EXTENSION: Gobert signs 5yr/$205M w/ UTA | DAL "significant interest" if available

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...1426265088

[Branduil]

It's almost like if you give a max deal to a guy who can't guard the perimeter you're forced to play him no matter what and then teams like the Clippers can go small and exploit you.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...1426265088

Seems like a pretty shit plan when Mann has 20 points in a quarter and you don't adjust.

[Kammrath]

It's almost like if you give a max deal to a guy who can't guard the perimeter you're forced to play him no matter what and then teams like the Clippers can go small and exploit you.

Gobert actually is not that bad on the perimeter, the problem is that the team DEPENDS on his rim protection to be good at defense. If he doesn't back up their defenders it is a layup line. Gobert suffers in the playoffs from not having better defenders around him.

[Branduil]

Gobert actually is not that bad on the perimeter, the problem is that the team DEPENDS on his rim protection to be good at defense. If he doesn't back up their defenders it is a layup line. Gobert suffers in the playoffs from not having better defenders around him.

Yes, but it's also true that it's hard to afford good perimeter defenders if you spend max money on a center.


I don't think Gobert is worse on perimeter defense than Embiid or certainly Jokic. But the difference with those guys is if you go small they're going to absolutely demolish you inside. Gobert, like KP, has no post-game, and thus they have no way to punish teams who go small.

[sliver91]

Yes, but it's also true that it's hard to afford good perimeter defenders if you spend max money on a center.


I don't think Gobert is worse on perimeter defense than Embiid or certainly Jokic. But the difference with those guys is if you go small they're going to absolutely demolish you inside. Gobert, like KP, has no post-game, and thus they have no way to punish teams who go small.

And thats the reason getting better defens and rimprotection out of KP is only half the way. He needs to get a postgame thats above avarage, no matter if it is efficiant in todays game. If the best interier defender in the nba in gobert cant impact the game in the play offs against a 5 out offens KP cant either, no matter how well he moves on defense. The only way to beat 5 out is punish them with high efficancy on offense through your big. 40% to 45% 3-point precentage needs about 65% to 70% 2-point percentage.

[KillerLeft]

I think some good points are being made on both sides of the Gobert debate. Like @"Kammrath", I'm a believer in how he affects the game, but...with his salary locked into place (even if you think he's worth it) it's going to be REALLY difficult to find that truly alpha offensive player to pair with him. Mitchell isn't it, I don't think. 

If you have a top 5-7 guy in place, and then you max Gobert, I think that could work. The order of operations matters, I think, which is why I've been so bummed about KP's poor play. The Mavs worked so hard to position themselves to be flexible while Luka was cheap, and the one commitment they made backfired, undoing all of that work. Now, that portion of Luka's career is over and the team is basically still in the same position it was in when he got here, other than some great work by Carlisle and his staff to develop DFS, Brunson, Kleber, THJ, etc (as much as they can be developed). 

I think the takeaway from this year long Gobert debate, for me, is this: building a championship team is really freaking difficult. There are no easy answers, and nothing is black and white or binary.

[Kammrath]

If you have a top 5-7 guy in place, and then you max Gobert, I think that could work. The order of operations matters

Yep agree with this....this is why I wanted him DAL and thought UTA might not do it.

[Branduil]

My very simple opinion is that I don't think you can max a center who can't punish small ball. Spending so much money on a guy that you're forced to play him, only for teams to render him impotent with small ball in the playoffs, is a bad move.

The ONLY way both KP and Gobert can live up to their contracts now is if they find a way to counter small ball that is so effective teams abandon the tactic. Otherwise it will happen every year.

[KillerLeft]

My very simple opinion is that I don't think you can max a center who can't punish small ball. Spending so much money on a guy that you're forced to play him, only for teams to render him impotent with small ball in the playoffs, is a bad move.

The ONLY way both KP and Gobert can live up to their contracts now is if they find a way to counter small ball that is so effective teams abandon the tactic. Otherwise it will happen every year.

I agree with this, but I don't think we've learned definitively that Gobert can't be played in a way that punishes small ball. I also don't think just any team can simply decide to go small and neutralize him. I have a VERY high opinion of how the Clippers' roster is built.

[Branduil]

I agree with this, but I don't think we've learned definitively that Gobert can't be played in a way that punishes small ball. I also don't think just any team can simply decide to go small and neutralize him. I have a VERY high opinion of how the Clippers' roster is built.

It's possible, but it's not like this is the first time teams have gone small to counter Gobert, see the Rockets in previous years.

[StepBackJay]

If you want to close this thread now that I've been fully vindicated finally, I understand Kamm.

Gobert is a great regular season player but not a top 10 player because he's a liaibility in the playoffs.

Eventually to win a title these days you will have to beat a small lineup and Jazz can't do it with Gobert out there. So there you have it.

Aside.from that real top 10 guys include guys that can get a bucket in the playoffs and Gobert will never be that type of.player.

The Jazz are fortunate to have a very good team despite paying so much money to Gobert but he can't play in crunch time against a small lineup. Sorry to be so right but I can't help it!

[dirkfansince1998]

Ayton is the first center that forces the Clippers to go big. Quicker than Gobert or KP on the perimeter. Can defend swiches and close out on shooters.
Even more important. He punishes smaller defenders in the paint.

[SleepingHero]

Ayton is the first center that forces the Clippers to go big. Quicker than Gobert or KP on the perimeter. Can defend swiches and close out on shooters.
Even more important. He punishes smaller defenders in the paint.

Ayton is a beast.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/stat...8523068422

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/kylecohenNBA/status/...6140851210

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...8125989898

[cow]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...8125989898

They could put together an enticing package:  Wiggins expiring, Wiseman, Poole and they have all of their FRPs save for 2024.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/realOCsports/status/...5411941376

https://twitter.com/realOCsports/status/...6636588032

[cow]

Tough situation for Utah.   Rudy is far more likely to be loyal.  For all his warts, you know what he is.  You could try to appease Donovan but he could bail on you like DWill.  You also have to be wondering if he is "that guy".  If it were me, I'd blow it all up and start from scratch.  I'm just not sold on either guy.  I understand wanting to lean in Donovan's direction, but I'd probably favor Gobert if I had to pick one.  It's Utah after all so loyalty matters.