorry about that.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - fifteenth - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:43 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: ccording to this board James Johnson was a crucial addition. A tough enforcer that would change the entire culture of the team.
Seriously? What I remember is that he has a black belt (too bad it's not a black belt in basketball), will help protect Luka (how often is that kind of thing actually needed?), and some said he could still play a little. He was always bottom third of the roster, minus a few hopeful folks putting him in their rotation. He's been a bit player for years. I don't remember "this board" saying anything different, except a few people.
Can guys expected to be in the bottom third of the roster ever be considered the lynchpins of a new approach? Yeah folks were excited about them, because it kind of symbolized a defensivie focus. But I don't care too much about symbols.
Obviously Josh was the defensive addition that would actually play top of the rotation minutes. And I think he has helped the defense, before covid, and now that his health and play arrows are pointing up.
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - sefant - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:43 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: According to this board James Johnson was a crucial addition. A tough enforcer that would change the entire culture of the team.
And then he found his new Dallas weed dealer. Sometimes he had games where i was wondering if he is stoned. I wasn't the only one, still remember a game where a random non Maverick fan on RealGM forums literally posted the same.
5-6 TO games, clanking shots that aren't even close. He kinda had some flashes early on, but something must have happened. Didn't he also had a loud argument with Rick? Missed games with personal reasons afterwards.
If you wanna compare on/off from Powell, WCS and Johnson, i am not surprised they shipped him out. He managed to single-handedly kill the offense, similar to Delon Wright. MBT likes their advanced stats.
Powell +3.7
WCS +7
Johnson -7.6
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - dirkfansince1998 - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:53 AM)fifteenth Wrote: Seriously? What I remember is that he has a black belt (too bad it's not a black belt in basketball), will help protect Luka (how often is that kind of thing actually needed?), and some said he could still play a little. He was always bottom third of the roster, minus a few hopeful folks putting him in their rotation. He's been a bit player for years. I don't remember "this board" saying anything different, except a few people.
Can guys expected to be in the bottom third of the roster ever be considered the lynchpins of a new approach? Yeah folks were excited about them, because it kind of symbolized a defensivie focus. But I don't care too much about symbols.
Obviously Josh was the defensive addition that would actually play top of the rotation minutes. And I think he has helped the defense, before covid, and now that his health and play arrows are pointing up.
I remember that some posters had him starting over Maxi. I admit that I am one of the more pessimisistic posters on this board but when I tried to voice my concern about Johnson I was attacked from all sides. Also got into it with @"KillerLeft" but that was more about him being happy that Delon was gone (no matter the cost).
RE: TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP - fifteenth - 03-26-2021
(03-26-2021, 10:58 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I remember that some posters had him starting over Maxi. I admit that I am one of the more pessimisistic posters on this board but when I tried to voice my concern about Johnson I was attacked from all sides. Also got into it with @KillerLeft but that was more about him being happy that Delon was gone (no matter the cost).
There are so many different opinions represented here, that seems like you'll always find folks that disagree. I mean... I argued with a mob yesterday just because I didn't think the recent Delon trade was a blemish representitive of systemic Mavs failure. :-D
If I had any hope that James could break into the rotation, it wouldn't have been based on seeing him play. I didn't know who he was until we traded for him. But he sure wasn't very good here. So you were absolutely right about him!