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RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 04:15 PM)david75090 Wrote: I am, of course, judging a 6 year veteran based upon his injury history and ability to stay on the court. He was a very good player. Players who are sitting on the court in Street Clothes, soaking up the salary cap when not playing or hobbling around on court when they are, are less valuable. Right now, he's another team's problem. My opinion is, don't waste time thinking about Ball. Think about available players who are available to play at an NBA level, regardless of where they were drafted, or if they were drafted.
Then you may want to drop his draft spot from your argument.
I look at Ball as the many potentially good/great players who have been sidelined by injury (Rose, Hill, etc), but came back at a lower level of contribution. Yes, he's not where he was, but as you stated, anyone available that is the case.
At the time of signing with CHI, we signed THJ for basically the same money. Ball can still defend, distribute, and rebound at a nice clip. Should his continuing to be injured be a concern? Sure, especially with AD, Lively, Exum, and a 33yo Kyrie with blown ACL.
But as with anything, what are the alternatives? It's easy to deconstruct, but much tougher to provide an alternative.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - aguiar95 - 05-24-2025
My two cents on our off-season: Simple plan
- Draft Flagg at #1. Duh.
- Trade Hardy/'30 PHI 2nd for a protected (top-55 2nd). Bunch of teams could adquire him, I'm sure some young squad could use him properly (BKN, WAS, etc..).
- Re-sign Kyrie at 120M/3y (2+1) starting as 38.000.000. Tricky, but if Ky wants to compete, he'd have to help us on this next contract to at least use the TP-MLE.
- Sign Tyus Jones at TP-MLE starting at 5.685.000 (hard-caps us at 2nd apron). Starting is clearly a priority to him and we would provide that for 60 games + a well-rounded defensive team to hide him.
- Re-sign Exum for the vet. min starting at 3.303.774 (counts 2.296.274 towards the cap). Kidd mentioned him by name which to me indicates he prefers his kit over Dinwiddie's.
Jones (28)/Williams (12)/Marshall (8)
Thompson (26)/Christie (16)/Martin (6)/Exum (GT)
Flagg (22)/Marshall (14)/Washington (10)/Martin (2)
Davis (26)/Washington (16)/Flagg (6)/Prosper (GT)
Lively (24)/Gafford (18)/Davis (6)/Powell (GT)
- Martin should probably play GT, but i bet Kidd won't give him DNPs given his rep.
- Kyrie would take Tyus minutes and Tyus takes the full backup role (18-24 mpg).
- Exum would fight B-Will for minutes (maybe both get 6).
- Would love to get Ajinca as a 15th-man if we could dump DP as well (would sign for a multi-year starting at min 1.272.870).
Davis (32)
Jones (28)
Flagg (28)
Washington (26)
Thompson (26)
Lively (24)
Marshall (22)
Gafford (18)
Christie (16)
Williams (12)
Martin (8)
Anthony Davis - 57.604.894
Kyrie Irving - 38.000.000
Klay Thompson - 16.666.667
Daniel Gafford - 14.386.320
P.J. Washington - 14.152.174
#1 - Cooper Flagg - 13.825.920
Caleb Martin - 9.594.044
Naji Marshall - 9.000.000
Max Christie - 7.714.286
Tyus Jones - 5.685.000
Dereck Lively - 5.253.191
Dwight Powell (PO) - 4.000.000
Olivier-Maxance Prosper - 3.007.092
Brandon Williams - 2.349.578
Dante Exum - 2.296.274
JaVale McGee (dead money) - 2.208.856
TOTAL = 205.744.296
Leaves us room to work (2M) if needed (2nd apron at 207.825.000), seeing that we suffered last time by not having extra wiggle room.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - loki - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 04:55 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: My two cents on our off-season: Simple plan
- Draft Flagg at #1. Duh.
- Trade Hardy/'30 PHI 2nd for a protected (top-55 2nd). Bunch of teams could adquire him, I'm sure some young squad could use him properly (BKN, WAS, etc..).
- Re-sign Kyrie at 120M/3y (2+1) starting as 38.000.000. Tricky, but if Ky wants to compete, he'd have to help us on this next contract to at least use the TP-MLE.
- Sign Tyus Jones at TP-MLE starting at 5.685.000 (hard-caps us at 2nd apron). Starting is clearly a priority to him and we would provide that for 60 games + a well-rounded defensive team to hide him.
- Re-sign Exum for the vet. min starting at 3.303.774 (counts 2.296.274 towards the cap). Kidd mentioned him by name which to me indicates he prefers his kit over Dinwiddie's.
Jones (28)/Williams (12)/Marshall (8)
Thompson (26)/Christie (16)/Martin (6)/Exum (GT)
Flagg (22)/Marshall (14)/Washington (10)/Martin (2)
Davis (26)/Washington (16)/Flagg (6)/Prosper (GT)
Lively (24)/Gafford (18)/Davis (6)/Powell (GT)
- Martin should probably play GT, but i bet Kidd won't give him DNPs given his rep.
- Kyrie would take Tyus minutes and Tyus takes the full backup role (18-24 mpg).
- Exum would fight B-Will for minutes (maybe both get 6).
- Would love to get Ajinca as a 15th-man if we could dump DP as well (would sign for a multi-year starting at min 1.272.870).
Pretty reasonable. Tre Jones and CP3 could be other options for the TP-MLE spot. I hope both Dinwiddie and Exum are gone. I'd also like to see Kai Jones re-signed, although he might not have much of a role if Davis/Lively/Gafford are all here.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 05-24-2025
I certainly like the idea of Tyus Jones as the fill-in for Kyrie, if he can be had for the TxpMLE of about 5.7M (max years 2, max money total 12.22M). I would really love having him on the 2-year "most we can offer" deal. I have assumed he would get a much bigger deal than that.
To make the numbers work, Kyrie has to decline his option and re-sign starting at 38M or less (with no incentives), OR the Mavs must do a payroll-clearing move of some sort. His PO is ~43M so they would be adding onto that. At 38M to start, with max raises, he can end up with 123M over 3 years (essentially adding 2/80 onto his PO, and then shuffling the payout). Seems to be a workable idea, and a really good plan if it can be done.
If that was locked up, then I would still be hoping any or all of Powell, Martin, and Hardy could be moved too, but wouldn't pay much to do it. My default "extra move" in THAT context would be to move Powell to a team with cap space, so that I could sign Jones to fill that C spot (assumes he's easily signed for minimum) and also free up a bit of a cushion under A2 (about 1.5M). I don't think moving Powell should cost more than sending enough cash to pay his salary along with a SRP-swap (or protected SRP) as a tip.
I would still be very open to trading Martin and Hardy (either alone or in some combo with DP), as I hate the contracts vs what I think they will contribute, but I do see faint possibilities either of them could offer some value to keep, so not a must-do. If there was some way to get the Martin who showed up in MIA playoffs, that would be great and he'd be an incredible value, but that's probably just a dream.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 04:29 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: Then you may want to drop his draft spot from your argument.
You're the only one worried about his draft position. He's now been in the league for years. Ball might be available because he's unavailable to play. Any money spent on him would be wasted. He was a highly thought of player. Not now. Unfortunate that he's injured. If he wasn't injured the other teams would want to keep him.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 08:52 PM)david75090 Wrote: You're the only one worried about his draft position. He's now been in the league for years. Ball might be available because he's unavailable to play. Any money spent on him would be wasted. He was a highly thought of player. Not now. Unfortunate that he's injured. If he wasn't injured the other teams would want to keep him.
I agree with your general analysis of Ball - he's who he is (not who he was), he's high risk, and there's no guarantee he can be healthy enough to truly contribute.
But that reality forms the basis for what I think could make him a good trade target for the Mavs - which is, it seems quite likely CHI is going to be VERY open to a trade (in fact, I think his contract was designed specifically to enhance his trade appeal in anticipation of moving him after July 1), and the Mavs outgoing are players with some potential value to CHI but whose contracts are in the way in DAL and who might otherwise be hard to move. Hardy, Martin, Powell, take em all.
Despite the relatively high risk of him being hobbled again, the end result of such a trade would be that if Ball does NOT manage to be healthy, the Mavs still benefit by opening up some spending ability and roster space from doing such a trade. And if he does manage to be healthy (or even partly so), they also gain some help on the floor. Maybe even a consistent stream of impact minutes, in limited amounts each game? The financial risk to the Mavs of his 10M contract (if he proves worthless) is relatively modest in NBA terms (especially since it's only a 1-year commitment), and if he does work out, you get a TO for a 2nd year.
I wouldn't put all my 2025-26 eggs in a Ball basket, to be sure. But if you can add him in a way where you aren't expecting to depend on him, but you have opportunity waiting if he can handle it, then I think trading for him makes all the sense in the world. Oh, and BTW I've looked for better player (healthier) to target in such a Hardy-Martin-Powell price range (you need someone making 10-15M approx, who plays PG and would be good enough to contribute), who like Ball wouldn't have a high price tag so he might be acquired for that group, and haven't found one.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Winter - 05-25-2025
While Ball makes me nervous, you're really banking on a window of time. You're trading for a good value PG for a critical period of 4 months early in the season. When Kyrie comes back, you will likely have all the reinforcements needed to handle the PG load regardless of minor injuries.
Of course you want Ball to stay reasonably healthy. It's not ideal in that sense, but the PG position can be better managed after mid-season.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Chicagojk - 05-25-2025
(05-24-2025, 04:55 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: My two cents on our off-season: Simple plan
- Draft Flagg at #1. Duh.
- Trade Hardy/'30 PHI 2nd for a protected (top-55 2nd). Bunch of teams could adquire him, I'm sure some young squad could use him properly (BKN, WAS, etc..).
- Re-sign Kyrie at 120M/3y (2+1) starting as 38.000.000. Tricky, but if Ky wants to compete, he'd have to help us on this next contract to at least use the TP-MLE.
- Sign Tyus Jones at TP-MLE starting at 5.685.000 (hard-caps us at 2nd apron). Starting is clearly a priority to him and we would provide that for 60 games + a well-rounded defensive team to hide him.
- Re-sign Exum for the vet. min starting at 3.303.774 (counts 2.296.274 towards the cap). Kidd mentioned him by name which to me indicates he prefers his kit over Dinwiddie's.
Jones (28)/Williams (12)/Marshall (8)
Thompson (26)/Christie (16)/Martin (6)/Exum (GT)
Flagg (22)/Marshall (14)/Washington (10)/Martin (2)
Davis (26)/Washington (16)/Flagg (6)/Prosper (GT)
Lively (24)/Gafford (18)/Davis (6)/Powell (GT)
- Martin should probably play GT, but i bet Kidd won't give him DNPs given his rep.
- Kyrie would take Tyus minutes and Tyus takes the full backup role (18-24 mpg).
- Exum would fight B-Will for minutes (maybe both get 6).
- Would love to get Ajinca as a 15th-man if we could dump DP as well (would sign for a multi-year starting at min 1.272.870).
Davis (32)
Jones (28)
Flagg (28)
Washington (26)
Thompson (26)
Lively (24)
Marshall (22)
Gafford (18)
Christie (16)
Williams (12)
Martin (8)
Anthony Davis - 57.604.894
Kyrie Irving - 38.000.000
Klay Thompson - 16.666.667
Daniel Gafford - 14.386.320
P.J. Washington - 14.152.174
#1 - Cooper Flagg - 13.825.920
Caleb Martin - 9.594.044
Naji Marshall - 9.000.000
Max Christie - 7.714.286
Tyus Jones - 5.685.000
Dereck Lively - 5.253.191
Dwight Powell (PO) - 4.000.000
Olivier-Maxance Prosper - 3.007.092
Brandon Williams - 2.349.578
Dante Exum - 2.296.274
JaVale McGee (dead money) - 2.208.856
TOTAL = 205.744.296
Leaves us room to work (2M) if needed (2nd apron at 207.825.000), seeing that we suffered last time by not having extra wiggle room.
Nice post.
The season is so long and I am not sure where the # is, but I think Dallas has to be very careful with AD minutes. Is that under 30? 30? I just feel like you can’t wear him out in the regular season. So I think good depth is going to be important. This is true for Lively as well.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Chicagojk - 05-25-2025
(05-24-2025, 04:14 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: I've been a Kidd critic since he was in HS. IMO coaching-wise he's a savant and defense and an idiot on offense. That said, he coached us to a Finals. Kidd has a few seasons' worth of grace.
Nico, however, lost the fanbase, like nuclear explosion on us. Unless the league IS rigged and Nico's disaster is why we get Flagg, Nico needs to go.
I just don't know how Nico ever fixes this. Even if they turn into a good team again, I think that bridge is burned. It will be interesting if the general anger doesn't disapate even if they are good, if Dumont ever decides to move on.
Moving to next year, my two people with the most to prove is AD and Kidd. AD not the talent, but the fit. I think most NBA people think his best position is center. AD disagrees and it appears Nico and Kidd agree with AD. So,can he guard on the perimeter and not give up open corner threes often. On offense, can he really highlight the center he is playing with? Him playing the PF position well is one thing, but can he bring out the best of the other players (especially centers). If he doesn't or can't it opens up a ton of difficult questions moving forward.
For Kidd this is a big year. Entering last year, I had several qualms. Although, I thought he was a good coach to manage stars. Well, that took a hit. There is no more relying on Luka to carry your offense. Dallas has veterans (smart veterans) and a few young players with an advanced basketball IQ. I really want to see a different offense. It was impossible to change during the season last year, but I want to see more than just finding a mismatch and spreading the floor. Does he have the ability to develop this offense? Defense is also a question. Dallas will have 3 guys on the floor at most times who are all good shot blockers. How do they limit easy putbacks or giving up open threes. They will really need to be connected.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 05-25-2025
(05-24-2025, 10:00 PM)F Gump Wrote: I agree with your general analysis of Ball - he's who he is (not who he was), he's high risk, and there's no guarantee he can be healthy enough to truly contribute.
But that reality forms the basis for what I think could make him a good trade target for the Mavs - which is, it seems quite likely CHI is going to be VERY open to a trade (in fact, I think his contract was designed specifically to enhance his trade appeal in anticipation of moving him after July 1), and the Mavs outgoing are players with some potential value to CHI but whose contracts are in the way in DAL and who might otherwise be hard to move. Hardy, Martin, Powell, take em all.
Despite the relatively high risk of him being hobbled again, the end result of such a trade would be that if Ball does NOT manage to be healthy, the Mavs still benefit by opening up some spending ability and roster space from doing such a trade. And if he does manage to be healthy (or even partly so), they also gain some help on the floor. Maybe even a consistent stream of impact minutes, in limited amounts each game? The financial risk to the Mavs of his 10M contract (if he proves worthless) is relatively modest in NBA terms (especially since it's only a 1-year commitment), and if he does work out, you get a TO for a 2nd year.
I wouldn't put all my 2025-26 eggs in a Ball basket, to be sure. But if you can add him in a way where you aren't expecting to depend on him, but you have opportunity waiting if he can handle it, then I think trading for him makes all the sense in the world. Oh, and BTW I've looked for better player (healthier) to target in such a Hardy-Martin-Powell price range (you need someone making 10-15M approx, who plays PG and would be good enough to contribute), who like Ball wouldn't have a high price tag so he might be acquired for that group, and haven't found one.
If the Mavs were to trade for Ball for salary matching purposes to get rid of some contracts, OK. Maybe the Mavs could extract another player from the Bulls for doing them the favor of taking Ball's contract.
I'd be apprehensive of expecting any kind of return to a rotation. As an end of the bench player, there are less expensive alternatives. If the Mavs need a PG that they can count on for solid minutes, and they do, they should look elsewhere.
I'd be happy if the Mavs traded for Ball and he turned out to be an average NBA player. The team would be better for that. Is that better than Spencer Dinwiddie?
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DallasMaverick - 05-25-2025
I’m reading a lot of hand-wringing over the need to replace Kyrie during the first part of the season.
Why?
Is this a .500 team without him? And a .600 team with him?
So let’s say you can acquire a kyrie-equivalent player for the first 60 games. You win 36 games instead of 30.
How much is that worth?
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Winter - 05-25-2025
It's not a perfect time-line for that injury. I've seen some reports that March is more likely. On top of that, it's hard to imagine he comes back right away in all-star form.
And really, 6-10 more wins is a pretty critical number when the season ends.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Smitty - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 08:50 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I’m reading a lot of hand-wringing over the need to replace Kyrie during the first part of the season.
Why?
Is this a .500 team without him? And a .600 team with him?
So let’s say you can acquire a kyrie-equivalent player for the first 60 games. You win 36 games instead of 30.
How much is that worth?
I see your point. I think the concern is knowing how this team looked without competent PG play late last year. The only one on the roster right now is Williams. A 2-way player that showed some promise but far from a lock to be able to hold down the ship.
I for one think the offense and play style will be a change from what we’re used to and the idea that you must have a heliocentric guard get you open looks in this offense, won’t be the case. Sure in clutch time you need someone that can set things up, but I see that being someone different each night (Williams, Flagg, Naji, Christie, AD)
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - loki - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 08:50 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I’m reading a lot of hand-wringing over the need to replace Kyrie during the first part of the season.
Why?
Is this a .500 team without him? And a .600 team with him?
So let’s say you can acquire a kyrie-equivalent player for the first 60 games. You win 36 games instead of 30.
How much is that worth?
I want a decent point guard more to take some pressure of Flagg than anything. Right now it looks like they're going to run him out there in a starting lineup that has no point guard, no other plus wing defenders, and no #1 scoring option. Seems like a bit much to ask of an 18 year old.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 10:41 AM)loki Wrote: Seems like a bit much to ask of an 18 year old.
Is it? His track record says STRONGLY that he's more than up to the task.
What he's been doing already can be overlooked. But consider....
1 When he was only 15, he was the USA Under 17 Player of the Year.
2 When he was only 17 he was so good he was invited to scrimmage against USA Olympic Team, where he held his own and impressed. At 17.
3 In college, he won every award, and was considered the best of the best. Started the season as a 17 year old!
In some ways, Luka is a great comparison. Players who were on a different level as a teen.
I think he's more than ready and will only keep getting better.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - RoyTarpleysGhost - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 08:50 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I’m reading a lot of hand-wringing over the need to replace Kyrie during the first part of the season.
Why?
Is this a .500 team without him? And a .600 team with him?
So let’s say you can acquire a kyrie-equivalent player for the first 60 games. You win 36 games instead of 30.
How much is that worth?
That player won't go away after Kyrie comes back.
Even with a 100% Kyrie, I don't think the Mavs have enough playmaking at guard to be considered a contender.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - RoyTarpleysGhost - 05-25-2025
duplicate
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - FireNicoHarrison - 05-25-2025
(05-25-2025, 08:50 AM)DallasMaverick Wrote: I’m reading a lot of hand-wringing over the need to replace Kyrie during the first part of the season.
Why?
Is this a .500 team without him? And a .600 team with him?
So let’s say you can acquire a kyrie-equivalent player for the first 60 games. You win 36 games instead of 30.
How much is that worth?
Agree. It's useless.
Fire Nico and Kidd. Trade Ad. Don't resign Kyrie.
Our core is young, build around them and the picks from street clothes trade.
Davis&Irving will cost us 110+ M next 2 years.
It's foolish.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - GATA - 05-26-2025
Here is my thing. Why sign Irving? He obviously isn’t “defense wins championships”.
Then, why ever give somebody that age that money coming off of probably the worst injury a guy that size and play style could have? Then, a guy not known at all for his work ethic. Stupid
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DL2RimRocker - 05-26-2025
(05-25-2025, 07:47 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Nice post.
The season is so long and I am not sure where the # is, but I think Dallas has to be very careful with AD minutes. Is that under 30? 30? I just feel like you can’t wear him out in the regular season. So I think good depth is going to be important. This is true for Lively as well.
Honestly, I'm not concerned about Davis's minutes because he'll get plenty of rest throughout the season by sitting out half the games for most likely a half dozen or so different reasons.
That is the main reason why we should keep PJ if Mavs have any serious interest in making the POs next season.
If they trade PJ and are relying on Davis to play 70+ games, they might as well tank for the opportunity to draft Peterson next year.