SL Game 5: Dallas Mavericks vs. NY Knicks | 7:30PM CST | PRIME

[FireNicoHarrison]

In this era a player from Euroleague basketball is far away more ready than a college kid, i'm not Surprise to see Ish and Sergio play in this way. They are ahead in BBIQ and exp.

The big difference from Europe is the size and the athletism, if they will challenge his opponents even in NBA then they can play.

[Smitty]

I hope someone watched Ish very well this time... Comparing him to that freaking Josh Green was a completely mess.

Picking something as mundane as "afraid to shoot the 3-ball" as a comp for Green is logically outrageous.

I don't know why I'm responding to either of you. Reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits. Mentioning Josh Green wasn't to make an exact comparison. It was to talk about the archetype or kind of role player Ish might be at the next level. Here is the exact quote so you can read it again. Slowly.

I can see a future role for him in the NBA. A Josh Green type. He's probably a better passer. Reluctant, but accurate 3PT shooter. Hustle guy. Can play some defense on the perimeter. Handle some at the next level. Rarely 'finish' a play... and have you wanting for more.

The last part there is an attempt at a joke. To lighten any criticism. There's some truth to it though. I started calling him "almost" because he would be in the right spot, make the right read, but rarely finish the play. Like Green, he kind of had me wanting for more... 

But forget Josh Green. I used that name mostly because he was a recent Mavs role player. A similar archetype and some other similarities in play style is Naji Marshall. Again, this is not meant as an exact comparison. BUT in the things he does well, so does Naji. Handle the ball like a PG. Drive and get to the rim. Hustle and play solid defense. Etc, etc.

Here is everything I've said about Ish:

On the Ishchenko front. I find it very difficult to have a firm opinion either way. We're talking about the 18th player on the squad. I don't know that he's more deserving than anyone else that showed some flashes. I guess what I'm saying is I could make an argument for a number of guys. Ish included... But he's the new kid on the block, and a recent draft pick from the new MBT. He may have an edge for that alone.

ROLE. That's all I ever use SL for. Is to try and see what role these guys might fill at the NBA level. He may never get a minute in the NBA. Never be as good as Josh Green. That wasn't really my point. I do envision a role player 'in that mold' for him though. After watching a whopping 4 SL games....

I'd love to be wrong. None of us know anything for sure. It's just what I've seen with my eyes so far... Today would be a great day for him to shoot 5+ from deep. In 28 mpg he's averaging 1 3PA/g. International stats say 1.5 3PA/g. Don't know how you could assume anything different at the moment.

Nitpicking more than anything... It wasn't meant to be an exact comparison. Just what came to mind after watching him. I want to like all of these guys as much as anybody.
Ish will need one pretty elite NBA skill to get on the floor. Right now, I don't know what that is. He does a lot of things well. So far, his handle is probably the best individual skill of his. Will likely need to be a very good defender at the next level to get any kind of playing time early in his career.

Yeah, I think that will need to be his calling card early on. He's active. Switchable, with good length.
I guess some took the Green "comparison" as a negative.... Like I said earlier, if he's as good as Green -- it will be a home run pick.

I didn’t watch the last SL game. Tried to but had to turn it off a few minutes in. Terrible basketball. Seva had 27 minutes and another 1 3PA game. For a team that needs spacing, he won’t be the one providing it any time soon. Makes J. Green and Naji’s 3 3PA/g look elite by comparison.
Not everything is about 3PT shooting, of course. He does a lot well. Looks like he belongs on the court. If I were the decision maker I’d want him on a Two-Way.
Just feels like if you’re not hyping up every draft pick as a future star or even a rotational player, somehow you’re blind and don’t know what your talking about. We should just keep things in perspective is all. He was the 56th pick. If he’s ever a rotational player it will be a massive win.

He doesn’t finish at the rim well at all. Terrible actually. He doesn’t rebound well. At least not contested rebounds. I didn’t pay much attention to POA defense to have a firm opinion there. He was active and switchable on the perimeter though. In the post it was shaky. Needs to add strength, obviously. He can dribble and pass. Won’t shoot. Has a high turnover rate though. Not worried about it, but 3.0 ast / 3.4 tov isn’t good…

The last one there... Rebounds. Someone said I didn't know what I was talking about there also. I don't know what his rebounding stats were in International play or SL. What I'm talking about is what I alluded to earlier. That he's seemingly always in the right spot, but doesn't finish the play. Several times I felt like he was in a position to grab the board, only to just miss out. Over and over again. Which is what lead to me wanting to nickname him "almost" in the first place.

I said in an earlier post, in a different thread, that I'd stop with any criticism. It's clearly not a popular thing to do this time of year. We all have hopes and dreams of each of these guys being Mavericks for a long time. Helping Coop and Co. win multiple championships. 

I am one of those dreamers!

[DallasMaverick]

Maybe we need three separate sections for this board:

The 0-82 crowd, where we can post all the reasons why the Mavs are complete losers and have no hope,

The 82-0 crowd, where we can explain why the Mavs will set new records for wins, and

The moderate middle crowd, that sees great potential as well as significant challenges.

Realistically, does anyone here really believe they’ll be outside the 30-50 win range?

[windjc]

Maybe we need three separate sections for this board:

The 0-82 crowd, where we can post all the reasons why the Mavs are complete losers and have no hope,

The 82-0 crowd, where we can explain why the Mavs will set new records for wins, and

The moderate middle crowd, that sees great potential as well as significant challenges.

Realistically, does anyone here really believe they’ll be outside the 30-50 win range?

Can we refine it further? I don’t care what the win total is. The NBA is about getting to the playoffs. Then the season actually begins. 

The regular season IS preseason.

[mvossman]

It´s crazy that Ishchenko gets so much criticism for not shooting enough on 43/40/61, while De Larrea shooting 27/20/88 is barely mentioned. Now I´m not concerned about either. It´s a new country, new court dimension, new teammates. My biggest problem is his FT percentage given how frequently he got to the line. Also he does not rebound enough? 4.3 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 0.8 BPG for a SG/SF? Not sure what the expectations are there. I think even though he does not look like it, he´s a bit of a careless showman with his passing and turnovers. Oh for all the people that miss Luka, he talks A LOT to the refs. Must be decent at English and not exactly a sign of being Josh Green.

To answer your first question, its because shooting percentage is way too noisy a stat to get anything from the small sample of summer league.  In fact about the only stat that has any carry over from summer league to NBA is shot attempts.  In addition I was looking at his Russian stats which is a much bigger sample.

[Mavs2021]

To answer your first question, its because shooting percentage is way too noisy a stat to get anything from the small sample of summer league.  In fact about the only stat that has any carry over from summer league to NBA is shot attempts.  In addition I was looking at his Russian stats which is a much bigger sample.

Your European sample size is less than < 50 games for both guys. It´s also pro leagues with livelihoods of dozens of people depending on wins and losses. They are not going to let young guys chuck away threes at 28%, so we don´t compare them to Josh Green. The fact that Ishchenko and De Larrea earned as many minutes as they did on top European teams speaks to their quality.

[cow]

In this era a player from Euroleague basketball is far away more ready than a college kid, i'm not Surprise to see Ish and Sergio play in this way. They are ahead in BBIQ and exp.

The big difference from Europe is the size and the athletism, if they will challenge his opponents even in NBA then they can play.

I was pleasantly surprised by Ish's athleticism and with how comfortable he is on the court, it's easy to see a path for him to get rotational minutes with the team.  Maybe he can fill in some of our need at the 2 spot.

Realistically, does anyone here really believe they’ll be outside the 30-50 win range?

Really feels like a team that will scratch and claw it's way to a .500 record, Kyrie's health willing.

[mvossman]

Your European sample size is less than < 50 games for both guys. It´s also pro leagues with livelihoods of dozens of people depending on wins and losses. They are not going to let young guys chuck away threes at 28%, so we don´t compare them to Josh Green. The fact that Ishchenko and De Larrea earned as many minutes as they did on top European teams speaks to their quality.

That is a much bigger sample than summer league and as mentioned that stat does not need a lot of sample.  Your argument does not explain Sergio shot attempt rate, and Seva hit 45% from 3 so not sure what the 28% comment is about.

[Mavs2021]

That is a much bigger sample than summer league and as mentioned that stat does not need a lot of sample.  Your argument does not explain Sergio shot attempt rate, and Seva hit 45% from 3 so not sure what the 28% comment is about.

It´s a comment on the fact that maybe to get playing time in Europe it was better for Seva to shoot 45% from three on 1.5 attempts per game than to chuck seven threes a game for 28% and get benched. All so he can show he does not have the Josh Green gene.

[FireNicoHarrison]

Ish can shoot with the 10% for 3 but he is still a better player than Josh Green... But it's not an insurance to be an NBA player in the future.