Terry vs Maledon

[KillerLeft]

Example Celtics:

Post KG-Pierce trade they had 16 1st round and 12 2nd round picks. They nailed the lottery picks Smart, Tatum and Brown. Added two more solid players in the 1st round (Williams, Rozier). Semi Ojeleye and Abdel Nader are the only 2nd round picks that are still in the league and both are more or less garbage time players.

Yeah, Ainge is another good example of an overrated GM, imo. 

On one hand, he successfully compiled a huge wealth of draft capital, to the point where the Celtics' future made everyone jealous (very similar to what Presti is doing now). 

On the other hand, he has shown very little ability to use that capital to transform his team into a championship favorite. I'd say we're about a year away from the national narrative on Boston landing squarely on the "underachievers" label. Plus, he's on a significant run of draft misses right now. 

It's not that he sucks, but he's also not AMAZING, like people think. The point is that there are many different parts of the job, and success requires way more than choosing the right guy in the draft.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/...4854079488

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Need to tap the brakes in both directions.

Terry and Green havent even had much of a training camp and only one preseason game.  Neither was a high draft pick.

That being said, I'm also not buying the "Mavs had a great draft" or "Mavs hit on all four picks" hot takes either.  Terry looked like poop in the first game.  Green looked good on the ball defending but the rest of his game is a ways away imo.  Until these two outperform Bey and Maldeon types, I dont think you can say the Mavs had a good draft.

[vfromlmf]

Carlisle is on record that he's seen enough of Terry to believe he will eventually be able to play both guard spots. That's big.

But wow Maledon really showed some advanced playmaking and vision in his first game. Just a super impressive debut. Maledon would be a lock for the first round if the draft were held today. Yes, after only one preseason game. 

There are already a bunch of teams - including the Mavs - who may be asking themselves why the passed on him.

[SleepingHero]

Need to tap the brakes in both directions.

Terry and Green havent even had much of a training camp and only one preseason game.  Neither was a high draft pick.

That being said, I'm also not buying the "Mavs had a great draft" or "Mavs hit on all four picks" hot takes either.  Terry looked like poop in the first game.  Green looked good on the ball defending but the rest of his game is a ways away imo.  Until these two outperform Bey and Maldeon types, I dont think you can say the Mavs had a good draft.

This 1000%

Don't understand why we are making definitive statements about rookies after their first preseason game in a shortened offseason. Training camp started 12 days ago.

[Kammrath]

There are already a bunch of teams - including the Mavs - who may be asking themselves why the passed on him.

It was all there to see in the film....he in particular has been playing against legit competition and looking good doing it. It is like Luka.

I am a pure amateur at scouting and I watched maybe 1.5 hrs of film on Maledon and was saying he would have a solid NBA career if it is not derailed by unforeseen things like injuries or off court stuff.

[radioaktiv]

"Through out his years of drafting for every Luka, Dirk, Josh Howard, ect there would be fifteen Justin Andersons, Moe Agers, Nick Fezekas, Jarred Cunningham, Shane Larkins, Shane Fosters, Nick Calathas, Amand Nevins."

LOL, this is like saying lottery picks are better than bottom 1st and 2nd rounders

[BolsDamols]

Rooting for Tyler Terry, lets give the kid some time..
The kid, admittedly although physically overmatched, is smart, driven and talented. 
It will all click for him at some point, I'm thinking sooner than later

[luka_skywalker_77]

After one preseason game...

(not to mention no summer league)

[madmavsgirl]

Gotta say one game is a bit too early to be making a judgement here. Considering how bad OKC will be Maledon is likely going to get minutes from the start. Terry obviously won't.

That said don't dismiss a high IQ guy with a sweet stroke.

[Playmaker]

"Through out his years of drafting for every Luka, Dirk, Josh Howard, ect there would be fifteen Justin Andersons, Moe Agers, Nick Fezekas, Jarred Cunningham, Shane Larkins, Shane Fosters, Nick Calathas, Amand Nevins."

LOL, this is like saying lottery picks are better than bottom 1st and 2nd rounders

Was Josh Howard a lottery pick?  I had no idea.  Those are guys and Devin Harris are the only NBA players in the draft that Donnie has hit on in his 20+ years with the Mavs.

[SleepingHero]

Was Josh Howard a lottery pick?  I had no idea.  Those are guys and Devin Harris are the only NBA players in the draft that Donnie has hit on in his 20+ years with the Mavs.

Jalen Brunson? DSJ*? Jae Crowder? Do you count finding undrafted gems like Barea, DFS, and Maxi Kleber as picks? Cause I sorta do. Look Donnie isn't a savant at the draft like he is at trades. BUT when he gets a feeling on a guy, it's usually right, and he does everything he can to get him. See: Dirk, Luka, Giannis (before Cubes overruled him). Mavs aren't completely incompetent at the draft now like they were from 2005-2011. They at least try. 

*I get that DSJ is 1 stop away from China in NYK, but here he was a 15ppg high flying guard that turned into KP. So before you lament on the pick take that into consideration.

[radioaktiv]

Was Josh Howard a lottery pick?  I had no idea.  Those are guys and Devin Harris are the only NBA players in the draft that Donnie has hit on in his 20+ years with the Mavs.

The point is that you had to compare the 2 best Mavs pick against a bunch of non-lottery picks to dismiss our office's ability to find stars when they have high enough picks.  Mavs didn't do well in the non-lottery draft historically, that's a known fact.  But to throw things around like "for every 1 good pick, 15 bad" while using incomparable groups is just bad argument.  It would be fine if you were comparing Luka, Dirk, and Devin against Samaki Walker and DSJ for example, but I guess that isn't sensational enough for your narrative.

[embellisher]

I think this is spot on.  He might look just slightly better than last night in a lineup next to Luka. 

With that said, we are a little thin at backup ball handler should Luka or Brunson go down.  It isn't the worst idea in the world to throw him into the deep end and see if he has any playmaking in him.  It is after all the preseason.  Of course, it is hard for a playoff team to count on anything from a second round pick in what would be his sophomore year.  If he's ready to play "the Burke role" a couple of years from now, that would be a huge victory.  Another contender for "the Burke role" might eventually be Hinton.  Good problem to have.

We have the makings of a really interesting bench, especially on nights when Burke is on.  I'm a little concerned about what happens on those Burke 1 for 10 nights.  I'm not sure where the O comes from among the remaining bench players on those nights.

Powell on the bench helps tremendously with this.

If he's not quick enough to be a starter any more, he should be able to score on the PNR with either Brunson or Burke distributing.

Against other teams benches, he should do well, opening up lanes for cutters and pulling the defense in from the 3 point line.

[embellisher]

This 1000%

Don't understand why we are making definitive statements about rookies after their first preseason game in a shortened offseason. Training camp started 12 days ago.

Because this is what we do! 

[Playmaker]

Jalen Brunson? DSJ*? Jae Crowder? Do you count finding undrafted gems like Barea, DFS, and Maxi Kleber as picks? Cause I sorta do. Look Donnie isn't a savant at the draft like he is at trades. BUT when he gets a feeling on a guy, it's usually right, and he does everything he can to get him. See: Dirk, Luka, Giannis (before Cubes overruled him). Mavs aren't completely incompetent at the draft now like they were from 2005-2011. They at least try. 

*I get that DSJ is 1 stop away from China in NYK, but here he was a 15ppg high flying guard that turned into KP. So before you lament on the pick take that into consideration.

I didn't include Jalen Brunson in the list, and forgot about Crowder.  But when speaking about Donnie's drafting record that is it as far as NBA players.   The book is still out on DSJ.   So 6 (or 7 counting DSJ) players over a 20+ years turned into NBA players.

And no, Maxi, DFS, Barea don't count unless you want to start counting all the UDFA that the Mavs missed on.  Unearthing those player was shear luck by the Mavs and development by Carlisle.  If the Mavs believed in those players talent that much they would have simply drafted them.

Moreover, I know that all of Mavs fan's love the story about Giannis and Donnie's affection for him.  But when did we start hearing that story probably one or two years into Giannis career?  This was during the time many Mavs fans  complaining their failures in the draft. 

I have never seen one draft board showing their true thoughts or any evidence to back up that story.  If Donnie believed in Giannis so much why did he pound the table for him?  So are we sure that wasn't just a CYA (cover your ass) story.

There was probably some interest in Giannis (like all international players) but to what extent who knows.

---

The point is that you had to compare the 2 best Mavs pick against a bunch of non-lottery picks to dismiss our office's ability to find stars when they have high enough picks.  Mavs didn't do well in the non-lottery draft historically, that's a known fact.  But to throw things around like "for every 1 good pick, 15 bad" while using incomparable groups is just bad argument.  It would be fine if you were comparing Luka, Dirk, and Devin against Samaki Walker and DSJ for example, but I guess that isn't sensational enough for your narrative.

When did I say anything about stars?  For every 1 NBA player that drafted they have had 15 players (slight hyperbole but not probably not that far off) that don't make an NBA roster anywhere.

[Mavsfan12]

Well, but I'd argue that simply drafting three rookies (carrying FOUR to start the season) is so much less "win now" than we expected. I interpreted this entire off-season as confirmation that they understand they're not very close. That's a REALLY good thing, imo. 

They should absolutely fight and claw to maintain their foothold in the playoffs, and if at all possible, they should try to improve on last season's results. But, I was pleasantly surprised that they bought in on some young players and see committed to developing them. You guys get that none of them even have to contribute in the playoffs for this team to improve this year, right? I think they did an outstanding job of balancing their need to be competitive now (but not really) with their need to get more talented and athletic as they move into the future (which was the real need).

Great post!  This was a great offseason for this fact:  flexibility.  They aren't doing the same ol bring in aging vets - they are growing a pipeline of price controlled and upward mobile talent, while keeping options open for the offseason.  I believe firmly that the Mavs will go all in and never sniff capspace again for many years.  They have bullets to fire, and a whole lot of ammo being forged in our young guns.  Future is BRIGHT!

[SleepingHero]

I didn't include Jalen Brunson in the list, and forgot about Crowder.  But when speaking about Donnie's drafting record that is it as far as NBA players.   The book is still out on DSJ.   So 6 (or 7 counting DSJ) players over a 20+ years turned into NBA players.

And no, Maxi, DFS, Barea don't count unless you want to start counting all the UDFA that the Mavs missed on.  Unearthing those player was shear luck by the Mavs and development by Carlisle.  If the Mavs believed in those players talent that much they would have simply drafted them.

I see what you're saying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that the Mavericks are a historically good drafting team. They aren't. They've openly said they do not care about the draft in the past. It has shown in the picks they made, especially between 2006-2012. 

But you also have to acknowledge that there has ben an attitude shift regarding the draft from the Mavs in recent history. 2012 and 2013 they traded Zeller and Olynyk to trade down for Cunningham, and Larkin (Though they managed to get Crowder here). This was during the height of plan powder, and it was clear that the Mavs couldn't care less about building through the draft. 2014 they didn't make any selection, instead opting to trade for Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton. 

But in 2015, after multiple free agent strikeouts, the Mavs started to at least try with Justin Anderson, who looked like he could be a future rotation player. He was later used to obtain Nerlens, but that's beside the point. In 2016, they again didn't have any selection because of trades. 2017 in the height of the tank, they nabbed DSJ, 2018 they stole Luka+Brunson. 2019 no pick from the Luka trade. 2020 we all know. 

So since 2012, the Mavs have made 13 picks. Lets not count the 2020 rookies since its way to early to definitely say anything from them. So back to 10. Of the 10 picks they made, they grabbed Luka, Brunson, Crowder, and DSJ. So 4/10, which is a pretty incredible hit rate given how much of a crapshoot the draft is. 

And that's before getting into the undrafted gems they found to keep them afloat with DFS, Kleber, and Yogi. 

Needless to say, Donnie isn't useless when he focuses on the draft. Historically the Mavs do NOT focus on the draft. However, I'm hopeful that they turned the page in how they view the draft.

[fifteenth]

And no, Maxi, DFS, Barea don't count unless you want to start counting all the UDFA that the Mavs missed on.  Unearthing those player was shear luck by the Mavs and development by Carlisle.  If the Mavs believed in those players talent that much they would have simply drafted them.

This is just silly. What batting average should a team have with UDFAs? And somehow you turn hitting on UDFAs as a negative. 

Assessing Mavs drafts isn't that difficult. They've had some bad stretches and they've had some good drafts. They're not the best and they're not the worst, but they've been good enough in spurts to provide a good product on the floor. Fortunately they're on a pretty good run at the moment. If the Mavs put a champion together (which might happen) then I guess you can complain about their drafting in the parade thread too.

[fifteenth]

I mean, I'm not even against complaining. I complained about their drafting during the plan powder years, because they had developed a philosophy of punting drafts. But they stopped doing that a few years ago and have drafted pretty well since then. I could go back and complain about the plan powder era drafting too, I guess...I mean, I hated it...but I've already spent a million words on that topic, and we're not in that era anymore. 

It just doesn't make sense, to me anyway, to rehearse their draft punting era because of how a second rounder did in his first two preseason games as a pro.