FA: Spencer Dinwiddie Heads to DAL | 1 yr/vet min

[SleepingHero]

Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) 
Free agent guard Spencer Dinwiddie has agreed on a one-year deal with the Dallas Mavericks, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Dinwiddie reunites with Mavs as an ideal backcourt fit. He averaged 17.4 points in parts of two Dallas seasons and was key on 2022 West Finals team.

[SleepingHero]

Tim MacMahon (@espn_macmahon)
Source confirms that Spencer Dinwiddie has agreed to a one-year deal to return to Dallas. Dinwiddie, the sixth man on the Mavs’ conference finals team, provides proven guard depth behind the star duo of Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving.

[KillerLeft]

Oh, well. Most of the off-season was really good still.

[SleepingHero]

If anything, I think this may signal that Hardy is going to be the next piece to be traded.

Or heck, even Exum now.

I don't think anything is imminent but Dinwiddie is able to be a solid off ball scorer and facilitator. Defensively he's not great. But as a 15th man the Mavs got better.

[JamesConway912]

Exum is lucky to even still be on a NBA contract after his disastrous postseason. Not hard to see why they went after another PG. Dinwiddie might be done, I haven’t followed him im BRK/LAL but it’s for the minimum at a position of need. Solid move.

Hardy also had a bad year. They had to do address the need.

[KillerLeft]

If anything, I think this may signal that Hardy is going to be the next piece to be traded.

Or heck, even Exum now.

I don't think anything is imminent but Dinwiddie is able to be a solid off ball scorer and facilitator. Defensively he's not great. But as a 15th man the Mavs got better.

For sure. Exum I don't care about so much - he's a "2nd draft" type, or "fallen angel" as we used to say back in the db.com days. His chances at a big payday are almost nil, I'd say, so this being a contract year for him isn't a big deal. Either you like how he plays this year and are willing to give him some sort of small monetary reward to return, or you let someone else take their minimum flyer on him the way you just did. Heck, maybe you could even get him back here for the minimum again, who knows. 

But Hardy...he's not going to get a huge contract, but someone is going to offer him a legit 2nd contract of some sort, just based on his potential to create offense, the thing that never, ever goes out of style in the NBA. If you don't play him this season, it's going to be Josh Green all over again. Personally, I'd want to know what I had BEFORE he hits RFA. If you figure it out and don't want him, you could maybe move him at the deadline or use his RFA to your advantage, somehow, rather than give him a contract and then regret it, or worse - let an asset walk for nothing.

[SleepingHero]

Oh, well. Most of the off-season was really good still.

You don't think that offense was too hard to come by for the Mavs when 1 of Luka and Kyrie sat? 

Heck in games they both sat the Mavs were anemic offensively. 

Now? Klay can be an offensive hub unto himself. Dinwiddie has shown already he can succeed next to Luka and within this system. Hardy is better off-ball anyways and now the Mavs can run a psuedo Luka+Kyrie with Dinwddie+Hardy.

[KillerLeft]

You don't think that offense was too hard to come by for the Mavs when 1 of Luka and Kyrie sat? 

Heck in games they both sat the Mavs were anemic offensively. 

Now? Klay can be an offensive hub unto himself. Dinwiddie has shown already he can succeed next to Luka and within this system. Hardy is better off-ball anyways and now the Mavs can run a psuedo Luka+Kyrie with Dinwddie+Hardy.

I did think the offense suffered a bit, but I have some very different ideas on how to fix that than some. 

I think this move lowers the ceiling, relative to a world in which Hardy has a breakout season as first guard off the bench...by kind of a lot. That reality is an "if," I know, but one I'm pretty confident about, and now it's not going to happen. Dinwiddie having anything left in his tank is also an if, and one I'm not only less confident about, but also less interested in discovering the truth of. 

Maybe he won't play ahead of Exum or Hardy. But, I doubt it. He might end up playing in front of Grimes, even, the way this stuff works. Big personalities rule the day in these group dynamic situations.

[SleepingHero]

For sure. Exum I don't care about so much - he's a "2nd draft" type, or "fallen angel" as we used to say back in the db.com days. His chances at a big payday are almost nil, I'd say, so this being a contract year for him isn't a big deal. Either you like how he plays this year and are willing to give him some sort of small monetary reward to return, or you let someone else take their minimum flyer on him the way you just did. Heck, maybe you could even get him back here for the minimum again, who knows. 

But Hardy...he's not going to get a huge contract, but someone is going to offer him a legit 2nd contract of some sort, just based on his potential to create offense, which is  the thing that never, ever goes out of style in the NBA. If you don't play him this season, it's going to be Josh Green all over again. Personally, I'd want to know what I had BEFORE he hits RFA. If you figure it out and don't want him, you could maybe move him at the deadline or use his RFA to your advantage, somehow, rather than give him a contract and then regret it, or worse - let an asset walk for nothing.

I wouldn't already write off Hardy's potential to grow into a role just because Dinwiddie was signed. In fact I don't think there will be any issues. The Mavs still need an offensive creator on the bench that can come in and score at will.

The way I see it the Mavs have 2 defined roles for their guards: The orchestrator and the scorer. 

Luka is the orchestrator. He has the ball most of the time. Has a massive responsibility to not only score buckets but also set other guys up. Any guard who comes in off the bench to play this role has to do their best Luka impression, which just means you're setting guys up/scoring when needed.

The scorer is an easier role and is basically a traditional SG. You score buckets and you aren't that worried about setting others up. Kyrie is the scorer when Luka is on the court. He is probably one of the best in the league given his efficiency and shot diet. 

But what makes Kyrie so valuable is that he can float between Orchestrator and Scorer seamlessly. And the Mavs are looking to recreate this system off the bench. Looking at our guards:

Exum- Leans more toward an orchestrator. 
Hardy- Leans more toward a scorer. 
Grimes- Leans more toward a scorer.
Dinwiddie- Can either be an orchestrator or scorer. 

The addition of Dinwiddie I don't think has any bearing on Hardy's minutes and it really shouldn't be. I don't want Hardy being the Orchestrator. He's a bucket getter. Let him go get buckets. 

Seeing this, Hardy's biggest competition is Grimes. And both of those guys are going to be RFA's looking for paydays next summer. I think the Mavs wanted this friendly competition to see who gets the contract. I think the Mavs aren't going to pay both of them serious money and the player who can show they can fill that 6th man scoring role will be the one to get the contract. The other will be used in a trade to replace the Maxi role.

[KillerLeft]

I wouldn't already write off Hardy's potential to grow into a role just because Dinwiddie was signed. In fact I don't think there will be any issues. The Mavs still need an offensive creator on the bench that can come in and score at will.

The way I see it the Mavs have 2 defined roles for their guards: The orchestrator and the scorer. 

Luka is the orchestrator. He has the ball most of the time. Has a massive responsibility to not only score buckets but also set other guys up. Any guard who comes in off the bench to play this role has to do their best Luka impression, which just means you're setting guys up/scoring when needed.

The scorer is an easier role and is basically a traditional SG. You score buckets and you aren't that worried about setting others up. Kyrie is the scorer when Luka is on the court. He is probably one of the best in the league given his efficiency and shot diet. 

But what makes Kyrie so valuable is that he can float between Orchestrator and Scorer seamlessly. And the Mavs are looking to recreate this system off the bench. Looking at our guards:

Exum- Leans more toward an orchestrator. 
Hardy- Leans more toward a scorer. 
Grimes- Leans more toward a scorer.
Dinwiddie- Can either be an orchestrator or scorer. 

The addition of Dinwiddie I don't think has any bearing on Hardy's minutes and it really shouldn't be. I don't want Hardy being the Orchestrator. He's a bucket getter. Let him go get buckets. 

Seeing this, Hardy's biggest competition is Grimes. And both of those guys are going to be RFA's looking for paydays next summer. I think the Mavs wanted this friendly competition to see who gets the contract. I think the Mavs aren't going to pay both of them serious money and the player who can show they can fill that 6th man scoring role will be the one to get the contract. The other will be used in a trade to replace the Maxi role.

I don't see it this way at all. 

I think Hardy and Dinwiddie are basically the same, exact player, just at different points in their development. Neither of them is a "PG" in the way this board has been trying to claim matters (but it doesn't matter, anymore). Hardy is more talented, but far less experienced, so Dinwiddie is going to be the easier choice for Kidd all season, which is unfortunate, imo. 

They can play together, but it's not at all ideal. Neither of them playing with Kyrie is at all ideal. Any of those three will work next to Luka most of the time, but all three are defensive liabilities. 

I was ready to live in a world where the guys rotating as bench guards were Hardy, Grimes and Exum, in whatever order. Dinwiddie taking any time away from any of those three is a bummer for me, sorry.

[KillerLeft]

The clearest way I can say this: This is ABSOLUTELY a threat to Hardy's role for this season, and in fact, is probably a sign that the Mavs have already determined they don't believe in him, at least not fully.

I have been hoping that Hardy could have a good, developmental year in a meaty role (15-25 minutes off the bench, consistently), with the worst case being that he's better than Dinwiddie is now by the end of the season, and the best case being that he's a dark horse 6moty candidate. Either this has the chance tp get in the way of that developmental season or the Mavs agree with the majority of this board and don't believe that season has much chance of happening. Either way, it's a bummer for me.

It would've been one thing if they had felt this way and gotten a Bogdanovic through trade, or taken a chance on someone like Fultz. Those are potentially future altering swings. Dinwiddie is almost done, if he's not done already. I'm so much less excited about him than I was two hours ago about Hardy.

[SleepingHero]

All Things Mavs (@All_Things_Mavs)
Shams Charania says the Lakers we’re looking to bring Spencer Dinwiddie back this summer, but he chose Dallas

Two for two now

[SleepingHero]

The clearest way I can say this: This is ABSOLUTELY a threat to Hardy's role for this season, and in fact, is probably a sign that the Mavs have already determined they don't believe in him, at least not fully.

I have been hoping that Hardy could have a good, developmental year in a meaty role (15-25 minutes off the bench, consistently), with the worst case being that he's better than Dinwiddie is now by the end of the season, and the best case being that he's a dark horse 6moty candidate. Either this has the chance tp get in the way of that developmental season or the Mavs agree with the majority of this board and don't believe that season has much chance of happening. Either way, it's a bummer for me.

It would've been one thing if they had felt this way and gotten a Bogdanovic through trade, or taken a chance on someone like Fultz. Those are potentially future altering swings. Dinwiddie is almost done, if he's not done already. I'm so much less excited about him than I was two hours ago about Hardy.

But you're not making much sense here. 

If Dinwiddie is as close to being done as you're describing (which is a separate discussion worth having), then shouldn't Hardy easily take his minutes at that point?

Kidd has never shown that he is over-reliant on age and experience just because he prefers that like RC. He always plays around with rotations but most importantly plays the most talented guys whenever possible.

He gave Brunson his starting role halfway into the season. He was playing Lively 26mpg until the Gafford addition. 

Point is, if you can fill the role and play well, Kidd could care less about age and experience. In that vein is Dinwiddie is washed, why is Hardy's minutes in jeopardy?

[Deebo]

Finally. big signing. SPENCER IS BACK’nnn

[KillerLeft]

But you're not making much sense here. 

If Dinwiddie is as close to being done as you're describing (which is a separate discussion worth having), then shouldn't Hardy easily take his minutes at that point?

Coaches don't think this way, nor should they. 

Kidd is going to play the guy who gives his team the best chance of winning on any given night. The guy who has been in those circumstances, with the most experience, who won't be afraid to try to score, and who won't make mistakes. That guy will be Dinwiddie. 

There's a reason he kept trying to go to Hardaway in the playoffs - because the willingness to shoot, or to try to create offense in any way, is so, so, so much more important than we realize as fans. We chastise players for "bad shots" but in reality, that's what the coaches WANT. Guys who move the defense with confidence. (Now THAT is a separate discussion worth having). 

Dinwiddie is more confident and capable of taking "bad shots" than Hardaway could be on his most irrationally confident day. All Mavs fans know is that those shots went in during that one playoff stretch in '22. If I'm running this team, those minutes go to Hardy, period. I think this is a terrible mistake.

[omahen]

If Mavs plan to have two of Luka/Kyrie/Klay on court all the time, there is little space for guys like Hardy or SD. They need defenders next to them to keep the defense decent enough, unless they think Klay is still a very good defender. I think most of opportunities for Hardy and SD will come in case of injuries and I think both would probably be out of playoff rotation if everyone is healthy.

[Chicagojk]

I was not a big Spencer fan before Dallas. I was pleasantly surprised his first season in Dallas. Not crazy when he started the following year. He was pretty bad last year. Some "he is not trying" comments from Nets fans last year. In LAL, it looks like he was trying but he was strangely quiet on the floor. Just sort of there.

I would have gone a few different directions this offseason, but I think I was focused on internal growth and development. I think what the moves this offseason has shown is Dallas wants to win right now and are not going to take anything by chance. While these are win now moves, they have kept their picks and young players (at least for now).

At his best, I think Spencer works best playing off a lead guard like he did with Luka and Jalen. He can get by bigger players off the dribble (and get to the foul line). He has always been an average/below average volume three point shooter, but he shot well in Dallas. I think Exum is good and I hope he gets a chance to compete for minutes. My thoughts on Jaden are well known. I just think Dallas wants a big in the game, shooting (some of our shooters are TBD) and two guys who can create and get into the lane. In theory, we have three guys. I would rate Jaden as a .5 at this. Jaden is sort of feast or famine at this stage in his career.

We will see how this plays out. Team chemistry can be very fragile. Dallas has a lot of mouths that are expecting playing time. At times this can be a strong advantage. Other times it can be a virus that eats away at the core of the team.

[SleepingHero]

Coaches don't think this way, nor should they. 

Kidd is going to play the guy who gives his team the best chance of winning on any given night. The guy who has been in those circumstances, with the most experience, who won't be afraid to try to score, and who won't make mistakes. That guy will be Dinwiddie. 

There's a reason he kept trying to go to Hardaway in the playoffs - because the willingness to shoot, or to try to create offense in any way, is so, so, so much more important than we realize as fans. We chastise players for "bad shots" but in reality, that's what the coaches WANT. Guys who move the defense with confidence. (Now THAT is a separate discussion worth having). 

Dinwiddie is more confident and capable of taking "bad shots" than Hardaway could be on his most irrationally confident day. All Mavs fans know is that those shots went in during that one playoff stretch in '22. If I'm running this team, those minutes go to Hardy, period. I think this is a terrible mistake.

But I don't see the evidence that Kidd thinks this way. I agree he plays the guy who gives the team the best chance on any given night, but he's not looking for guys to absorb shots just because. 

THJ was given a shot because the Mavs were desperate for any sort of 3pt shooting. The team as a whole up until that point was shooting 22% from downtown. At that point Kidd was desperate for shot making, not shot taking. 

Dinwiddie's shot diet is questionable for sure, but if he's just hoisting up shots and missing them, then Kidd will absolutely move on and play Hardy. He's done that time and again. THJ's role was reduced to nothing post TDL. Exum's role was literally given to Hardy in the WCF because Hardy performed. We've seen this already. 

If you think Dinwiddie is as washed as you say he is, then Hardy is going to be played a ton. 

The only player I think Hardy has to be worried about is Grimes. I can easily see Grimes, not Dinwiddie, being such a good 6th man that it makes Hardy redundant.


(As an aside, isn't it so refreshing that we're discussing 15th men and their roles as being a "terrible mistake"??? Sheesh!)

[SleepingHero]

Also, doesn't this mean we basically traded DFS+2029 FRP for Kyrie?

[BigDirk41]

I love this move. Perfect fill in for all the games Luka and Kyrie will miss during the season. Spencer thrived in Dallas. I see no reason to be upset about a final roster spot. 

Nico has definitely earned some trust at this point. Also we know if it doesn't work, he'll correct at the TDL. No reason to worry about this. If Hardy can ball, that will work itself out. He has to make the most of his opportunities and make it hard on Kidd to not play him. That's on Hardy, not on Nico or Kidd.