FA: Spencer Dinwiddie Heads to DAL | 1 yr/vet min

[DallasMaverick]

Coaches don't think this way, nor should they. 

Kidd is going to play the guy who gives his team the best chance of winning on any given night. The guy who has been in those circumstances, with the most experience, who won't be afraid to try to score, and who won't make mistakes. That guy will be Dinwiddie. 

There's a reason he kept trying to go to Hardaway in the playoffs - because the willingness to shoot, or to try to create offense in any way, is so, so, so much more important than we realize as fans. We chastise players for "bad shots" but in reality, that's what the coaches WANT. Guys who move the defense with confidence. (Now THAT is a separate discussion worth having). 

Dinwiddie is more confident and capable of taking "bad shots" than Hardaway could be on his most irrationally confident day. All Mavs fans know is that those shots went in during that one playoff stretch in '22. If I'm running this team, those minutes go to Hardy, period. I think this is a terrible mistake.

My impression has been that Hardy is too willing to "force" stuff.  Shots, drives, passes.  My eye test says that he has a lot of turnovers that way.

It was even worse during summer league last year.  I think the coaches were trying to figure out whether he could be a point guard or not.  So they put the ball in his hands as the distributor, and oodles of turnovers and bad decisions resulted.

During the regular season, they mostly played him as the SG.  He didn't have to bring the ball up the court under pressure, he wasn't expected to be a distributor.  And he did much better. 

He was, indeed, better at putting the ball on the floor than THJ, which is why Kidd elevated him off the bench during the playoffs.

Dinwiddie?  Equally bad at defense, except he's a little bigger and stronger than Hardy. Offensively, more adept at penetration without turnovers, probably better judgment with the ball.  Not as prone to hunt bad shots, maybe?

31 years old, so right in his prime.

Yes, I think he'll steal minutes from Hardy.

I think it was a good move.

[KillerLeft]

If Mavs plan to have two of Luka/Kyrie/Klay on court all the time, there is little space for guys like Hardy or SD. They need defenders next to them to keep the defense decent enough, unless they think Klay is still a very good defender. I think most of opportunities for Hardy and SD will come in case of injuries and I think both would probably be out of playoff rotation if everyone is healthy.

I don't think this is a thing, at least not how you're suggesting, offensively. In other words, I don't think we should look at Kyrie/Luka/Thomspon as some three-headed rotation being the goal, though I do think it will work like that as a default, and I DO think there's reason to be concerned about the defense as a result of that default (which is your point). 

There are others who are still locked in on this thought that they need to have TWO BALL-HANDLERS on the floor at all times, like they did in '22. I think that's nut bar factor 7, because of the defensive concerns you're bringing up, and because they've added a lot of complementary offensive players since then who CAN attack closeouts and even do more than that WITH THE BALL. Guys like Thompson, Marshall, Washington and Grimes.

IF the Mavs see this the way YOU do, then Exum and Grimes will both be in the rotation and Hardy/Dinwiddie won't. That's not the end of the world, except I'd be even MORE fine with Hardy being the guy in THAT role and understand this move even LESS. 

IF the other "two-ball-handlers at a time" guys are right, then what you can expect is that two of Luka/Kyrie/Dinwiddie/Exum/Hardy will be on the floor at all times, and Exum will very quickly fall out of consideration (from that mission, at least) because he won't try to score. 

This whole summer has been about offense. All of it, even Grimes and Marshall. They're good defenders, sure, but they're here because they're better offensive players than Green or DJJ. 

I'm predicting now, Dinwiddie is going to be one of the top 8 (if healthy) when the playoffs get here, and Hardy won't be. I hope I'm wrong, because Hardy being a legit 6-8th man was a big portion of my optimism going into the year.

[omahen]

IF the Mavs see this the way YOU do, then Exum and Grimes will both be in the rotation and Hardy/Dinwiddie won't. That's not the end of the world, except I'd be even MORE fine with Hardy being the guy in THAT role and understand this move even LESS. 

If Mavs see it that way, than Hardy has a very limited role because of his lack of defense. SD is much more capable of leading the team when one of Luka and Kyrie are out and I hope he was brought for that role. Last season Mavs were running Luka to the ground when Kyrie was injured because the offense fell apart when both were out. SD should correct that.

[omahen]

IF the other "two-ball-handlers at a time" guys are right, then what you can expect is that two of Luka/Kyrie/Dinwiddie/Exum/Hardy will be on the floor at all times, and Exum will very quickly fall out of consideration (from that mission, at least) because he won't try to score. 

This would more or less put Grimes in very limited minutes which would make me question why would they trade for him if they have such low belief in him. I don't find this option likely. I think Grimes will be number one option whenever one of Luka, Kyrie or Klay sit. Naji will take some SF minutes too, not just back-up PF ones (they paid him too much to just play 15 minutes behind PJ). Minutes for rest of the bunch (SD, Exum, Hardy) will be limited when everyone healthy.

[KillerLeft]

My impression has been that Hardy is too willing to "force" stuff.  Shots, drives, passes.  My eye test says that he has a lot of turnovers that way.

It was even worse during summer league last year.  I think the coaches were trying to figure out whether he could be a point guard or not.  So they put the ball in his hands as the distributor, and oodles of turnovers and bad decisions resulted.

During the regular season, they mostly played him as the SG.  He didn't have to bring the ball up the court under pressure, he wasn't expected to be a distributor.  And he did much better. 

He was, indeed, better at putting the ball on the floor than THJ, which is why Kidd elevated him off the bench during the playoffs.

Dinwiddie?  Equally bad at defense, except he's a little bigger and stronger than Hardy. Offensively, more adept at penetration without turnovers, probably better judgment with the ball.  Not as prone to hunt bad shots, maybe?

31 years old, so right in his prime.

Yes, I think he'll steal minutes from Hardy.

I think it was a good move.

I don't think you're understanding my points, or at least not fully, which is probably the result of me not articulating them with adequate clarity. In particular, you've missed my point re THJ completely. It's ok, because I've got to leave the house now and have lost the life force to argue about this, anyway. Here's a couple of topsoil-level responses I'll leave you with: 

He'll VERY OBVIOUSLY steal minutes from Hardy - that's not even worth discussing, and you absolutely have the right of it. 

I agree with your first paragraph about Hardy's mistakes. Those are obvious, too, but he was showing significant improvement, and really, we're just talking about him learning not to drive all the way into the paint when 2-3 defenders are waiting there. I have all the confidence in the world he can figure that out with playing time, but sadly, that time will now probably not come this season. His mid-range creation game is not only not RAW, but it's ADVANCED for his age - much better than Dinwiddie's, imho. But, Dinwiddie didn't come here NOT to play, so it's easy to see where this is going. 

The emboldened is a false equivalency. Dinwiddie has been BAD since leaving here. Maybe he does better this season, but I don't think it has much to do with his age, as in you can't just say "he's only 31." I worry that the '22 playoff run was for Dinwiddie what the 2011 playoff run was for DeShawn Stevenson. Not sure about that, but it's a worry, and I KNOW that Hardy's best days are ahead of him. 

Long story short: this signing is a solution to a problem that I don't believe existed.

[KillerLeft]

This would more or less put Grimes in very limited minutes which would make me question why would they trade for him if they have such low belief in him.

I'm with you, but we have some (FGump being a notable example) who don't believe Grimes is heavily in their plans at all, and in fact think he was just a way of moving Hardaway, nothing more. I think most of us were thrilled by the DOUBLE merits of cap maneuvering AND adding a helpful piece, but that thinking is not universal.

[dirkfansince1998]

According to the rumors he wasn't happy with his role on daddy's team. Can only hope that mommy isn't promising him rotation minutes.

[Chicagojk]

Anyone guess how the bench minutes work themselves out? A lot of options. I was thinking if Marshall can play a lot of minutes at PF that this opens things up a bit. He gets 22-24 minutes a night as a PF and maybe some SF. Grimes gets 20 or so minutes behind Klay at the 3. Then Dinwiddie, Exum and Hardy battle out the guard backup minutes. I think Dinwiddie would start getting those minutes early in the season.

Maxi plays some backup 5 and also matchup dependent, but his minutes may be limited at the beginning of season to no overwork him.

[KillerLeft]

According to the rumors he wasn't happy with his role on daddy's team. Can only hope that mommy isn't promising him rotation minutes.

Well, he chose LA over Dallas last time, with those same two teams asking this time. Promised playing time is right where my head went to explain the change, personally.

[omahen]

Anyone guess how the bench minutes work themselves out?  A lot of options.  I was thinking if Marshall can play a lot of minutes at PF that this opens things up a bit.  He gets 22-24 minutes a night as a PF and maybe some SF.  Grimes gets 20 or so minutes behind Klay at the 3.  Then Dinwiddie, Exum and Hardy battle out the guard backup minutes.  I think Dinwiddie would start getting those minutes early in the season.

Maxi plays some backup 5 and also matchup dependent, but his minutes may be limited at the beginning of season to no overwork him.

Not enough minutes for guards and at least one of Exum, Hardy and SD will be in deep bench role with everyone healthy in regular season. Maxi will play some, imho, probably at PF. I doubt they relegate him to a couple of minutes behind both Gafford and Lively. These two will imho take most of center minutes in the regular season, when everyone healthy

[Chicagojk]

In probably something no one cares about...but with Spencer signing there is no reason to keep a soon to be 25 year old guard on a two way spot. That spot should go to someone younger or someone at a different position. Don't expect it will happen though.

[Jmaciscool]

Well, he chose LA over Dallas last time, with those same two teams asking this time. Promised playing time is right where my head went to explain the change, personally.

Certainly a possibility.  I think another plausible possibility is that both teams were offering the same amount of playing time and he picked the one that was more of a contender with all other things being equal.

Who knows though - I think Spencer's a pretty unique personality and he may have a whole different set of criteria of determining who he signs with (for better or worse).

[F Gump]

There are others who are still locked in on this thought that they need to have TWO BALL-HANDLERS on the floor at all times, like they did in '22. I think that's nut bar factor 7, because ...

With all due respect, I think this take is way off base. Almost polar opposite to reality, frankly.

Rather them not feeling the need for multiple ball-handlers (aka offense creators) on the floor, I think their lineup will have AT LEAST two of Luka-Kyrie-Klay, and I think they will at times opt for THREE ball-handlers (aka offense creators) at a time, including in the starting lineup that includes all of those 3.

Your thought that they will look to complement their offense with some defense is right on target imo, but I'm looking for them to do that within the framework of the MULTIPLE ball-handlers (aka offense creators) model.

It's in that vein they added Dinwiddie imo, and Exum also fits that mold, as players who can make the offense continue to flow as a 2nd or even 3rd ball-handler (aka offense creator), particularly in cases of rest days, injuries, etc. I think we're sleeping on Exum's value, and I think they are actually doubling down on making sure they have plenty at all times with the addition of SD.

The ball needs to move.

[michaeltex]

Did I miss a step? Are we now at 14 or 15 on the roster? Did I miss a signing? I know Morris was talked about, did I miss him officially signing?

[Jym]

Did I miss a step? Are we now at 14 or 15 on the roster? Did I miss a signing? I know Morris was talked about, did I miss him officially signing?

Currently at 15 with no Morris so I'd have to guess Lawson is on his way out

[F Gump]

I'm with you, but we have some (FGump being a notable example) who don't believe Grimes is heavily in their plans at all, and in fact think he was just a way of moving Hardaway, nothing more. .

That's NOT what I said. I never said that DET said "You have to take Grimes, if we are going to do this deal" nor that the Mavs had any issue with taking him.

I think he's an unknown, not the given that many think he is.

My guess is that his role (such as it is) will evolve, based on how he plays. Like Lively last year, or DJJ, or Exum, or Holmes, or Wood the prior year, or others who came with checkered pasts.

I hope Grimes is much better in Dallas, but I think it's more realistic to think the jury is still out. I'm cautioning he may be quite meh, because that's who he was.

[mvossman]

The clearest way I can say this: This is ABSOLUTELY a threat to Hardy's role for this season, and in fact, is probably a sign that the Mavs have already determined they don't believe in him, at least not fully.

I have been hoping that Hardy could have a good, developmental year in a meaty role (15-25 minutes off the bench, consistently), with the worst case being that he's better than Dinwiddie is now by the end of the season, and the best case being that he's a dark horse 6moty candidate. Either this has the chance tp get in the way of that developmental season or the Mavs agree with the majority of this board and don't believe that season has much chance of happening. Either way, it's a bummer for me.

It would've been one thing if they had felt this way and gotten a Bogdanovic through trade, or taken a chance on someone like Fultz. Those are potentially future altering swings. Dinwiddie is almost done, if he's not done already. I'm so much less excited about him than I was two hours ago about Hardy.

I feel like the worst case scenario for Hardy with a meaty role all season is significantly worse than better than Dinwiddie.

I think its clear the FO does not fully believe in Hardy (or Exum) to run the offense.  Personally I have the same concerns (Exum is partially about health).  For a team with championship aspirations, this is the kind of move that needed to be done.

[Mavs2021]

Currently at 15 with no Morris so I'd have to guess Lawson is on his way out

I assume Lawson already knows, but they´ll keep him around until October, so he gets paid part of his salary, while he´s looking for a new team (overseas).

I´d have prefered DSJ, because of the defensive factor on the back-up unit, but as long as Hardy is finally playing off ball, I´ll be happy. I think he can average 13-14 PPG in that role (24 MPG). Question is will Dinwiddie play unselfish? Not exactly his speciality. So far Hardy has shown reasonable self restraint, when THJ ignored him to get his. But this is a contract year and Hardy is playing for life-altering money. In many ways it would be good, if Hardy reached an extension (48/4) that gives him financial security and elevated his roster relevance vs. Dinwiddie.

[mvossman]

I assume Lawson already knows, but they´ll keep him around until October, so he gets paid part of his salary, while he´s looking for a new team (overseas).

I´d have prefered DSJ, because of the defensive factor on the back-up unit, but as long as Hardy is finally playing off ball, I´ll be happy. I think he can average 13-14 PPG in that role (24 MPG). Question is will Dinwiddie play unselfish? Not exactly his speciality. So far Hardy has shown reasonable self restraint, when THJ ignored him to get his. But this is a contract year and Hardy is playing for life-altering money. In many ways it would be good, if Hardy reached an extension (48/4) that gives him financial security and elevated his roster relevance vs. Dinwiddie.

Its hard to see a world where hardy gets 24 MPG, even before this signing.  With Klay in the mix I expect the bench focus to be more defense oriented.  Naji and Grimes are likely getting the big minutes.  Hardy will have to compete with Exum and Din for the scraps.

[F Gump]

I assume Lawson already knows, but they´ll keep him around until October, so he gets paid part of his salary, while he´s looking for a new team (overseas). 

Pay begins when the season begins.

I think Lawson may end up on the back end of an NBA roster, but not in DAL. Or he may end up in GL.