Naji Marshall Signs Extension W/DAL

[SleepingHero]

I am not that concerned about timelines or even fit. When you have a talent like Flagg management always has to battle two timelines.

Flagg is good enough to strongly contend for a title now.

He is also young enough where 5 years from now he still will be 2 years from his prime. So in a way it is too early to worry too much about fit.

The reality is that a lot of the players be they 19 or 28 will not be around 5 years from now as management fiddles to get the best combination around Flagg. There is no exact science.

All I know is that we got two very good folks in the front office. Sure Stevens or Presti might be better but we weren’t getting them. If we can’t be patient and trust these guys be it this extension or anything else, who are we going to be happy with?

Let’s see what they do with all the assets that they have now and how it plays out in the next 3 years.

Right now, today, based off of how he played his rookie season, I don't think Flagg is ready to contend. Which isn't a knock. It took Wemby 3 years before he was ready to truly contend. 

What is crazy is that Flagg in 3 years time will only be 22, and theoretically ready to play at least a decade of contending level basketball. 

So I don't think there is a rush to be ready by next year. And Naji's deal is flexible enough with the descending aspect that I don't think they will feel trapped with in the next 2 years.

[mvossman]

I don’t see any reason whatsoever to say this isn’t a good team until we see them in action. It’s not just a matter of seeing how rookies and guys new to the NBA (i.e. Tarik) look initially and develop, how the developmental flyers like Sasser and Risacher improve, how much Flagg leaps forward and how much Kyrie looks like his old self. It’s how May meshes the whole thing together and how the chemistry develops. I do get a strong sense that the guys like each other. My favorite thing about last year aside from Flagg’s exponential growth was how the veteran players (nearly all of them African American) embraced, supported, and encouraged a white American rookie - which probably says as much about who Flagg is as a person as well as his undeniable ability - not to mention the character of the vets.

There are plenty of reasons.  The team was in the lottery the last two years.  Most of the additions are young to very young requiring a lot of development, and development rarely equals good.  The team is lacking in overall talent (especially creation) and roster is unbalanced.  There is a reason Vegas/Fan duel has the over/under at 35 wins.  There are a lot of what ifs (good and bad) and this team can certainly improve on those expectations.  42 wins would be a huge improvement over last season (16 wins) and Vegas expectations (7 wins) and still not be considered a good team.

[windjc]

There are plenty of reasons.  The team was in the lottery the last two years.  Most of the additions are young to very young requiring a lot of development, and development rarely equals good.  The team is lacking in overall talent (especially creation) and roster is unbalanced.  There is a reason Vegas/Fan duel has the over/under at 35 wins.  There are a lot of what ifs (good and bad) and this team can certainly improve on those expectations.  42 wins would be a huge improvement over last season (16 wins) and Vegas expectations (7 wins) and still not be considered a good team.

About 3/4ths of the way through this season I’m going to keep posting “told you so” until someone else that you don’t have blocked responds by quoting my post. 

It’s going to be glorious.

[Scott41theMavs]

There are plenty of reasons.  The team was in the lottery the last two years.  Most of the additions are young to very young requiring a lot of development, and development rarely equals good.  The team is lacking in overall talent (especially creation) and roster is unbalanced.  There is a reason Vegas/Fan duel has the over/under at 35 wins.  There are a lot of what ifs (good and bad) and this team can certainly improve on those expectations.  42 wins would be a huge improvement over last season (16 wins) and Vegas expectations (7 wins) and still not be considered a good team.

While I generally disagree, sending Seva back to freaking Russia probably cost at least a win or two.

[F Gump]

Having had time to digest the Naji deal, at that price it feels to me like an overpay in this current market at that price. Did they need him badly enough to overpay? That's hard to see. Or maybe it was an attempt to keep him as an "asset" to sell later, but if so, I like it even less (I only like that when it's clearly at a bargain price).

Maybe they have some grand plan, with a big deal on the burner that will shuffle the roster and then this will make more sense. If so, it sure escapes my ability to see it coming.

But for now, it gives me vibes like some of the "just because we can" deals of the past, that didn't seem to have a reason other than to "lock up an asset." And then not far down the road, the Mavs wish they could take it all back, and we spend YEARS wishing for someone to take the player because his bloated contract is killing the ability to do anything. I'm thinking THJ, Maxi, Hardy, and more. Ugh.

[Scott41theMavs]

Having had time to digest the Naji deal, at that price it feels to me like an overpay in this current market at that price. Did they need him badly enough to overpay? That's hard to see. Or maybe it was an attempt to keep him as an "asset" to sell later, but if so, I like it even less (I only like that when it's clearly at a bargain price).

Maybe they have some grand plan, with a big deal on the burner that will shuffle the roster and then this will make more sense. If so, it sure escapes my ability to see it coming.

But for now, it gives me vibes like some of the "just because we can" deals of the past, that didn't seem to have a reason other than to "lock up an asset." And then not far down the road, the Mavs wish they could take it all back, and we spend YEARS wishing for someone to take the player because his bloated contract is killing the ability to do anything. I'm thinking THJ, Maxi, Hardy, and more. Ugh.

Well, it has been observed that when it comes to trades, Masai is the grand negotiator, whereas when it comes to contracts, he is the great big simp.

[DallasMaverick]

Well, it has been observed that when it comes to trades, Masai is the grand negotiator, whereas when it comes to contracts, he is the great big simp.

So, you’re saying the Masai honeymoon is over, then?

He’s human? And makes mistakes sometimes?

Dang it.

[Scott41theMavs]

So, you’re saying the Masai honeymoon is over, then?

He’s human? And makes mistakes sometimes?

Dang it.

He ain’t perfect, but he’s a hell of a lot better than your hero Nico.

[KillerLeft]

Well, it has been observed that when it comes to trades, Masai is the grand negotiator, whereas when it comes to contracts, he is the great big simp.

I don't remember the specific timeline very clearly, but I seem to recall a growing sentiment after 2019, when Kawhi Leonard didn't re-sign, that he also held onto his players too long instead of moving them to take a slight step back in order to open the way forward, too. All of those guys were shopped constantly, but the only one he pulled the trigger on was Annonuby, and that was probably because he got a king's ransom from a highly motivated NY team in exchange. 

Don't get me wrong - you don't want to give good players away, but holding onto a roster that doesn't fit together because teams aren't offering what you want is a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face in my book. Maybe the Mavs' plan will make sense soon, but the TOR plan from back then got stuck in a waiting game and I kind of feel like that's eventually what got him fired.

[Scott41theMavs]

I don't remember the specific timeline very clearly, but I seem to recall a growing sentiment after 2019, when Kawhi Leonard didn't re-sign, that he also held onto his players too long instead of moving them to take a slight step back in order to open the way forward, too. All of those guys were shopped constantly, but the only one he pulled the trigger on was Annonuby, and that was probably because he got a king's ransom from a highly motivated NY team in exchange. 

Don't get me wrong - you don't want to give good players away, but holding onto a roster that doesn't fit together because teams aren't offering what you want is a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face in my book. Maybe the Mavs' plan will make sense soon, but the TOR plan from back then got stuck in a waiting game and I kind of feel like that's eventually what got him fired.

Well, they hired the best available. It would have been nice if they go the best unavailable, but that can be challenging.

[loki]

Well, it has been observed that when it comes to trades, Masai is the grand negotiator, whereas when it comes to contracts, he is the great big simp.

Yep. And he's off to a great start here with Naji. 

https://x.com/OmerOsman200/status/2045322408391811238

I'd warn everyone that Caleb Martin is extension eligible, but he's not 6'7" so we might be in the clear.
aded him to the teamads he wanted

[cow]

So, you’re saying the Masai honeymoon is over, then?

I love the player, I like the move (extension) and the descending structure of the contract and I do believe he deserves a raise, but I don't think Ujiri stuck the landing on the contract numbers.  The first chink in his armor.  Like I posted earlier, this probably shifted Naji's asset value from positive to neutral or I could see arguing slightly to the left or right of neutral.  The numbers aren't disastrous, but I do think it locks Naji into the roster for at least the next two years, maybe even three, before the contract becomes easy to flip again.

[loki]

I love the player, I like the move (extension) and the descending structure of the contract and I do believe he deserves a raise, but I don't think Ujiri stuck the landing on the contract numbers.  The first chink in his armor.  Like I posted earlier, this probably shifted Naji's asset value from positive to neutral or I could see arguing slightly to the left or right of neutral.  The numbers aren't disastrous, but I do think it locks Naji into the roster for at least the next two years, maybe even three, before the contract becomes easy to flip again.

Last trade deadline was probably the highest Naji's value will ever be. He was playing high minutes and putting up great numbers on a bargain contract that would last for 2 potential playoff runs. The only concrete offer I remember hearing is that the Cavs were willing to give up 2nds. 

Naji is probably still worth those 2nds, but only if a similar amount of guaranteed money is coming back the Mavs way. He's also a slightly tricky fit for a lot of teams due to the poor 3pt shot. It would take a pretty specific situation for a trade to be possible, so I agree he'll be in Dallas for quite a while.

[Dundalis]

Sorry but this is a not an accurate take. This team is deeper and more talented (without Coop) than the one that went to the championship with Luka. Coop could equal Luka soon enough. 

Do the math.

I would say in terms of starters it might be, I think the bench talent while likely superior in pure talent, will have far less experience and polish. But I think it highlights the difference in what is required building around Luka, vs building around even prime Coop. Luka's freakish ability to single handedly run an offense, means you can get away with less ball handling, playmaking and even shot creating support around him and still contend cause he can do every element on ball creation wise that you need every minute hes on the court at an elite level. He can just have a bunch of dudes standing in corners with zero self creation and win games as long as they can shoot some and defend (obviously having someone like Kyrie helps him go much further). I don't think that will be the case with Coop even in his prime. He will need far more support in terms of ball handlers, playmakers and shot creators than Luka did I think. Maybe not far more, but definitely more.

I'm not concerned atm, because I think we are doing asset acquisition right now, not trying to find the perfect pieces to fit long term with Coop. But it will need to be a real target in terms of player acquisition over the next 2-3 years, because there just isn't enough of it in the team IMO, and obviously Kyrie is gonna start slowing down at some point (or maybe he does a Steph who knows).

Given Coops need for more self creators and playmakers than I think a team built around Luka would have needed, I'm a bit more onboard with Naji's extension, even if I 100% think it is an overpay.

While it would be nice to see some of the young guys take big steps and show something this season, the team results are likely to be primarily predicated on whether Coop takes a Luka like second year leap, or something a bit more modest and obviously stays healthy. Im backing in the former.

[windjc]

I would say in terms of starters it might be, I think the bench talent while likely superior in pure talent, will have far less experience and polish. But I think it highlights the difference in what is required building around Luka, vs building around even prime Coop. Luka's freakish ability to single handedly run an offense, means you can get away with less ball handling, playmaking and even shot creating support around him and still contend cause he can do every element on ball creation wise that you need every minute hes on the court at an elite level. He can just have a bunch of dudes standing in corners with zero self creation and win games as long as they can shoot some and defend (obviously having someone like Kyrie helps him go much further). I don't think that will be the case with Coop even in his prime. He will need far more support in terms of ball handlers, playmakers and shot creators than Luka did I think. Maybe not far more, but definitely more.

I'm not concerned atm, because I think we are doing asset acquisition right now, not trying to find the perfect pieces to fit long term with Coop. But it will need to be a real target in terms of player acquisition over the next 2-3 years, because there just isn't enough of it in the team IMO, and obviously Kyrie is gonna start slowing down at some point (or maybe he does a Steph who knows).

Given Coops need for more self creators and playmakers than I think a team built around Luka would have needed, I'm a bit more onboard with Naji's extension, even if I 100% think it is an overpay.

While it would be nice to see some of the young guys take big steps and show something this season, the team results are likely to be primarily predicated on whether Coop takes a Luka like second year leap, or something a bit more modest and obviously stays healthy. Im backing in the former.

Everything you say could be true and it would not change the fact that Cooper is more likely to win a Championship than Luka because Luka ball is the only option with Luka and one that isn’t good enough to win a ship because of how hard it is to build a defense around Luka and because Luka bares tooooo much if the creative load for his body to handle.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Everything you say could be true and it would not change the fact that Cooper is more likely to win a Championship than Luka because Luka ball is the only option with Luka and one that isn’t good enough to win a ship because of how hard it is to build a defense around Luka and because Luka bares tooooo much if the creative load for his body to handle.

I think it's too early for this kind of stuffs... Luka played a WCF and the Finals with good/nor great team before Harrison move.

We will see Flagg...

[Dundalis]

Everything you say could be true and it would not change the fact that Cooper is more likely to win a Championship than Luka because Luka ball is the only option with Luka and one that isn’t good enough to win a ship because of how hard it is to build a defense around Luka and because Luka bares tooooo much if the creative load for his body to handle.

I don't think it is that hard to build a defense around Luka, unless you are a very asset poor team and don't have a very good FO. Which the Mavs were throughout pretty much his whole tenure, and the Lakers are currently. I also think even with being so asset poor, if we had someone like Masai in charge 5 years ago, we would have acquired superior defensive support and just talent in general for Luka's deepest playoff runs to get over the line. Not to mention a coach with any clue how to build any type of functioning offense that doesn't rely on your best offensive player to simply figure it out himself.

At this point Flagg is probably more likely to win a ring, because he obviously has more years left in his career, but also has a far more competent FO than Luka ever had (early call or not, Im making it), who will hopefully do a better job building the roster around him, and hopefully a better coach. I know Luka had Carlisle for 3 years, but the roster wasn't ready yet to genuinely contend.

[DallasMaverick]

I don't think it is that hard to build a defense around Luka, unless you are a very asset poor team and don't have a very good FO. Which the Mavs were throughout pretty much his whole tenure, and the Lakers are currently. I also think even with being so asset poor, if we had someone like Masai in charge 5 years ago, we would have acquired superior defensive support and just talent in general for Luka's deepest playoff runs to get over the line. Not to mention a coach with any clue how to build any type of functioning offense that doesn't rely on your best offensive player to simply figure it out himself.

At this point Flagg is probably more likely to win a ring, because he obviously has more years left in his career, but also has a far more competent FO than Luka ever had (early call or not, Im making it), who will hopefully do a better job building the roster around him, and hopefully a better coach. I know Luka had Carlisle for 3 years, but the roster wasn't ready yet to genuinely contend.

If coach would have put me in fourth quarter, we’d have been state champions. No doubt!

[cow]

I don't think it is that hard to build a defense around Luka, unless you are a very asset poor team and don't have a very good FO. Which the Mavs were throughout pretty much his whole tenure, and the Lakers are currently. I also think even with being so asset poor, if we had someone like Masai in charge 5 years ago, we would have acquired superior defensive support and just talent in general for Luka's deepest playoff runs to get over the line. Not to mention a coach with any clue how to build any type of functioning offense that doesn't rely on your best offensive player to simply figure it out himself.

At this point Flagg is probably more likely to win a ring, because he obviously has more years left in his career, but also has a far more competent FO than Luka ever had (early call or not, Im making it), who will hopefully do a better job building the roster around him, and hopefully a better coach. I know Luka had Carlisle for 3 years, but the roster wasn't ready yet to genuinely contend.

It will be overshadowed by the Luka trade, but the KP trade and how we managed him during his tenure is almost as disastrous and that's not even including the THJ extension.

[mvossman]

It will be overshadowed by the Luka trade, but the KP trade and how we managed him during his tenure is almost as disastrous and that's not even including the THJ extension.

I don't think its even close.  It was a bad trade but just look at the results, after KP trade Mavs go on to have the most playoff success in over 10 years.  After Luka trade they go from finals to lottery.  They probably didn't manage him perfectly, but they guy himself made comments that most of it was his fault.  He was never going to be that number 2 guy the Mavs needed.  He was like the 4th option on that Boston team (when he played) and it didn't seem to matter if he was on the court or not, and he missed like half his games the last three years.  

For recent failures, I would argue the Brunson fiasco was way worse than KP.