GAME 48: DAL (29-19) @ HOU (30-18) | 121-128 loss

[MrGoat]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

[hakeemfan]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

You go short, we”ll go shorter.

[dirkfansince1998]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

[hakeemfan]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

Hou may have still lost if the Mavs guarded Westbrook and allowed him to shoot 3s. They may have still lost if the Mavs took advantage of WCS being open many times.  They may still lost if we went with more size with Maxi from the start. 

If they are hit unconsciously from 3 I can understand. In our rush to match up with them and thoughtless defensive rotations we were giving up 3s and 2s.

[Sigma4Life]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

That’s not true. The Mavs has their best stretch of the game with WCS out there. He was a difference maker. In this case the +/- does tell the story because he was second on the team with a +8. 

He appears to be exactly what I hoped, Dwight Powell ++. He does everything Powell did on offense but he also brings rim protection and rebounding.

[dirkfansince1998]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

That’s not true. The Mavs has their best stretch of the game with WCS out there. He was a difference maker. In this case the +/- does tell the story because he was second on the team with a +8. 

He appears to be exactly what I hoped, Dwight Powell ++. He does everything Powell did on offense but he also brings rim protection and rebounding.

 
And he nearly fouled out in 11 minutes. So the option wasn´t available for more minutes. Playing Boban wasn´t an option because he cannot defend the perimeter. Maybe more Maxi because he was the only one that played good defense vs Westbrook. But the Rockets scheme heavily relied on forcing switches, driving and kicking it out to an open shooter. And it worked. I think the problem isn´t the lack of minutes for bigman. It is the lack of wing sized defenders. Without Luka the only real wing sized defender the Mavs have is DFS. I actually thought that Broehoff did a good job as well. But that´s it when it comes to wings.
Rest of the minutes go to guards (including 3 guards, 2 bigs, no wing lineups) and bigman. That´s not going to work in a switch heavy league. Mismatches all over the floor.

[hakeemfan]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

That’s not true. The Mavs has their best stretch of the game with WCS out there. He was a difference maker. In this case the +/- does tell the story because he was second on the team with a +8. 

He appears to be exactly what I hoped, Dwight Powell ++. He does everything Powell did on offense but he also brings rim protection and rebounding.

 
And he nearly fouled out in 11 minutes. So the option wasn´t available for more minutes. Playing Boban wasn´t an option because he cannot defend the perimeter. Maybe more Maxi because he was the only one that played good defense vs Westbrook. But the Rockets scheme heavily relied on forcing switches, driving and kicking it out to an open shooter. And it worked. I think the problem isn´t the lack of minutes for bigman. It is the lack of wing sized defenders. Without Luka the only real wing sized defender the Mavs have is DFS. I actually thought that Broehoff did a good job as well. But that´s it when it comes to wings.
Rest of the minutes go to guards (including 3 guards, 2 bigs, no wing lineups) and bigman. That´s not going to work in a switch heavy league. Mismatches all over the floor.

It worked because we played into their hands. If Boban could not have guarded anyone, no one could have guarded him either.  Why worry only about what your opponent can do? 

At the end of the day going small gave us zero advantage. They were able to score inside and outside.

[dirkfansince1998]

RC sucked in this game. Houston went mega small and instead of trying to take advantage of it he played into their hands and decided Bro could finally get his first start as our starting PF. Why did we acquire WCS again?

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

That’s not true. The Mavs has their best stretch of the game with WCS out there. He was a difference maker. In this case the +/- does tell the story because he was second on the team with a +8. 

He appears to be exactly what I hoped, Dwight Powell ++. He does everything Powell did on offense but he also brings rim protection and rebounding.

 
And he nearly fouled out in 11 minutes. So the option wasn´t available for more minutes. Playing Boban wasn´t an option because he cannot defend the perimeter. Maybe more Maxi because he was the only one that played good defense vs Westbrook. But the Rockets scheme heavily relied on forcing switches, driving and kicking it out to an open shooter. And it worked. I think the problem isn´t the lack of minutes for bigman. It is the lack of wing sized defenders. Without Luka the only real wing sized defender the Mavs have is DFS. I actually thought that Broehoff did a good job as well. But that´s it when it comes to wings.
Rest of the minutes go to guards (including 3 guards, 2 bigs, no wing lineups) and bigman. That´s not going to work in a switch heavy league. Mismatches all over the floor.

It worked because we played into their hands. If Boban could not have guarded anyone, no one could have guarded him either.  Why worry only about what your opponent can do? 

At the end of the day going small gave us zero advantage. They were able to score inside and outside.

21-45 on 3s makes 1.41 PPP. 70% + TS. No I don´t think the Mavs could match that with Boban in the paint. I also think that the Mavs defense would give up even more open looks with him on the floor. WCS was able to stay on the floor for 11 minutes and he has solid mobility for a bigman.
I worry because the Rockets were incredible efficient on offense with their scheme. Giving up more open baskets and completly giving up on perimeter defense wasn´t an option.

[omahen]

21-45 on 3s makes 1.41 PPP. 70% + TS

This was because our centers were guarding "parked on the corner three shooters" instead of Westbrook. This resulted in open shots everytime centers helped on drives or Westbrook post ups. Maxi was perfect against him yet they playaed that for 5 minutes only

[hakeemfan]

They already took advantage of any big the Mavs had in the game. Going big works when the opponent isn´t able to punish the Mavs from the perimeter but they buried the Mavs from the 3-point line. 21-45 makes 47% from 3 for the Rockets.

That’s not true. The Mavs has their best stretch of the game with WCS out there. He was a difference maker. In this case the +/- does tell the story because he was second on the team with a +8. 

He appears to be exactly what I hoped, Dwight Powell ++. He does everything Powell did on offense but he also brings rim protection and rebounding.

 
And he nearly fouled out in 11 minutes. So the option wasn´t available for more minutes. Playing Boban wasn´t an option because he cannot defend the perimeter. Maybe more Maxi because he was the only one that played good defense vs Westbrook. But the Rockets scheme heavily relied on forcing switches, driving and kicking it out to an open shooter. And it worked. I think the problem isn´t the lack of minutes for bigman. It is the lack of wing sized defenders. Without Luka the only real wing sized defender the Mavs have is DFS. I actually thought that Broehoff did a good job as well. But that´s it when it comes to wings.
Rest of the minutes go to guards (including 3 guards, 2 bigs, no wing lineups) and bigman. That´s not going to work in a switch heavy league. Mismatches all over the floor.

It worked because we played into their hands. If Boban could not have guarded anyone, no one could have guarded him either.  Why worry only about what your opponent can do? 

At the end of the day going small gave us zero advantage. They were able to score inside and outside.

21-45 on 3s makes 1.41 PPP. 70% + TS. No I don´t think the Mavs could match that with Boban in the paint. I also think that the Mavs defense would give up even more open looks with him on the floor. WCS was able to stay on the floor for 11 minutes and he has solid mobility for a bigman.
I worry because the Rockets were incredible efficient on offense with their scheme. Giving up more open baskets and completly giving up on perimeter defense wasn´t an option.

We have had this debate before and neither of us are changing our stances on that. 

At the end of the day going small gave us zero advantage. They got shots inside and outside at will.   We also try to outshoot other teams all the time from outside the arc, and yet have a poor record against teams over 500. Why don’t they go small against us?

We just played right into their hands.

[ItsGoTime]

You go short, we”ll go shorter.

With the exception of KP playing 35 mins (this seems like a mistake too given he just sat out 10 games), this is literally what RC said last night. Kleber with the rebounding and block game he was displaying last night getting only 13 mins was a travesty. Also, why are we saving WCS's last foul? If he's gonna foul out, it's not like RC was gonna play him in crucial moments anyway.

[dirkfansince1998]

That’s not true. The Mavs has their best stretch of the game with WCS out there. He was a difference maker. In this case the +/- does tell the story because he was second on the team with a +8. 

He appears to be exactly what I hoped, Dwight Powell ++. He does everything Powell did on offense but he also brings rim protection and rebounding.

 
And he nearly fouled out in 11 minutes. So the option wasn´t available for more minutes. Playing Boban wasn´t an option because he cannot defend the perimeter. Maybe more Maxi because he was the only one that played good defense vs Westbrook. But the Rockets scheme heavily relied on forcing switches, driving and kicking it out to an open shooter. And it worked. I think the problem isn´t the lack of minutes for bigman. It is the lack of wing sized defenders. Without Luka the only real wing sized defender the Mavs have is DFS. I actually thought that Broehoff did a good job as well. But that´s it when it comes to wings.
Rest of the minutes go to guards (including 3 guards, 2 bigs, no wing lineups) and bigman. That´s not going to work in a switch heavy league. Mismatches all over the floor.

It worked because we played into their hands. If Boban could not have guarded anyone, no one could have guarded him either.  Why worry only about what your opponent can do? 

At the end of the day going small gave us zero advantage. They were able to score inside and outside.

21-45 on 3s makes 1.41 PPP. 70% + TS. No I don´t think the Mavs could match that with Boban in the paint. I also think that the Mavs defense would give up even more open looks with him on the floor. WCS was able to stay on the floor for 11 minutes and he has solid mobility for a bigman.
I worry because the Rockets were incredible efficient on offense with their scheme. Giving up more open baskets and completly giving up on perimeter defense wasn´t an option.

We have had this debate before and neither of us are changing our stances on that. 

At the end of the day going small gave us zero advantage. They got shots inside and outside at will.   We also try to outshoot other teams all the time from outside the ar. and yet have a poor record against teams over 500. Why don’t they go small against us?  

We just played right into their hands.

I am open to bigger lineups but in my opinion yesterday it would have made things worse. I agree that Maxis lack of minutes hurt the team. But that´s not because he is a big. It´s because he is our best perimeter defender.

We have a poor record against teams over 500 because most of them have more talent. The Clippers play more physical but they don´t have better bigman and go small all the time. The Rockets just beat the Mavs with PJ Tucker as their biggest player. The Bucks don´t play bigger than the Mavs. They just have more talent. The Celtics beat us with small ball. Only teams that actually have success with big lineups are the Lakers and 76ers. They also have more talent than the Mavs.

I think a lot uf us are confusing big lineups with toughness, physicality and defense. That´s what the Mavs are missing against the best teams in the league. Inserting Boban in the lineup won´t change that.

[omahen]

I just rewatched first minutes of last quarter again. Comeback happened with Kleber and WCS in, Kleber on Westbrook. Than they switched Kleber for DFS (Harden went in) instead of keeping the bigs in and bench one of the small gurds (Brunson, Seth or Wright)

[ItsGoTime]

This was the game for our littles to up their assist game and our bigs to up their 2% game. Boban would've gone 95% in the paint, if our littles would have even included him. Who would have stopped, or even slowed down 7'4" 298 lb Boban last night?

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I think a lot uf us are confusing big lineups with toughness, physicality and defense. That´s what the Mavs are missing against the best teams in the league. Inserting Boban in the lineup won´t change that.

In general I agree that we need more toughness and physicality. Last night was contrary to that. Hou wasn't paying all that physical, height is height. The entry pass to 7'4" Boban who can get to wherever on the floor he wants to go just from shear size against an at best 6'6" defender is unguardable.

[hakeemfan]

dirkfan1998...I'm not confusing size with toughness or talent. I agree we are deficient in that area (It's another discussion that players like Javale who could find no minutes here or Dwight Howard who we had no interest in would hands down be the 2 toughest interior guys on this roster if they were here).


I also totally agree with you that it's quite possible that if we went bigger we might have got completely blown out, and going small is what kept us in the game. I would have picked my poison though and if they were just unconscious from the 3, just shake their hands at the end of the game and walk away.


What we did yesterday literally allowed them to do whatever they wanted offensively without having to worry much on the defensive end themselves.

[ItsGoTime]

Also, for the most part, when KP was in, their guards drove the lane and either took it back out or passed it out. Not much testing of the 7'3" guy. Replace that with 7'4" Boban when he goes out, and I think it's more of the same thing pretty much. If we were to cut off their layups and points in the paint all game, I think that makes all the difference in the world.

[dirkfansince1998]

Also, for the most part, when KP was in, their guards drove the lane and either took it back out or passed it out. Not much testing of the 7'3" guy. Replace that with 7'4" Boban when he goes out, and I think it's more of the same thing pretty much. If we were to cut off their layups and points in the paint all game, I think that makes all the difference in the world.

Those drives collapse the defense and kicking it out to open shooters is exactly what Houston wanted to do. With Boban not able to step out of the paint to guard a hot 3-point shooter or stay in front of the only non shooter (Westbrook) I don´t think that would have worked. KP has more mobility and can contain the drive.
Watching the Mavs this season they tend to switch to a zone defense when Boban enters the floor. Doing their best to keep him out of any pick and roll action. Downside is that they expose the perimeter and that´s not really an option against a team that is hitting 20+ 3s.
The Mavs went small to prevent the initial penetration and attempted to switch the pick and roll. They wanted to avoid a defensive collapse at all costs.
Game plan obviously did not work because the Mavs don´t have the personal. Even if they go small they cannot stop the drive because the Mavs guards cannot stay in front of anyone.

[ItsGoTime]

Game plan obviously did not work because the Mavs don´t have the personal.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!


What more needs to be said?

They have the personnel to go big and make a 6'6" team pay. Make it a 155-151 win, who cares, just win with the personnel you have!

[dirkfansince1998]

Game plan obviously did not work because the Mavs don´t have the personal.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!


What more needs to be said?

They have the personnel to go big and make a 6'6" team pay. Make it a 155-151 win, who cares, just win with the personnel you have!

If it was that easy the probably would do it. Case is that sometimes the other team has the better personnel. It´s not like the Mavs did not have a chance to win. Maybe it was the perfect gameplan and it still wasn´t enough to beat a hot Rockets team.
I wonder how this board would have reacted if the Mavs lost 140-100 with Boban playing 30 minutes. Something like...why didn´t RC bench Boban. He was exposed in the pick and roll and couldn´t guard anyone on the perimeter.
In the end I haven´t seen a single gamethread after a lost game that did not include RC bashing. For whatever reason he is reponsible for every single loss but never mentioned in a win.

You sound like the Mavs should have easily won that game. What were the expectations. Mavs without Luka vs Houston with Harden and Westbrook. Vegas certainly did not favor the Mavs.

[omahen]

I wonder how this board would have reacted if the Mavs lost 140-100 with Boban playing 30 minutes. Something like...why didn´t RC bench Boban.

Of course we would. But I am also sure RC would not play Bobi for more than 5 minutes if the result wouldn't go our way. The issue some here have is, that they didn't even give it a try with Bobi, despite the small ball was obviously not working. In fact, they climbed back with two bigs on the floor and couldn't win when switched to small ball again.

---

In the end I haven´t seen a single gamethread after a lost game that did not include RC bashing. For whatever reason he is reponsible for every single loss but never mentioned in a win.

I extremely rarely comment game time coach decisions, but this one I did, because they were strange and obviously didn't work. But RC was not the only one to blame. Players made a lot of very stupid decisions in this one.