(07-09-2025, 08:36 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Shams Charania
Oklahoma City Thunder star and NBA champion Chet Holmgren has agreed to a fully guaranteed five-year maximum rookie contract extension that could reach $250 million, agent Bill Duffy of WME Basketball told ESPN.

(07-09-2025, 09:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The sample is incredibly small on Williams.  He's not the answer to anything really other than the PG on the 12-15 part of the roster. 

We know exactly what Exum is.  He's a rotation piece sure, but there is a limit to his upside and we have a pretty good idea what those limits are.  Availability is always a question, so he needs to be a luxury in your rotation, not something critical to your success.

I think it is an open question as to whether we get the 24/25 version of DLo or the version from the two years prior.  If the latter, then he's a really good and helpful 6th/7th man type who will be unfortunately thrust into a starting role until Kyrie comes back. 

I don't think DLo or Exum have the 2-way chops to fill the role that needs to be filled and we already saw Kidd going away from Klay as a closer last season.

(07-09-2025, 08:53 AM)mvossman Wrote: I think his shooting will be ok.  He has improved every season and the free throw shooting is good.  It will be low volume, but that is ok for a guy that will generally have the ball in his hands.

But I can't get over the fact that two years ago he was probably the biggest reason we beat OKC in the playoffs, and now we want to pay assets and 30 mil a year for him?  I know he was young, but I don't think he will develop into an elite creator and he is not an elite defender which means he is not worth near max.  I'm with Gump on this one.

(07-09-2025, 09:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I think calling Flagg a PG is overstating things.  He's a wing/forward who will be charged with some creation responsibility.  We have plenty of examples of this around the league...many of which are on All NBA teams and none of which are called PG's except maybe Luka.  

I also think it is an overstatement to say we have an "arsenal of 5 PG's".  We wouldn't give Nembhard a moments thought if he was on some other team and had a different last name.  But, because he's ours, he's suddenly a legitimate NBA prospect.  The sample is incredibly small on Williams.  3 missed 3's takes him from a .400 shooter from deep to .350.  One more miss and he's .333.  He's not the answer to anything really other than the PG on the 12-15 part of the roster.  We know exactly what Exum is.  He's a 3 & D wing who has some ability to handle the ball better than most 3 & D wings.  If you are relying on him to be your full-time starting PG, you probably have issues.  He's a rotation piece sure, but there is a limit to his upside and we have a pretty good idea what those limits are.  Availability is always a question, so he needs to be a luxury in your rotation, not something critical to your success.

I think it is an open question as to whether we get the 24/25 version of DLo or the version from the two years prior.  If the latter, then he's a really good and helpful 6th/7th man type who will be unfortunately thrust into a starting role until Kyrie comes back.  I doubt we ever see much DLo/Kyrie together except for O-for-D switches in the final seconds of a game.  Kyrie is the "PG" that matters here.  He, Flagg and AD are the locks to close games.  I think Lively or PJ will be 4th in line and the real question that needs to be answered is who is the 5th guy (and is it one of the guards you mention...including Klay or Max).  Right now our 5 best players (Kyrie, Flagg, AD, Lively and PJ) probably don't form the ideal closing lineup.  I don't think DLo or Exum have the 2-way chops to fill the role that needs to be filled and we already saw Kidd going away from Klay as a closer last season.

I think the development we need to watch for is Max Christie building on his first month here.  In his 11 games in February he played 33 minutes a game and was 14.1/4.3/3.4 and +8.8.  He shot .440 from deep.  He's a great FT shooter (important late in games) and is probably our best point-of-attack defender along with Exum.  He fell about after that, which corresponded exactly to Kyrie getting hurt.  So, is he really good when surrounded by really good players and really mediocre when forced to do too much?  We need to hope so as he's probably our best hope for filling the guard need we have.  If February was a fluke and if he doesn't progress any, then we have a hole in our lineup no matter how many small guards are on the roster.

(07-09-2025, 09:58 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I doubt we ever see much DLo/Kyrie together except for O-for-D switches in the final seconds of a game.

(07-09-2025, 10:22 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: That's a little bit surprising.  Gotta think Jalen Williams gets at least that much also.  Plus the Shai super max.

(07-09-2025, 11:42 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I agree with every word of your excellent post, except for maybe the sentence above. I think off-ball shooting and offensive creation will be such a need for this team that I'd say there's a decent chance those two play quite a bit together. Both are good on and off ball. Kyrie, especially, has been very good off ball since coming here. I assume your hangup with it is defense, but I think there could be situations wherein the good outweighs the bad with that tandem, if Russell is playing well, if Kyrie comes back strong while games still matter, etc.

(07-09-2025, 11:51 AM)mvossman Wrote: I read somewhere that one of the reasons they went after Dlo is that they think he can play with Kyrie.  I'm concerned how that will work out, but I'm sure they are going to try it.

(07-09-2025, 11:56 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: I have a good feeling about Russell (we'll see how wrong I am in few months), so I'm excited about his fit in a number of ways. I think Dan's main point was that a major step forward from Christie would make this whole thing work a lot easier, and I totally agree with that.

(07-09-2025, 12:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm a little surprised you are such a fan.  He has some skill but he also has a fair amount of bonehead in him.  I'm curious how its going to play out between him and Kidd.  If he does revert back to two years ago, they will not be able to hold onto him.

(07-09-2025, 08:36 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: Shams Charania
Oklahoma City Thunder star and NBA champion Chet Holmgren has agreed to a fully guaranteed five-year maximum rookie contract extension that could reach $250 million, agent Bill Duffy of WME Basketball told ESPN.

(07-09-2025, 12:24 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: And so it begins for OKC.

I wonder how Presti navigates 3 max deals on top of all of his other young talent. SGA/Chet/J-Dub are going to be an expensive trio.

(07-09-2025, 02:56 PM)omahen Wrote: They have two seasons before they become really expensive. At that time they will have some 65 mil to pay rest of team and stay below the second apron (lets say 2nd apron is a hard cap limit). They are paying "rest of team" over 100 mil now. Seems like it will be difficult for them to keep Hartenstein and Dort.

(07-09-2025, 11:38 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: The $30 million part...yeah, I'm with you and Gump on that, especially right now. But, he doesn't have that deal yet. When I commented on Razz's deal (which I was conflicted about) I was commenting more about player for player value, rather than player for player salary, which I know has to be part of (maybe most of) the thinking. 

It's probably a long shot that Giddey is ever worth that cap percentage, I agree. On the other hand, the skill I think will always be crucial in sports is identifying the guy who's not currently viewed as a star but could potentially thrive in a star situation.

(07-09-2025, 03:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: That was my point about Giddey at 30k. So I think your "otoh" in last paragraph is minimizing an issue that really CAN'T be minimized without shooting yourself in the foot. Money matters. "We we think he might prove more useful later" as an excuse for overpaying now is just pushing yourself to a path where, when/if the player improves, you will have to pay even more later to keep him.

(07-09-2025, 11:39 AM)mvossman Wrote: Agree with all of this.  I think Max is a little like Josh Green in that he is better surrounded by good players, and he is the most likely one to end up as 5th starter in the finishing lineup.  I still think they will probably need to upgrade that spot to become a legit contender, but a big Max leap would be huge.

(07-09-2025, 02:56 PM)omahen Wrote: They have two seasons before they become really expensive. At that time they will have some 65 mil to pay rest of team and stay below the second apron (lets say 2nd apron is a hard cap limit). They are paying "rest of team" over 100 mil now. Seems like it will be difficult for them to keep Hartenstein and Dort.

(07-09-2025, 12:24 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: And so it begins for OKC.

I wonder how Presti navigates 3 max deals on top of all of his other young talent. SGA/Chet/J-Dub are going to be an expensive trio.

(07-09-2025, 04:49 PM)OBX Maverick Wrote: I think that after Kyrie went down and the Mavs were devoid of several other playmakers as well, Max just tried to do too much. I DO think he has the potential to dribble penetrate and make plays for himself…..we saw that on several occasions early on after he got here. We also need to remember that he’s only 22 years old. We literally just signed Ryan Nembhard who is 22 already as a rookie!  Let’s the give the kid a chance.  He seems like a good guy and from what I’ve heard, has a good work ethic.