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RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 05-23-2025
(05-23-2025, 10:17 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: We save around 400k next season, but assuming no renewals, we add significant millions afterwards
Actually no... instead the net result is a payroll GAIN of about 6M more over A2. Because it's a 4-for-1, there's also the cost of refilling 3 empty roster slots.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-23-2025
IMO, Dyson Daniels is perfect for the Mavs. ATL doesn't have much in the way of frontcourt. I wonder if they'd bite on AD?
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DanSchwartzgan - 05-23-2025
(05-23-2025, 07:58 AM)Winter Wrote: I didn't see this posted... sorry if its a repeat.
From Brian Robb:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2025/05/jrue-holiday-trade-scenarios-7-realistic-deals-involving-celtics-guard.html
Dallas Mavericks
Proposal: Jrue Holiday and draft compensation for Daniel Gafford, Caleb Martin, Jaden Hardy and Olivier-Maxence Prosper
While I don't mind the trade as is, Holiday's contract is pretty brutal through 2028. It won't be cheap.
First, to put a little more meat on FG's cap comment bone. You can't trust the trade machine in terms of apron violations because they don't have Flagg in their numbers yet. We also don't know Kyrie's number yet. We can presume, but we really don't know. Boston is a second apron team and can't aggregate outgoing or take extra salary. Dallas is almost certainly a first apron team under any reasonable assumption about Kyrie and can't take extra salary.
In the proposed deal Boston gets more back than they send out (which is easy enough to fix with a third team). Under most presumptions about Kyrie, Dallas ENDS UP over the second apron when the roster is brought up to the minimum number of players. I think you could fix this by sending out a more expensive player (like Christie instead of OMax) or sending Powell to a third team (again, what is Kyrie making?).
Holiday fits the three year window of the stars. He can run the show (especially next to Flagg) and guard on-ball (duh on that last one). He's decent from three. You can't get all three (run the team well and create, defend and hit three's) without a wart or two. That salary at that age is a pretty big wart, but it feels like that might be Nico's least worried about wart. Maybe he wants the whole team expiring simultaneously in three years.
A couple of notes...Boston will want to keep its 2026 pick in a year they are tearing things down. Dallas might be better served getting their 2027 (or anyone's 2027 that has to convey). Dallas would then have a pick in each of the next six drafts (after this one) and greater flexibility to trade picks. Boston has #32 in this draft. Whether it is that one or someone else's second, second round picks are a BUNCH less expensive now than minimum slots. In an apron world, the spread is worth pursuing.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - HoosierDaddyKid - 05-23-2025
(05-23-2025, 11:25 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: IMO, Dyson Daniels is perfect for the Mavs. ATL doesn't have much in the way of frontcourt. I wonder if they'd bite on AD?
Do you actually think Atlanta is going to turn him loose? I mean, I guess they could but great defenders are hard to get. He led the NBA in steals and deflections, and is the perfect wing to play with Trae Young who's a traffic cone on defense. I bet the Pelicans wish they could get him back after letting him ride the bench. You also must have forgot they have Jason Johnson who missed most of year with shoulder surgery. He's a young stud PF that has come into his own before he got hurt. They also have Onyeka Okongwu who's developing into a very good young center. The Lakers tried to get him at the deadline. They don't need AD. Atlanta has some talent, I just don't know when they are ever going to put it all together.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 05-23-2025
About the Holiday trade idea, some general thoughts ...
1 A PG or combo G in the same vein as Holiday but a few years younger, and available, that's the guy imo. Does he exist?
... But the maths on this proposed swap, even with some tweaks, that ISN'T where the Mavs need to be financially, even of they can squeeze to make it legal.
2 I don't think anything in that specific trade idea does anything at all for BOS, so just don't see it. Not the money, none of the players, nothing.
3 I seriously question whether the Mavs have anyone who can figure it out, but they desperately need an expert who can accurately evaluate and navigate "bang for the buck" issues expertly. Nico's moves keep making their cap situation more and more untenable, because they are getting very poor value in the contracts they pay.
...Even AD was awful value -- even though he's an excellent player, he doesn't play enough games to be worth 55M and up on your cap. The things the Mavs should have seen but didn't are: he's hard to build around because he misses so many games that you just can't plan on him, and he doesn't have the needed skills to fit the position he prefers AND to complement the rest of the roster. It feels like the Mavs are having to reconfigure a lot of good players for AD yet they won't even be sure that AD will play very much. Suicide.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DanSchwartzgan - 05-24-2025
I watched a guy doing a series of ideal off seasons do his version on the Mav's. It had other elements, but it ended up being PJ for Coby White, with PJ going to a third team. My mind has gone to Gafford deals and deals where we retain Gafford and PJ (sending 'stuff' for a PG). But, I haven't let my mind go toward PJ trades. The guy kind of made some sense though. First, PJ isn't chopped liver. He's a legitimate starter and should bring back a legitimate starter...certainly more than Martin/Hardy. Second, I kind of liked what was left here from the standpoint of roster balance:
Center: Lively/Gafford:
It makes me uncomfortable to bet my whole season on AD/Lively eating all of the 5 minutes.
Forward: AD/Flagg/OMax
Flagg/Naji/Martin
As much as I like PJ, this is plenty...even when AD misses games. Klay could also get time here.
Guard: Klay/Christie
Kyrie/Trade
Again, depending on who the Trade nets, this seems like plenty.
What I find interesting it isn't that easy to find a logical landing spot for PJ (and even harder to find one who happens to also have a spare starting guard and a salary situation that works).
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - F Gump - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 12:23 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I watched a guy doing a series of ideal off seasons do his version on the Mav's. It had other elements, but it ended up being PJ for Coby White, with PJ going to a third team. My mind has gone to Gafford deals and deals where we retain Gafford and PJ (sending 'stuff' for a PG). But, I haven't let my mind go toward PJ trades. The guy kind of made some sense though. First, PJ isn't chopped liver. He's a legitimate starter and should bring back a legitimate starter...certainly more than Martin/Hardy. Second, I kind of liked what was left here from the standpoint of roster balance:
Center: Lively/Gafford:
It makes me uncomfortable to bet my whole season on AD/Lively eating all of the 5 minutes.
Forward: AD/Flagg/OMax
Flagg/Naji/Martin
As much as I like PJ, this is plenty...even when AD misses games. Klay could also get time here.
Guard: Klay/Christie
Kyrie/Trade
Again, depending on who the Trade nets, this seems like plenty.
What I find interesting it isn't that easy to find a logical landing spot for PJ (and even harder to find one who happens to also have a spare starting guard and a salary situation that works).
I think this is great analysis, and agree with all the thinking ...but don't quite get to the conclusion of Coby White being the answer. Why? IMO he's just not going to be available.
But the bottom line, on the difficulty of finding a good target to fill that hole, I agree 100%. It feels like you'll end up paying a lot for a little, if you're not careful and force it. It's why I keep going back to Ball (even though he has way too many question marks to suit my taste), because I think he'll be available at a very modest price that could be quite helpful in other ways (in case those question marks kill his contributions) AND he could be good enough to actually fill that hole (at least, do it enough to be worth our while).
But that difficulty in finding the right guy makes me think again that Exum (presumably readily available and not expensive) is going to be worth re-signing as another piece. I know his injury history is a hassle, but in THIS CONTEXT, I'm thinking the Mavs gotta think of this like beggars and their pickiness.
There's another helpful piece. I do think your Mavs depth chart at G is missing a piece who will be used a lot, B Will. I'm high on what he can contribute, and he certainly fills an area of need.
B Will also makes me think of another solution that we aren't considering. But this one may be crucial in light of the lack of supply. Shouldn't they make it a high priority to scout out and sign another developmental PG to a 2-way deal, in the same vein as they did with B Will? That adds another body to fill minutes, potentially.
Maybe it should be someone like BW, who was an undrafted kid right out of college, but had already been kicking around the GL and two-way rosters a bit when the Mavs signed him. It seems there could be more guys like that at PG (or C, too), trying to climb the hill where the learning curve can be a bit steeper. There are a lot of last year's 2-way guys who will be available for someone else to sign, and even some in the GL last year who played well but weren't on a 2-way.
PS - As to PJW, having lived through 20 years where the Mavs were desperate for a defensive-minded wing who could score a bit and be a stopper, I have a hard time liking a deal that sends away a good one that we have finally landed. Those guys are SOOOOOO hard to find.
And a side note on the money to keep him, Caruso (probably considered a bit more desirable player?) recently extended with OKC for 4 yrs/81M. Is that a fair comp of a guy who is a significant use, good defender, not a big scorer? The point being, PJW's future salary may be way more team friendly than we've been discussing (which imo would be another point in favor of keeping what we have).
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - khaled1987 - 05-24-2025
(05-23-2025, 11:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: Actually no... instead the net result is a payroll GAIN of about 6M more over A2. Because it's a 4-for-1, there's also the cost of refilling 3 empty roster slots.
Yeah that's true.
Although, 4 for 1 is actually the reason I like this trade, because as much as I like Gafford, the rest are players I actually want to get rid of.
Holiday is also a serviceable and popular NBA player, that we might be able to get rid of for expiring if it isn't working out. Although that might be just theoretical.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - DL2RimRocker - 05-24-2025
(05-22-2025, 03:21 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Taking Legler's offensive archetypes a bit further underscores Mavs lack of guard depth.
PG - Quick, shifty, lead handler, work off screens, create problems for the defense, scoring guard.
- Kyrie is the ideal archetype (assuming he returns to 100%)
- Williams flashes but I don't trust his decision making to call him a rotation player.
SG - Space the floor as high volume 3pt shooter.
- Klay is the ideal archetype (but he's 35)
- Hardy can get hot but he's not a rotation piece
SF/PF - Good shooter from 24ft (2) attack the paint from 24ft (3) provide secondary creation.
- Christie can shoot ok & attack a bit. Sized like a guard but struggled in the role when Kyrie went out. More of a connector than creator. Struggled with consistency.
- Martin is a proven playoff rotation player, but more of a traditional spot up 3&D guy. Can't shoot though.
- Naji - can't shoot, but he can attack and create. High level backup.
- PJW - serviceable shooter, can attack the rim, willing passer but turnover prone. Can start, but best as 4th option.
- Flagg - Projects an the ideal archetype (but unproven)
- AD - can't shoot threes, can attack the paint but turnover prone if attacking from the perimeter, can create
C - Must screen, rim run, occupy dunker spot.
- Lively + Gafford can provide 48 minutes of the ideal archetype.
What do you think about the idea of the Mavs acquiring a pick in the 20 range and taking Walter Clayton Jr.?
The kid can score, is lightning quick, super athletic, good passer, high BBIQ and plays defense.
Listed as a combo guard but seems to have the qualities to transition to primarily PG at the next level.
Can't help but see a little bit of Iverson in him. Could easily be the next Hardy though.
Man, I'd love to see Nico take a chance and find a way to pick that kid up somehow.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Chicagojk - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 12:23 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I watched a guy doing a series of ideal off seasons do his version on the Mav's. It had other elements, but it ended up being PJ for Coby White, with PJ going to a third team. My mind has gone to Gafford deals and deals where we retain Gafford and PJ (sending 'stuff' for a PG). But, I haven't let my mind go toward PJ trades. The guy kind of made some sense though. First, PJ isn't chopped liver. He's a legitimate starter and should bring back a legitimate starter...certainly more than Martin/Hardy. Second, I kind of liked what was left here from the standpoint of roster balance:
Center: Lively/Gafford:
It makes me uncomfortable to bet my whole season on AD/Lively eating all of the 5 minutes.
Forward: AD/Flagg/OMax
Flagg/Naji/Martin
As much as I like PJ, this is plenty...even when AD misses games. Klay could also get time here.
Guard: Klay/Christie
Kyrie/Trade
Again, depending on who the Trade nets, this seems like plenty.
What I find interesting it isn't that easy to find a logical landing spot for PJ (and even harder to find one who happens to also have a spare starting guard and a salary situation that works).
I have been all over the map since the lottery luck on preferred direction. I have not come to a desired path yet. It makes it worse that I really like Gafford and PJ. I think an important piece is what each player wants (that needs to be considered as both players are entering their last year in their contracts). In addition, what the potential return for either player needs to be considered. I think whatever move they make it needs to make sense and prove value to the franchise moving forward. Both are good players.
I really think it is going to be tough to get buy in for PJ coming off the bench, despite minutes being available. I think it is an easier conversation with Gafford. I think, Gafford is the cleaner fit now too. Although, if you can sell the role and get buy in for PJ, there is a strong case to make that it is the better fit especially in a year from now, two years from now...... PJ gets his minutes, AD plays some backup 5 (especially as he gets older), and you find a replacement level center who is a 20 minute a game player when needed. In the playoffs, this lineup is much easier to work with PJ than Gafford, imo.
So who are the targets? Most of the guys have some warts. Two names out there are Sexton and Simons. Sexton has some dog in him (next JET?), but he too is in the last year of a contract and can you agree to a role and $ number after this year? In addition, he is smaller and could you play him and Kyrie together? I think that needs to be a consideration moving forward. Simons is not really a point guard and not a good defensive player. He is a flame thrower though. I have been thinking this team needs a guy at the guard spot who can spit fire every once and a while. Potentially he could be a part of a three guard rotation when Kyrie returns. Neither are perfect, but those are the two obvious names in the trade market. Or maybe it is something as simple as moving one for a mid first round pick in this years draft. There is risk there obviously. It seems like either should get more than that in a trade. Although, who knows.
Stay Tuned.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 05-24-2025
I think the Mavs need to build around their new center-piece, which is Cooper Flagg, if they draft him. (Fire Nico).
If the idea is, indeed, to play both ends of the floor, have well rounded, position-less players, the team needs to be built with that in mind. Hard to do 100%.
Some people want to bring in Ball. I view him as more of a pie-in-the-sky type. If he was what he was supposed to be when drafted, he wouldn't be available. He's injured. Acquiring him would be acquiring another Street Clothes. That position is filled. The Street Clothes that the Mavs already have is their best tradeable asset who needs to be moved for young players who play both ends of the floor, cheaply. Don't need high-priced, or any-priced, has-beens.
Time to fit a younger time line. Move as much of the dead-weight as possible. Love Kyrie. He's older but can mentor if he's willing. AD is a good player who's been broken down for a while. Nice guy, who needs to go. Like OMax, but have given up on him. Same with Hardy. They may figure it out, but I have my doubts.
These guys who're good guys, but don't look at the basket when passed the ball (Powell, Martin) gotta go. They don't have to be guarded. They don't fit the "well-rounded" criteria.
A basketball mind needs to be brought in to handle this roster.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - ballsrchr - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 09:10 AM)david75090 Wrote: I think the Mavs need to build around their new center-piece, which is Cooper Flagg, if they draft him. (Fire Nico).
If the idea is, indeed, to play both ends of the floor, have well rounded, position-less players, the team needs to be built with that in mind. Hard to do 100%.
Some people want to bring in Ball. I view him as more of a pie-in-the-sky type. If he was what he was supposed to be when drafted, he wouldn't be available. He's injured. Acquiring him would be acquiring another Street Clothes. That position is filled. The Street Clothes that the Mavs already have is their best tradeable asset who needs to be moved for young players who play both ends of the floor, cheaply. Don't need high-priced, or any-priced, has-beens.
Time to fit a younger time line. Move as much of the dead-weight as possible. Love Kyrie. He's older but can mentor if he's willing. AD is a good player who's been broken down for a while. Nice guy, who needs to go. Like OMax, but have given up on him. Same with Hardy. They may figure it out, but I have my doubts.
These guys who're good guys, but don't look at the basket when passed the ball (Powell, Martin) gotta go. They don't have to be guarded. They don't fit the "well-rounded" criteria.
A basketball mind needs to be brought in to handle this roster.
The cool, quiet voice of reason. I quote/reply to this because there is a lot to agree with. Time to build a real team from the Cooper Flagg pole up (Fire Nico).
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - WildArkieBoy - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 09:10 AM)david75090 Wrote: A basketball mind needs to be brought in to handle this roster.
GM or coach?
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Winter - 05-24-2025
Well since Nico basically made the commitment to "win now" a public statement, I don't expect him to go back on his word.
As much as a new timeline makes sense in some ways, I doubt that's how the front office is going to behave.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 12:48 PM)WildArkieBoy Wrote: GM or coach?
GM. If the GM feels the need to bring in a coach that he trusts, whatever. Start with, Fire Nico. Nico's betrayal of the fanbase is a non starter. There can be no healing with him having anything to do with the franchise. I was fine with Nico right up until he did the stupidest thing that he could've possibly done. Now, he must go.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 09:10 AM)david75090 Wrote: I think the Mavs need to build around their new center-piece, which is Cooper Flagg, if they draft him. (Fire Nico).
If the idea is, indeed, to play both ends of the floor, have well rounded, position-less players, the team needs to be built with that in mind. Hard to do 100%.
Some people want to bring in Ball. I view him as more of a pie-in-the-sky type. If he was what he was supposed to be when drafted, he wouldn't be available. He's injured. Acquiring him would be acquiring another Street Clothes. That position is filled. The Street Clothes that the Mavs already have is their best tradeable asset who needs to be moved for young players who play both ends of the floor, cheaply. Don't need high-priced, or any-priced, has-beens.
Time to fit a younger time line. Move as much of the dead-weight as possible. Love Kyrie. He's older but can mentor if he's willing. AD is a good player who's been broken down for a while. Nice guy, who needs to go. Like OMax, but have given up on him. Same with Hardy. They may figure it out, but I have my doubts.
These guys who're good guys, but don't look at the basket when passed the ball (Powell, Martin) gotta go. They don't have to be guarded. They don't fit the "well-rounded" criteria.
A basketball mind needs to be brought in to handle this roster.
You are valuing a 6 year veteran based upon where he was drafted???? That statement can be made for anyone not living up to their contract/draft position. It's also meaningless.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - FireNicoHarrison - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 12:48 PM)WildArkieBoy Wrote: GM or coach?
Both
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 06:51 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I have been all over the map since the lottery luck on preferred direction. I have not come to a desired path yet. It makes it worse that I really like Gafford and PJ. I think an important piece is what each player wants (that needs to be considered as both players are entering their last year in their contracts). In addition, what the potential return for either player needs to be considered. I think whatever move they make it needs to make sense and prove value to the franchise moving forward. Both are good players.
I really think it is going to be tough to get buy in for PJ coming off the bench, despite minutes being available. I think it is an easier conversation with Gafford. I think, Gafford is the cleaner fit now too. Although, if you can sell the role and get buy in for PJ, there is a strong case to make that it is the better fit especially in a year from now, two years from now...... PJ gets his minutes, AD plays some backup 5 (especially as he gets older), and you find a replacement level center who is a 20 minute a game player when needed. In the playoffs, this lineup is much easier to work with PJ than Gafford, imo.
So who are the targets? Most of the guys have some warts. Two names out there are Sexton and Simons. Sexton has some dog in him (next JET?), but he too is in the last year of a contract and can you agree to a role and $ number after this year? In addition, he is smaller and could you play him and Kyrie together? I think that needs to be a consideration moving forward. Simons is not really a point guard and not a good defensive player. He is a flame thrower though. I have been thinking this team needs a guy at the guard spot who can spit fire every once and a while. Potentially he could be a part of a three guard rotation when Kyrie returns. Neither are perfect, but those are the two obvious names in the trade market. Or maybe it is something as simple as moving one for a mid first round pick in this years draft. There is risk there obviously. It seems like either should get more than that in a trade. Although, who knows.
Stay Tuned.
Real talk... how much better is Sexton than Hardy if given the same opportunity? Given Sexton is a better distributor, but shooting and defense I'm thinking they're very similar. JET is a great comp for Sexton, by the way.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - Ghost of Podkolzin - 05-24-2025
I've been a Kidd critic since he was in HS. IMO coaching-wise he's a savant and defense and an idiot on offense. That said, he coached us to a Finals. Kidd has a few seasons' worth of grace.
Nico, however, lost the fanbase, like nuclear explosion on us. Unless the league IS rigged and Nico's disaster is why we get Flagg, Nico needs to go.
RE: Trade & FA 2025-26: - david75090 - 05-24-2025
(05-24-2025, 03:28 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: You are valuing a 6 year veteran based upon where he was drafted???? That statement can be made for anyone not living up to their contract/draft position. It's also meaningless.
I am, of course, judging a 6 year veteran based upon his injury history and ability to stay on the court. He was a very good player. Players who are sitting on the court in Street Clothes, soaking up the salary cap when not playing or hobbling around on court when they are, are less valuable. Right now, he's another team's problem. My opinion is, don't waste time thinking about Ball. Think about available players who are available to play at an NBA level, regardless of where they were drafted, or if they were drafted.