KOBE BRYANT DEAD AT 41: NBA legend, 13 yr-old daughter Gianna among 9 confirmed dead

[SleepingHero]

I guess Mark Cuban wanting to honor Kobe makes sense considering the Dallas Mavericks organization's reputation for the way they treat women.  I guess that whole rape thing bothers me more than most.

I don't even understand what you're implying? That Cuban himself was apart of rape? First off, there was no rape. There was a pattern of on-going sexual harassment and abuse by the people in power in the business operations side of the Mavs. Big difference than rape. Not saying one is more serious than the other, but there is a significant difference between rape and sexual harassment. Secondly, 2 separate investigations were conducted that investigated Cuban's involvement and the Mavs themselves. One by a 3rd party law firm and another by the NBA themselves. They both walked away saying that Cuban was not at fault whatsoever as he had no possible way of knowing. The 2 people that report directly to Cuban were the ones covering it up. None of the victims went to Cuban, by their own admission. As to why? We'll never know and it is never right to blame the victims for not seeking out Cuban nor is it right to blame Cuban for not telepathically knowing that some of his employees were being harassed.

I don't understand vilifying a guy who never committed the crime. Furthermore, this was at the height of the #metoo movement. Had Cuban done anything that was even remotely dirty, you can bet that the NBA would have come down with the harshest of punishments. But all they got was a slap on the wrist because all the people involved were fired 4 years before the story ever came out, and those who weren't were quickly dealt with as more details came out.

Thirdly, the basketball side of the organization, the area that Cuban was most involved with, was lauded for their treatment of women. The women involved even stated that the basketball locker room was a safe haven, and every single person within the basketball side of things treated them amazing. Your thought process is yet another example of why today there is so much hate. Guilty until proven innocent, and even after proven innocent, Cubes is still guilty because of the sheer mention of his name in the story. 

Finally, I think its honestly disgusting that you bring up such a classless and thoughtless point at such a vulnerable time after the tragic death of Kobe. I'm not even going to go into the details of his rape case (hint: the victim herself refused to testify under oath, throwing all criminal charges out the window, and she quickly filed a civil case with the hopes of it being settled). But while Kobe committed an immoral act of cheating on his wife, one mistake doesn't define a person. And as we can see from the immeasurable amount of people affected by his death, Kobe's body of work speaks for itself. That is what defines Kobe. That is what Cuban is honoring. And given the countless battles against the Lakers over the years, and the connection between Kobe and Dirk, it's a no brainer as to why Kobe deserves such an honor from the Mavs even though he never donned a Mavs jersey.

Kobe touched millions of people for the better and dared them to be a better version of themselves. Unfortunately that lesson didn't get through to you yet. Be better.

#MambaOut.

[ClutchDirk]

I guess Mark Cuban wanting to honor Kobe makes sense considering the Dallas Mavericks organization's reputation for the way they treat women.  I guess that whole rape thing bothers me more than most.

I don't even understand what you're implying? That Cuban himself was apart of rape? First off, there was no rape. There was a pattern of on-going sexual harassment and abuse by the people in power in the business operations side of the Mavs. Big difference than rape. Not saying one is more serious than the other, but there is a significant difference between rape and sexual harassment. Secondly, 2 separate investigations were conducted that investigated Cuban's involvement and the Mavs themselves. One by a 3rd party law firm and another by the NBA themselves. They both walked away saying that Cuban was not at fault whatsoever as he had no possible way of knowing. The 2 people that report directly to Cuban were the ones covering it up. None of the victims went to Cuban, by their own admission. As to why? We'll never know and it is never right to blame the victims for not seeking out Cuban nor is it right to blame Cuban for not telepathically knowing that some of his employees were being harassed.

I don't understand vilifying a guy who never committed the crime. Furthermore, this was at the height of the #metoo movement. Had Cuban done anything that was even remotely dirty, you can bet that the NBA would have come down with the harshest of punishments. But all they got was a slap on the wrist because all the people involved were fired 4 years before the story ever came out, and those who weren't were quickly dealt with as more details came out.

Thirdly, the basketball side of the organization, the area that Cuban was most involved with, was lauded for their treatment of women. The women involved even stated that the basketball locker room was a safe haven, and every single person within the basketball side of things treated them amazing. Your thought process is yet another example of why today there is so much hate. Guilty until proven innocent, and even after proven innocent, Cubes is still guilty because of the sheer mention of his name in the story. 

Finally, I think its honestly disgusting that you bring up such a classless and thoughtless point at such a vulnerable time after the tragic death of Kobe. I'm not even going to go into the details of his rape case (hint: the victim herself refused to testify under oath, throwing all criminal charges out the window, and she quickly filed a civil case with the hopes of it being settled). But while Kobe committed an immoral act of cheating on his wife, one mistake doesn't define a person. And as we can see from the immeasurable amount of people affected by his death, Kobe's body of work speaks for itself. That is what defines Kobe. That is what Cuban is honoring. And given the countless battles against the Lakers over the years, and the connection between Kobe and Dirk, it's a no brainer as to why Kobe deserves such an honor from the Mavs even though he never donned a Mavs jersey.

Kobe touched millions of people for the better and dared them to be a better version of themselves. Unfortunately that lesson didn't get through to you yet. Be better.

#MambaOut.

https://media.giphy.com/media/J5jmQF8IwNS6Y/giphy.gif

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https://twitter.com/JeffVaughn/status/12...6713694208

[hakeemfan]

Petition to change the NBA Logo

https://www.change.org/p/nba-petition-to-make-kobe-bryant-the-new-nba-logo?recruiter=1036768137&recruited_by_id=130213c0-4086-11ea-baef-01552a1e2b31

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/27/sport/kob...index.html

Been seeing these since yesterday and I'm not a fan.  There is no need to uphold Kobe's legend further especially at the cost of phasing out Jerry West's.  Would also hate to find arguments later that goes: "Why Kobe over Jordan?  Because he died first?"

Never understood why Jerry West was a set figure of the logo anyway.   If I were a player I would be questioning that more than why an owner should be called an owner. 
 
Why not rotate the logo on the NBA website every month? KAJ skyhook, MJ flying for a dunk, Dirk one legged fade-away are all iconic poses.  

How many of us care about that logo of West anyway? Use it more like google creatively uses their doodles to celebrate something.  Fans would be interested too.

[SportPsychMav]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srEr0ah2rfA

[LukTheShadow]

https://twitter.com/naima/status/1221593...59168?s=20

[cow]

[radioaktiv]

Petition to change the NBA Logo

https://www.change.org/p/nba-petition-to-make-kobe-bryant-the-new-nba-logo?recruiter=1036768137&recruited_by_id=130213c0-4086-11ea-baef-01552a1e2b31

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/27/sport/kob...index.html

Been seeing these since yesterday and I'm not a fan.  There is no need to uphold Kobe's legend further especially at the cost of phasing out Jerry West's.  Would also hate to find arguments later that goes: "Why Kobe over Jordan?  Because he died first?"

Never understood why Jerry West was a set figure of the logo anyway.   If I were a player I would be questioning that more than why an owner should be called an owner. 
 
Why not rotate the logo on the NBA website every month? KAJ skyhook, MJ flying for a dunk, Dirk one legged fade-away are all iconic poses.  

How many of us care about that logo of West anyway? Use it more like google creatively uses their doodles to celebrate something.  Fans would be interested too.

Read up on a recent article that the NBA never confirmed it was West, but the designer of the logo said he made it referencing a West photo.  West himself wasn't comfortable with it and never cashed in.  So upon learning that, it even makes sense to me now why the logo should stay as it is - it's a logo Jerry West would prefer that is every player instead (anti-Kobe in a way).

[Kammrath]

MUST READ ARTICLE:

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/285...ife-all-it

This is SOOOO good. Nails this subject perfectly.

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/statu...6296380416

[vfromlmf]

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-idea-of-cha...41802.html

[Kammrath]

MUST READ ARTICLE:

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/285...ife-all-it

This is SOOOO good. Nails this subject perfectly.

Some quotes:


"I wondered what the woman who alleged that Bryant raped her in 2003 might think upon hearing that word, "hero." What horrible pain might resurface for her and other survivors with the news of his death. What she must feel hearing people gush over the many accomplishments of this man's life and skipping over the one night that came to define hers."

"It's hard to speak plainly and fully about someone in the wake of a tragedy. I imagine part of that also is projection: We glimpse our own mortality and that of the ones we love and hope that when the time comes, people will avoid the messy stuff. A clean ending, one that glosses over the uncomfortable truths of life, might seem more respectful to the person who died, but it can wreak havoc on those left behind."

"We do too much mythologizing in sport. Athletes are invincible, games are war, wins are moral currency, and the greatest among us are gods who will never be forgotten."
"After 14 months of enduring public scrutiny, including death threats left on her home answering machine, she was "physically ill" as the trial approached and decided she no longer wanted to testify. Criminal charges were dropped, and a civil case was settled with a nondisclosure agreement that has prevented the woman from speaking about the incident. It's impossible to know how many people watched as this very high-profile case unfolded, saw the way this woman was treated and decided not to speak out about their own sexual assaults."

"Neither time nor death can earn you salvation. What can? The hard, messy work of reconciling your actions and how they've affected others. The uncomfortable task of seeking forgiveness and proving you've earned it. We might never know if Bryant got the chance to do that. He's gone far too soon, at 41 years old. And so we're left to grapple with the complicated legacy he leaves behind. To argue with one another about the fairness of an honest retrospective. To decide for ourselves whether to remember the man he was or just the man we wanted him to be."

[hakeemfan]

MUST READ ARTICLE:

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/285...ife-all-it

This is SOOOO good. Nails this subject perfectly.

Some quotes:


"I wondered what the woman who alleged that Bryant raped her in 2003 might think upon hearing that word, "hero." What horrible pain might resurface for her and other survivors with the news of his death. What she must feel hearing people gush over the many accomplishments of this man's life and skipping over the one night that came to define hers."

"It's hard to speak plainly and fully about someone in the wake of a tragedy. I imagine part of that also is projection: We glimpse our own mortality and that of the ones we love and hope that when the time comes, people will avoid the messy stuff. A clean ending, one that glosses over the uncomfortable truths of life, might seem more respectful to the person who died, but it can wreak havoc on those left behind."

"We do too much mythologizing in sport. Athletes are invincible, games are war, wins are moral currency, and the greatest among us are gods who will never be forgotten."
"After 14 months of enduring public scrutiny, including death threats left on her home answering machine, she was "physically ill" as the trial approached and decided she no longer wanted to testify. Criminal charges were dropped, and a civil case was settled with a nondisclosure agreement that has prevented the woman from speaking about the incident. It's impossible to know how many people watched as this very high-profile case unfolded, saw the way this woman was treated and decided not to speak out about their own sexual assaults."

"Neither time nor death can earn you salvation. What can? The hard, messy work of reconciling your actions and how they've affected others. The uncomfortable task of seeking forgiveness and proving you've earned it. We might never know if Bryant got the chance to do that. He's gone far too soon, at 41 years old. And so we're left to grapple with the complicated legacy he leaves behind. To argue with one another about the fairness of an honest retrospective. To decide for ourselves whether to remember the man he was or just the man we wanted him to be."

I can go into details on counters to but it didn’t come across as an even handed article. The alleged victim changed portions of her original testimony.  She did miserably in mock trials conducted by the prosecution. So much so that they did not feel good about the case either. Why does the author not talk about those things?  Kobe might be totally guilty. However, it is not as if false accusations of rape are something we have never witnessed in our lives either.

[ClutchDirk]

http://bleacherreport.com/post/los-angel...f72caf3b0a

[Benskix2]

I don't think Kobe would have issued his public apology after the settlement if he felt like he had done nothing wrong.  You have to think he had some fear of being convicted to settle at all, because at that point the damage was done publicly so he wasn't paying her off to keep it out of the news. 

But if anyone was still concerned about Kobe getting away with rape they should have been writing that story every week for the last 15 years, publishing that now seems like a cowards move.

[mavsluvr]

I don't think Kobe would have issued his public apology after the settlement if he felt like he had done nothing wrong.  You have to think he had some fear of being convicted to settle at all, because at that point the damage was done publicly so he wasn't paying her off to keep it out of the news. 

But if anyone was still concerned about Kobe getting away with rape they should have been writing that story every week for the last 15 years, publishing that now seems like a cowards move.

99% chance that issuing that apology was a condition of the settlement. The "victim" issued a comparable statement, and both were apparently written by attorneys. Agree that he must have seen some risk to himself in the matter to have settled. 

I get your point, but think I look at that situation a little differently. I don't view it as cowardly to bring it up now, when the nation is engaged in reviewing his life and trying to make sense of it all. Kobe was a heck of a person, but he was no choirboy. I think you can genuinely admire a person and also acknowledge the mistakes they may have made.

[Benskix2]

I agree on the first part, I wasn't suggesting Kobe issued the statement because he felt bad, I was trying to say that he issued the statement because he was fearful of being convicted and wanted to settle.

[hakeemfan]

I don't think Kobe would have issued his public apology after the settlement if he felt like he had done nothing wrong.  You have to think he had some fear of being convicted to settle at all, because at that point the damage was done publicly so he wasn't paying her off to keep it out of the news. 

But if anyone was still concerned about Kobe getting away with rape they should have been writing that story every week for the last 15 years, publishing that now seems like a cowards move.

The apology part was also discussed extensively in those days. 

The girl after her poor mock trials refused to press charges. But she could have always done so in the future. The settlement part of her not pressing charges was him giving that statement.

From what I remember he did not want to do it but his attorneys finally convinced him to. If she went ahead at some point and filed charges regardless of how strong you think your position is, you are putting your life in the hands of a jury. Plus the threat of a trial at some point would always hang  on his head. It is easy to say that if you did not do anything you should fight it out. Legal system is not always fair in a he said / she said case.

[mavsluvr]

I agree on the first part, I wasn't suggesting Kobe issued the statement because he felt bad, I was trying to say that he issued the statement because he was fearful of being convicted and wanted to settle.

It appears that we are on the same page on that issue, then. 

[SleepingHero]

MUST READ ARTICLE:

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/285...ife-all-it

This is SOOOO good. Nails this subject perfectly.

Some quotes:


"I wondered what the woman who alleged that Bryant raped her in 2003 might think upon hearing that word, "hero." What horrible pain might resurface for her and other survivors with the news of his death. What she must feel hearing people gush over the many accomplishments of this man's life and skipping over the one night that came to define hers."

"It's hard to speak plainly and fully about someone in the wake of a tragedy. I imagine part of that also is projection: We glimpse our own mortality and that of the ones we love and hope that when the time comes, people will avoid the messy stuff. A clean ending, one that glosses over the uncomfortable truths of life, might seem more respectful to the person who died, but it can wreak havoc on those left behind."

"We do too much mythologizing in sport. Athletes are invincible, games are war, wins are moral currency, and the greatest among us are gods who will never be forgotten."
"After 14 months of enduring public scrutiny, including death threats left on her home answering machine, she was "physically ill" as the trial approached and decided she no longer wanted to testify. Criminal charges were dropped, and a civil case was settled with a nondisclosure agreement that has prevented the woman from speaking about the incident. It's impossible to know how many people watched as this very high-profile case unfolded, saw the way this woman was treated and decided not to speak out about their own sexual assaults."

"Neither time nor death can earn you salvation. What can? The hard, messy work of reconciling your actions and how they've affected others. The uncomfortable task of seeking forgiveness and proving you've earned it. We might never know if Bryant got the chance to do that. He's gone far too soon, at 41 years old. And so we're left to grapple with the complicated legacy he leaves behind. To argue with one another about the fairness of an honest retrospective. To decide for ourselves whether to remember the man he was or just the man we wanted him to be."

I can go into details on counters to but it didn’t come across as an even handed article. The alleged victim changed portions of her original testimony.  She did miserably in mock trials conducted by the prosecution. So much so that they did not feel good about the case either. Why does the author not talk about those things?  Kobe might be totally guilty. However, it is not as if false accusations of rape are something we have never witnessed in our lives either.

The article also fails to mention that when the victim went to the hospital to have the rape kit conducted, they found semen from a different man in her underwear. When questioned, she said she forgot thathappened and she mistakenly put on a dirty pair before she left the house. It also skewed the rape kit results, as that semen was found in the test. 

It wasn't an even handed article. BUT I do think the overall point that she was trying to get at was reconciling your failures is the true path to salvation. What we do know for sure is that Kobe cheated on his wife. Adultery is a deadly sin. Since his sin, Kobe worked to make his marriage work and by all accounts became an incredible father/husband and raised his children in a loving home. So at the very least, I think Kobe achieved at least some sense of salvation from that incident.

---

You have to think he had some fear of being convicted to settle at all, because at that point the damage was done publicly so he wasn't paying her off to keep it out of the news. 

Civil court has a different standard for convicting. It's based on the preponderance of evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt. 

Criminally, the case was shaky to begin with and was quickly thrown out after the victim refused to testify. She filed a civil suit, and based on the preponderance of evidence she had a good chance of winning. She just needed to convince the judge that it probably happened, not with overwhelming evidence like in criminal court. So Kobe's legal team smartly decided to settle privately instead of letting headlines say "Kobe Loses Rape Case". And like others said, the apology was probably apart of the settlement.

And on a separate point, if, for some miraculous reason, new convincing evidence came out tomorrow that Kobe did indeed rape that girl, I will 100% condemn Kobe for what he did. But just based on what occurred all those years ago, I find it annoying that people bring it up now to try to smear Kobe's legacy.

[vg2011]

9 people, including several children and families are dead. 

None of them, except the children, were perfect people. No one commenting in this thread is a perfect person whose entire life would stand up to the kind of public scrutiny some one like Kobe went through.

Its too soon man. Save your "opinions" for a more appropriate time.