A Few Thoughts on Mavs 104, Suns 133

[mavsluvr]

Mavs Return to AAC, Lay Ostrich Egg

Yikes! The Suns delivered an old-fashioned butt-kicking to the Mavs in front of the home fans. Murphy's Law ruled the day for the boys in blue. 


Game Story

The evening began with some Kobe-related ceremonials, including a video tribute, a retirement of #24, and the 8-second/24-second violations. 

On the first real possession of the game, Porzee turned the ball over with a bad pass. Bridges missed the ensuing dunk, and the Mavs stood around watching Rubio collect the offensive board, which resulted in a Suns layup. DFS then lost the ball and Ayton went in for an alley oop. At the 10:40 mark, Rick called a timeout. It didn't help. Luka and Rick were called for technical fouls within the next 5 minutes for arguing non-calls. By the end of the first period, the Mavericks were behind 19-32. The home team were 1-11 on 3PTAs and had seven made field goals and 6 turnovers. Cauley-Stein made a 4-minute debut, which included a missed open dunk and a turnover. Indicative of the whole team's inauspicious start. 

In the second quarter, Rick broke the emergency glass and busted out Barea, in hopes of a spark. The little guard helped to stanch the bleeding with 6 points and 4 assists in 7 minutes, but was not able to engineer much in the way of a recovery. Dallas closed the half with a 10-6 mini-run, and entered the locker room down 55-60. THJ got a technical for leaving the court without permission as the half was ending. 

I thought things couldn't get worse, and boy, I couldn't have been more wrong. A total decimation in the third period. The Mavs were down by double digits within the first minute and ultimately allowed the Suns 48 points, a team record for points allowed in a quarter. The Suns led 108-77 going into the fourth. 

Rick ran the starters out for 4 minutes before yelling calf-rope. In garbage time, Boban drew some cheers from the fans still in the arena. Mercifully, the buzzer finally sounded. 


Analytics

The Suns blasted the Mavs in practically every aspect of the game. The Mavericks shot very poorly -- 21% from three. They gave up 19 points on turnovers, and surrendered 62 points in the paint. Defense was limp, and the team was out of sync, trailing the entire 48 minutes. 


Players

With the arguable exceptions of Barea and Brunson, none of the Mavs looked good. Luka had 21 points, and hit six of his seven free throws, but had 2 assists and 4 turnovers. KP played for 20 minutes in this SEGABABA, but had only 9 points and 3 boards. THJ was 3-10 from the field. DFS and Curry combined for 7 points. Just a really bad night all around. 


Remarks

Dana wondered why the Mavs looked so "sluggish and sloppy." Ced and Harp both attributed it at least partially to the ponderous mood brought on by Kobe's passing. Rick acknowledged that teams sometimes have bad nights due to extraneous circumstances, but he was not ready to write it off that easily. He plans to watch the game again, and then decide how to address it with his squad -- either to erase it from their slates, or use it as a teaching tool. Skin remarked that even the crowd seemed deflated. Whatever the cause, Carlisle termed the performance "very poor," "very disappointing," and "very ugly." He credited the Suns for coming out with so much force and conviction. 

On a positive note, Coach said he likes the WCS pick-up. WCS is very enthusiastic about joining the Mavs, and he is "a veteran with experience who can help us in stretches." Listening to all this Rick-speak, I am not sure that Carlisle plans the major role for WCS that some fans are envisioning. Remains to be seen, I guess. He definitely provides some weapons that the Mavs need. 

Luka said this game "wasn't us," they played terribly, and he thinks they should forget about it and move on.

One has to give the Suns their due. They were on fire, with Booker and Ayton combining for 63 points. Dallas had no answer for Ayton, who lit our guys up in the paint. Ced thought that Ayton might be extra motivated because Luka was voted an All-Star starter and he wasn't. A little extra incentive to try to prove his front office right in drafting him instead of Luka, lol. I wouldn't doubt it.  

Anyway, I don't think there is much to be gained by parsing this match in detail. It was actually interesting before it got totally out of control, in a train-wreck sort of way. I know it was the second night of a back-to-back, and the first home game after a road trip, and guys were down about Kobe, but I can't think of any excuses that really justify this level of bad basketball. Whatever was wrong, I hope they have it out of their system, and are able to get their groove back soon. 


Next.  The Mavs face the Rockets on Friday night in Houston. Get back up on that horse and gallop, Mavs! 

[omahen]

Nothing more to say here. Horrible performance. Learn something from it, move on and beat the crap out of Houston to redeem themselves. Season is not over yet!

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/BenZajdel/status/122...3442812934

[Reunion Mav Old]

I didn't watch this game as I saw online how bad it was going. But, this really points out two concerns that we have hit on many times and should not be thrown out with this game. Two guys, Ayton and Booker are going to be long term problems in precisely the areas we are trying to shore up!

Booker is really good and hurts teams quite often but he seems to light it up every time against us because of lack of one on one defenders on the wings. That remains a big problem, especially in the fourth quarter (a third problem we are improving but still have).

Ayton is another of a growing group of guys who can bully ball us. Any strong big with skills can and often does hurt us bad. Maybe Cauley-Stein can help. Maybe the trade deadline will bring help. Maybe this game is used in film sessions by our individual current guys to learn how they can slow them down better.

Get ready for Houston!

[ItsGoTime]

The sky is for sure not falling, cause we're still, record-wise, in a better situation than I ever thought was going to be the case coming into the season. I thought at this point we might be about a .500 team (maybe just under) that was starting to really click and find our groove (kinda like the Thunder are pretty much). I will say, we started off with a pretty big bang, and are petering out so far comparably. That has my mind wondering what the reasons for this might be.

1. We've seen Luka go from absolute stud, noone can touch him, to pretty dang good already once in his rookie season. Is this happening again? I certainly hope not, but the question IMO has to be raised at this point because as Luka goes, so do the Mavs. Which brings me to the next question.
   
2. The quality of players around Luka (and KP, but mostly Luka). It's been discussed ad nauseam this season about the quality of player we have outside of Luka and KP. I think if there is a #1 reason Luka is breaking down in his second season, it's because of the supporting cast. While I think they're giving everything they most likely can, it just isn't good enough. THJ has been a revelation this season, but he's only scoring 14 ppg (throughout the season, which matters when talking about why Luka might be breaking down). DFS has been great, but he's not doing what we see others probably can. Curry has been ok, but even by his standards, I think he's not shown up as much. I could keep going, but I think you get the gist of this point.
   
3. RC. This is the first time I've wondered about him as a coach. Not that I'm saying get rid of him, in any way, far from that, I just wonder if those last few years of tanking without "tanking" has changed him a bit (other than his love of small ball)? I can't put my finger on it, but it just doesn't seem like we're getting the best out of our high end, long tenured, coach.
   

I don't think these possible problems take care of themselves by standing pat this TDL and going forward. I've heard people saying that standing pat is taking the long term approach and putting faith in the players already on the team. I think it does put that faith in them, but to what end? 

How much less of a long term approach is blowing up this team and getting the maximum value out of the players to retool with starting quality players in starting spots and finding bench players that fit in around them? What has THJ and Kleber done so well that they are untouchable to some (Unless they net a star? A star? Really? Is that the bar? Are they stars themselves?)? Why would we not move on from Curry? How is DW's contribution so high that it can't be exceeded? Same for JB and JJ. DFS has been better than ever, but is that so good that it is enough?

Do we need to fully blow the team up to get better results? Maybe maybe not, I just don't think there is so much upside to the team we currently have constructed, and no, I don't think it is possible that this team is a group of title contenders, no matter how long we give them. I can't budge from that thought, but I can allow for others to believe it, just will never understand them.

In closing, no, this team isn't horrible, and if we set our standards to being the Rockets, great in the regular season, unfulfilling playoff runs no one will be upset.

[burekemde]

I didn't watch this game as I saw online how bad it was going. But, this really points out two concerns that we have hit on many times and should not be thrown out with this game. Two guys, Ayton and Booker are going to be long term problems in precisely the areas we are trying to shore up!

Booker is really good and hurts teams quite often but he seems to light it up every time against us because of lack of one on one defenders on the wings. That remains a big problem, especially in the fourth quarter (a third problem we are improving but still have).

Ayton is another of a growing group of guys who can bully ball us. Any strong big with skills can and often does hurt us bad. Maybe Cauley-Stein can help. Maybe the trade deadline will bring help. Maybe this game is used in film sessions by our individual current guys to learn how they can slow them down better.

Get ready for Houston!

Mavs really have one great starter on the roster: Doncic.

Rest are either bench players, or really great bench players that are playing as starters. THJ and Curry and DFS and Powell, and even Kleber would never start for contending teams. Either they would be on the bench or play as starters on bad teams.

Finally there is KP who can be a great starter, but is not playing like that as he is (hopefully) still transitioning back.

That we are sitting 6th in the West, considering the above, is really amazing what was done so far. It was due to a lot of Luka magic, but also RC scheme to get the most on offense despite lack of overall skill, such as nobody that can post besides Luka etc.

We also have a nice depth of bench players and this has been a positive and also added to the record.

It is hard to deny that Mavs need to add quality starters in addition to Doncic and KP, if contending is a goal. Before that happens, we will once in a while see games like these. Mavs have regularly beating team like Suns but also regularly lost to great teams such as Clippers, Lakers, Heat, Utah etc. The starting level talent is just lower and it will be hard to win the championship with this roster. I expect some Luka Magic and run deep into playoffs, but once we meet Clippers, Lakers, its game over likely.

[SportPsychMav]

Worst thing with Powell going down is that Rick has an excuse for smallest ball again.

[ItsGoTime]

Worst thing with Powell going down is that Rick has an excuse for smallest ball again.

Ya, his talk about WCS has me pretty worried about that. If he's going to be an upgraded Boban, we're in for a lot more of what we saw last night, IMO.

[Kammrath]

Worst thing with Powell going down is that Rick has an excuse for smallest ball again.

Yep, it is almost like as a GM, Donnie needs to make a trade just to limit the number of competent guards RC has access to.

[ItsGoTime]

Finally there is KP who can be a great starter, but is not playing like that as he is (hopefully) still transitioning back.

I'm beginning to wonder. I'd really hate for this to be who he will be for our team and then have that contract. I'm still not in the trade KP camp, but I would for sure listen to offers that are sure-fire upgrades to our team now and in the future.

I think he's a great defender, but he is not on Gobert's level in that respect (with some bulk and more focus I think he could be). He looks like he will probably be a great scorer, and has the tools to be a great distributor as well, but will he reach that level? He is frail and can't take any bumps when handling the ball or on defense. All the potential in the world to live up to the unicorn nickname, but will that come to fruition?

[Scott41theMavs]

Finally there is KP who can be a great starter, but is not playing like that as he is (hopefully) still transitioning back.

I'm beginning to wonder. I'd really hate for this to be who he will be for our team and then have that contract. I'm still not in the trade KP camp, but I would for sure listen to offers that are sure-fire upgrades to our team now and in the future.

I think he's a great defender, but he is not on Gobert's level in that respect (with some bulk and more focus I think he could be). He looks like he will probably be a great scorer, and has the tools to be a great distributor as well, but will he reach that level? He is frail and can't take any bumps when handling the ball or on defense. All the potential in the world to live up to the unicorn nickname, but will that come to fruition?

I looked at his career stats when I had to defend him from trolling in the game thread. His shooting numbers are not far off what he did in NY. Matter of fact, his 3p% is a lot lower than his last season, but not so much the 2p%. He is what he is, but what he is is still pretty good. I think he could be used better and get more comfortable in the PnR with Luka, and be somewhat less tentative on defense. People forget that we gave a similar (though not as long) contract to Barnes. I'll take KP. I don't think trading him this year or next summer is a serious consideration in any event, but if he is what he is, you aren't going to get value in any event. You have beaten the Towns drum. I want zero part of Towns on a Luka-led team. You don't build around two guys who are terrible at defense if you want to win in the playoffs. Turner plus something else of value is much more sensible. We'll see what happens.

---

Worst thing with Powell going down is that Rick has an excuse for smallest ball again.

Yep, it is almost like as a GM, Donnie needs to make a trade just to limit the number of competent guards RC has access to.

Yes. I'm afraid that if we do trade away Wright or Brunson, Rick will just give the departed guard's minutes to JJB.

[ItsGoTime]

I looked at his career stats when I had to defend him from trolling in the game thread. His shooting numbers are not far off what he did in NY. Matter of fact, his 3p% is a lot lower than his last season, but not so much the 2p%. He is what he is, but what he is is still pretty good. I think he could be used better and get more comfortable in the PnR with Luka, and be somewhat less tentative on defense. People forget that we gave a similar (though not as long) contract to Barnes. I'll take KP. I don't think trading him this year or next summer is a serious consideration in any event, but if he is what he is, you aren't going to get value in any event. You have beaten the Towns drum. I want zero part of Towns on a Luka-led team. You don't build around two guys who are terrible at defense if you want to win in the playoffs. Turner plus something else of value is much more sensible. We'll see what happens.

Right, but those are , 20-22 yo's numbers. He is now 24, still has a year or two to show he'll improve those numbers (esp after a year and 1/2 off) before anything can start to be written in stone about him IMO. I agree that I don't think the FO will look to trade him, that can be a subject for debate as to whether or not that is a good decision though IMO.

I'm mostly off the Towns drum, I wouldn't mind a 3 team trade to extract value to help make that happen for another team though. I think Turner plus, plus, plus is currently the direction I myself really like the thought of. Getting a player 1 year younger than KP, more durable and plays bigger than he is is a step in the right direction, esp if we want to get into the realm of PG-Small Distributing Wing-Wing-Big Wing-C type of team building. I don't think KP currently (and maybe never) is the C for that type of lineup unless the Big Wing was a monster that can take on Jokic/Davis/KAT/Ayton etc...

Yes. I'm afraid that if we do trade away Wright or Brunson, Rick will just give the departed guard's minutes to JJB.

Truth.

[mavsluvr]

Do we need to fully blow the team up to get better results? Maybe maybe not, I just don't think there is so much upside to the team we currently have constructed, and no, I don't think it is possible that this team is a group of title contenders, no matter how long we give them. I can't budge from that thought, but I can allow for others to believe it, just will never understand them.

An interesting question to ponder.


It is possible that the Mavs are trying to follow a Spurs-style roster-construction formula, using one superstar, a couple of very good players, and a system in which the other players come in and out and learn to play defined roles very well. I don't think they are, but it's too early to rule it out altogether. 

I don't think the Mavs view anyone on the roster outside of Luka and KP (for now) as untouchable. I think they're pretty realistic about what they have and don't have. I do imagine that it is likely that they will "blow up" this team over time, as they find opportunities to upgrade. In three seasons, the roster probably looks quite different. Some different players, and maybe a handful of current supporting players who have earned their spots by getting substantially better. 

The front office is not under the impression that this group as a finished product, and they will use the normal avenues to improve. That said, I don't think they are about to shop a dozen players before the deadline and hold a fire sale. Nor do I think they should. They're not in a desperate situation. 

Agree that the team as it exists today is not a likely contender, and that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment if we hold the squad to that level of expectation this season. I actually think that's okay at this point in their cycle. They're a fun, overachieving young team already (last night excepted). Rome wasn't built in a day. But it became a great city. 

That is not to say I agree with every decision management makes. Like you, I also recognize that some fans have different views than mine on the subject, and I am not on a mission to convert them or anything. 

[mavsluvr]

https://twitter.com/BenZajdel/status/122...3442812934

A good point. 

I also saw that KP and Luka were both on some kind of downgraded status before the game, with KP's knee and Luka's ankle listed.

I may be grasping for straws here, but maybe this game was just some kind of perfect storm, where too many things went wrong at the same time, and the guys couldn't work themselves out of their tailspin.

[mavsluvr]

Nothing more to say here. Horrible performance. Learn something from it, move on and beat the crap out of Houston to redeem themselves. Season is not over yet!

Not by a long shot!

I did listen to Followill's podcast, though, and based on Rick's response, he didn't think it likely that Coach was going to let them off the hook with the Kobe excuse. He tends to be protective of the team with the media, and this time he wasn't. Mark said that Rick's philosophy is that if you're trying to play this game at the highest level, you can't ever permit yourself to tolerate mediocrity.

Further, he added that Mavs aren't sneaking up on the league any more. Teams are ready for them. That means no taking games off when times get tough.

[ThisIStheYear]

Luka has seemed just slightly off since the ankle injury, but still really good.  KP has been a disappointment this season for the most part.  I’m not sure he’s movable with that contract even if the Mavs wanted to.  I sure wouldn’t tie up a big long term contract slot with the KP we are seeing.  He’s been maybe slightly better than replacement level, if even that.  The team’s depth has shown out as a strength, but would still like a true second best type player for the roster. The Suns are an emerging team with two bona fide all star caliber players emerging, compared to one for the Mavs.  They are a long term threat to Luka and company.

[mavsluvr]

Luka has seemed just slightly off since the ankle injury, but still really good.  KP has been a disappointment this season for the most part.  I’m not sure he’s movable with that contract even if the Mavs wanted to.  I sure wouldn’t tie up a big long term contract slot with the KP we are seeing.  He’s been maybe slightly better than replacement level, if even that.  The team’s depth has shown out as a strength, but would still like a true second best type player for the roster. The Suns are an emerging team with two bona fide all star caliber players emerging, compared to one for the Mavs.  They are a long term threat to Luka and company.

The All-Star reserves have been leaked. The Suns have no All-Stars, Mavs have one.

[mavsluvr]

I didn't watch this game as I saw online how bad it was going. But, this really points out two concerns that we have hit on many times and should not be thrown out with this game. Two guys, Ayton and Booker are going to be long term problems in precisely the areas we are trying to shore up!

Booker is really good and hurts teams quite often but he seems to light it up every time against us because of lack of one on one defenders on the wings. That remains a big problem, especially in the fourth quarter (a third problem we are improving but still have).

Ayton is another of a growing group of guys who can bully ball us. Any strong big with skills can and often does hurt us bad. Maybe Cauley-Stein can help. Maybe the trade deadline will bring help. Maybe this game is used in film sessions by our individual current guys to learn how they can slow them down better.

Get ready for Houston!

Agree that Ayton and Booker are very good, and that individual defense is not the Mavs' forte. Also think the Mavs should have been able to hang with them on a normal night. Hopefully, they'll bounce back against Houston, even without Luka.

[Fuerza1]

The All-Star reserves have been leaked. The Suns have no All-Stars, Mavs have one.

To be fair, he did say all-star CALIBER.

[ItsGoTime]

The All-Star reserves have been leaked. The Suns have no All-Stars, Mavs have one.

To be fair, he did say all-star CALIBER.

To counter the fairness, KP is bona-fide all star caliber too, which the original thought left out. He was a bona-fide actual all star, so the case can be made that he could get back to that level of play.