Trade & FA 2024-25: NYK Shopping Mitchell Robinson?

[fifteenth]

My two cents is this: 

When Cuban bought the team, he did many great things to improve quality of life for his team significantly, and for the visiting team quite a bit, too. Mood lighting, nicer towels, playstations, better catering, one of the first teams to own their own plane, etc, etc, etc. Over the years, the other owners were forced to begrudgingly catch up to those changes, and while Cuban is still being talked about as an innovator within certain DFW circles, the perception of these changes around the league hasn't been quite so postive for some years now, and THIS current generation of players probably takes those kind of amenities so for granted that it wouldn't even register with them that he was the first to offer them, even if they did know that, which I doubt they do. 

Meanwhile, he has become one of the cheaper, and from certain players' perspectives (fair or not), more duplicitous guys running a team. I think the last shred of "players' owner" capital Cuban had flew out of the window when he chose not to allow the 2011 Mavs to defend their title. Chandler and Barea deserved to get paid HERE, because they brought a title HERE. We saw how quickly everyone but Dirk found an exit over the next couple of years. I really think people around the league noticed that. 

Also, and I say this with full respect for what he did for our Mavs during his first decade here, Cuban is a world class douchebag. He has one of the least magnetic personalities on the planet, as anyone who ever tried to stomach even one episode of "the Mark Cuban Show" can attest. 

You think guys like Luka WANT the owner sitting 6 feet away from the bench, shouting things intended to be helpful, but very likely coming off as a clueless fan who they must acknowledge because he pays them? I imagine that's literally the worst part of playing here for most of them. 

But NOW, they have a top 5 player entering his prime, a universally respected NBA icon in Kyrie saying great things about the organization every time a microphone is put in his face, and when you watch the team, you can tell they enjoy playing with one another. And, they're undeniably a GOOD, YOUNG team. Cuban deserves some of the credit for that, sure, but to my thinking, his exit (to whatever extent he actually exits - his seats will probably still be his seats) paves the way for the next phase of this build. My sense is that people really respect Nico Harrison, and the first thing I noticed about him is that he carries himself VERY confidently and respectfully. I'd say that if Dumont is able to do what an owner should and get out the GM's way, this is good news on many fronts, not the least of which is a likely improvement in how the franchise is viewed among the player fraternity. 

And, the BEST part is this: if Harrison sucks, he'll be fired. I'm not advocating for a revolving door at GM or Head Coach - that's how bad teams operate. But, the GM must be someone who CAN be held accountable, and not the damn owner of the franchise. Just ask any Cowboys fan.

This is right on, I think. 

Somehow the resentment in my heart about how Cuban handled 2012 and most of Dirk's last decade has subsided (mostly because real life is more important and because we drafted Luka), but he absolutely has continued to be an awkward, meddling amateur, even if he seems to have been less so since hiring Nico. 

So, yeah. See ya, Cubes. Thanks for the fancy locker rooms, keeping Dirk around and hiring Rick. You suck for 2012 and Dirk's last decade in the NBA, and the other stuff Killer mentioned. 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[KillerLeft]

I will make you guys a deal.

Y'all keep making posts about trading for Lebron... and I will keep responding with a "I'm taking my talents to Salt Lake City!!". Or y'all can cease and desist with that silliness and I will abstain from being silly also.

Trading for Lebron is one of the stupidest things this FO could do. Worse than trading for Grant Williams. I mean, I know this is the Mavs FO and they have done stupid things in the past... so let's not encourage them... and let's hope that Dennis Lindsey is a sensible voice of reason in there... and let's hope all of this for Luka's sake too. The poor guy, how many burdens do y'all want Luka to have carried before he even turns 25?

So, whaddaya say? Shall we call a truce?

Nah, people are free to pine after LeBron all they want. There's a lot of obvious good that would come with such a move. You are free to disagree, and there are some things that might be less than ideal about that situation, too, so both viewpoints have validity. 

All you'll accomplish by beating people over the heads with the hypothetical Luka exit to Utah, of all unlikely places, is making yourself seem silly. And, if you do it enough to be annoying, a line we are dangerously close to, someone - not me, mind you, but someone less bound to ethics and fairness, but totally not me - will just ban your ass.

[mvossman]

THjr for Isaiah Stewart?

We’ve been linked to him a bunch of times over the last months. Dude shot the three well last season, I don’t know much else about him but I could see that eventually turn into the Kleber-replacement. 38% from three on almost 4 attempts per game.

Maybe that’s even your new young starting PF.

The interest in Lively and PJ was also rumored long before the front office actually made the moves to bring them in.

If they like Stewart I’d happily trust them. 

Irving
Doncic
Washington
Stewart
Lively

+ Hardy, Green, Omax, Kleber, Gafford

+ potentially DJJ back

Youd still have plenty of options to bring in a bench scorer.

That trade would require at least a first added to it and makes DJJ much less likely.  Don't we already have a starting PF in Washington?  That starting lineup doesn't really have a point of attack defender and Stewart has never shot better than 33% before this season.

[KillerLeft]

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

42!

[F Gump]

Can you expand on this.  I remember there were things that couldn't be done if they happened post the TDL and before the Moratorium.  But, I can't find them in the write-ups on the new CBA.


In the past, if you made a legal trade in June, the salary on the books simply carried over to the new season.  So, if Dallas took on salary in a June trade that put them over the tax or apron the next season (but not 23/24)...not a big deal.  But, from what you are writing (and my vague recollection), it doesn't appear we can take on extra salary in a deal in 23/24 that puts us over the first apron in 24/25.  Thanks in advance.

Heres where i work from now. The new rules are designed to force the same restrictions on a team for the upcoming season, for any transaction after a season is over, with no distinction as to whether they were done in June or July. 

I am afk and notes right now, so that generality is all I have. But the only real working way is to look at where the team ends up in July as a result, in relation to the aprons, then work backwards from there. 

In your example, adding 2.xm via a THJ trade increases the bottom line by that amount, and puts them over the Apron with their existing commitments. There would be nasty ramifications, I suspect  because the +salary trade creates a hard cap that would last to 6/30/25, and now the totals don't work. In fact, the NBA could very likely just reject it.

[RGP1981]

Nah, people are free to pine after LeBron all they want. There's a lot of obvious good that would come with such a move. You are free to disagree, and there are some things that might be less than ideal about that situation, too, so both viewpoints have validity. 

All you'll accomplish by beating people over the heads with the hypothetical Luka exit to Utah, of all unlikely places, is making yourself seem silly. And, if you do it enough to be annoying, a line we are dangerously close to, someone - not me, mind you, but someone less bound to ethics and fairness, but totally not me - will just ban your ass.

Well, if that person wants to be silly on top of lacking in ethics and fairness too... then that's their choice. Y'all will miss me though... and all the answers to the tests that I keep handing out for free.

And I'm glad you're not that person. You're a cool guy (edit: or gal, I don't wanna assume). :thumbsup:

[fifteenth]

Nah, people are free to pine after LeBron all they want....

Hey, now. LeBron could show Luka how to take care of himself!

[RGP1981]

Hey, now. LeBron could show Luka how to take care of himself!

That's the only positive I can see too.

[mvossman]

Scanned through the UFAs for this summer, skipping any who had POs or TOs, and who kind of fit the DAL timeline ( 30 y/o or less). Some names are new to me (don't follow the league as intently as some here) but several have been brought up in past discusssions. I have no idea about the true availability of some of these or whether any are looking for a change of scenery but just dropping them in the bucket for reference and discussion. Maybe some will be tempted to give it a shot in DAL now that the Mavs have reached "contender" status.

Tyus Jones
Buddy Heild
Gary Trent
Pascal Siakam
Malik Monk
Valanciunas
T Horton-Tucker
Malik Beasley
Miles Bridges
Kelly Oubre
Nic Claxton

The problem with this list is that we are scrambling just to make room to spend the MLE.  Most of these guys will be out of our price range unless we are trying to S&T which is dicey with the new CBA.  The lists to look at would be a list of every NBA player that is rumored to be on the block, and a list of point guards who might go for the BAE.

[fifteenth]

That's the only positive I can see too.

I wouldn't want to pay LeBron what he's probably worth. But if he's playing a role and minutes befitting his current physical abilities, he'd have plenty positive to add!

[KillerLeft]

I wouldn't want to pay LeBron what he's probably worth. But if he's playing a role and minutes befitting his current physical abilities, he'd have plenty positive to add!

There are three main negatives with bringing in LeBron:

1) I promise, he is worth more to the Lakers than his current on-court value. There will be no "he's over-the-hill" discount when it comes to the trade. It would take everything the Mavs have to offer to get it done, if they even have the assets to do it. I won't speculate about names, but my suspicion is that it would HURT. 

2) His age is obviously not conducive to Luka's timeline, long term. In conjunction with #1, the Mavs would lose some up and coming youth (probably most of it, honestly) to bring in someone very NOT young, probably along with some less than ideal crap from LA - the type of crap the Mavs are on the cusp of not having on their roster, finally. 

3) Kyrie didn't turn this place into a circus the way many of us thought he would, and that's great. LeBron 100% would. So, there'd be that to look forward to. 

All of those factors would have me leaning against a pursuit of LeBron, personally. I like the Mavs' current youth movement. 

Having said that, if the Mavs were somehow able to add LeBron to a core of Luka and Kyrie without losing Lively (not a given, sadly - first round pick equivalents would be part of the cost) then they'd probably be the favorites to come out of the West next year, and they might even be title favorites overnight. Can you imagine how much differently they'd be treated by opposing teams, media and even the referees? Can you imagine how freaking SMART of a team they'd be? 

It's all academic, because he just got the coach he wanted (not the one the Lakers wanted) and we've all been following him and the recent NBA enough to know that every nugget leaked about his situation is designed carefully to force the Lakers to do something he wants them to do, like pay him more than they want, or like trade up to make sure they can draft his son much too high, or something else that's stupid. He's going to retire a Laker.

[fifteenth]

There are three main negatives with bringing in LeBron:

1) I promise, he is worth more to the Lakers than his current on-court value. There will be no "he's over-the-hill" discount when it comes to the trade. It would take everything the Mavs have to offer to get it done, if they even have the assets to do it. I won't speculate about names, but my suspicion is that it would HURT. 

2) His age is obviously not conducive to Luka's timeline, long term. In conjunction with #1, the Mavs would lose some up and coming youth (probably most of it, honestly) to bring in someone very NOT young, probably along with some less than ideal crap from LA - the type of crap the Mavs are on the cusp of not having on their roster, finally. 

3) Kyrie didn't turn this place into a circus the way many of us thought he would, and that's great. LeBron 100% would. So, there'd be that to look forward to. 

All of those factors would have me leaning against a pursuit of LeBron, personally. I like the Mavs' current youth movement. 

Having said that, if the Mavs were somehow able to add LeBron to a core of Luka and Kyrie without losing Lively (not a given, sadly - first round pick equivalents would be part of the cost) then they'd probably be the favorites to come out of the West next year, and they might even be title favorites overnight. Can you imagine how much differently they'd be treated by opposing teams, media and even the referees? Can you imagine how freaking SMART of a team they'd be? 

It's all academic, because he just got the coach he wanted (not the one the Lakers wanted) and we've all been following him and the recent NBA enough to know that every nugget leaked about his situation is designed carefully to force the Lakers to do something he wants them to do, like pay him more than they want, or like trade up to make sure they can draft his son much too high, or something else that's stupid. He's going to retire a Laker.

Good stuff. Item #1 on your list is all I need to say "no," even if item #3 were a possibility. 

If LeBron can still take a shot at making a good playoff run on a team where he is the best player, then he should go for it.

[KillerLeft]

Here is Jason Timpf's breakdown of the Finals. I have it cued up to the beginning of his two EXCEPTIONAL Mavs segments, with which I agree 100%. Every single word of this is right on the money. As always, the conclusion is: get with the times and run more 5-out. It's a little frustrating for me, because while this team has changed for the better in many ways, they have taken 2-3 steps backwards, strategically, since the end of the Carlisle era. But, it's not hopeless, and I think this is all doable. 

https://youtu.be/V23LsIjnKQE?si=a3pNr0-g_iFAvkxV&t=1736

EVERY SERIOUS MAVS FAN SHOULD WATCH THIS. SOME OF YOU SHOULD WATCH IT TWICE.

[KillerLeft]

Of particular note, even in the event that the Mavs continue on with the antiquated 4-out spacing system, is the bit about how every team just watched Boston put on a clinic about how to grind the Mavs' offense to a halt. The solution, which he discusses at length, is ABOVE THE BREAK 3'S, not relying on corner 3's.

In particular, DJJ and PJ are the culprits here, as they are the forwards. So, when I read names in this thread like DeMar DeRozan, that makes me shake my head quite a bit. Better player than the current forwards? Sure. A solution to what caught up to Dallas, and what they're about to face often next season? Abso-freaking-lutely not. DeRozan is not a fit.

Dallas needs SHOOTING, and that shooting needs to not be limited to corner shooting, and that shooting can't come at the expense of defensive competence (because Luka and Kyrie are fixtures in the mix). This is a hard target to hit. Maybe one or both of those guys can improve with reps over the summer (I think PJ can, for the record), but any new player targets we kick around here probably need to check ALL of those boxes.

[fifteenth]

Of particular note, even in the event that the Mavs continue on with the antiquated 4-out spacing system, is the bit about how every team just watched Boston put on a clinic about how to grind the Mavs' offense to a halt. The solution, which he discusses at length, is ABOVE THE BREAK 3'S, not relying on corner 3's.

In particular, DJJ and PJ are the culprits here, as they are the forwards. So, when I read names in this thread like DeMar DeRozan, that makes me shake my head quite a bit. Better player than the current forwards? Sure. A solution to what caught up to Dallas, and what they're about to face often next season? Abso-freaking-lutely not. DeRozan is not a fit.

Dallas needs SHOOTING, and that shooting needs to not be limited to corner shooting, and that shooting can't come at the expense of defensive competence (because Luka and Kyrie are fixtures in the mix). This is a hard target to hit. Maybe one or both of those guys can improve with reps over the summer (I think PJ can, for the record), but any new player targets we kick around here probably need to check ALL of those boxes.

Bring back #10!

[KillerLeft]

Bring back #10!

Hardaway? Nah, I think that chapter is over, although this definitely sheds light on why Kidd tried like hell to get him going, right up until the bitter end. A version of THJ who was playing well would've helped in this series A LOT.

[mvossman]

Of particular note, even in the event that the Mavs continue on with the antiquated 4-out spacing system, is the bit about how every team just watched Boston put on a clinic about how to grind the Mavs' offense to a halt. The solution, which he discusses at length, is ABOVE THE BREAK 3'S, not relying on corner 3's.

In particular, DJJ and PJ are the culprits here, as they are the forwards. So, when I read names in this thread like DeMar DeRozan, that makes me shake my head quite a bit. Better player than the current forwards? Sure. A solution to what caught up to Dallas, and what they're about to face often next season? Abso-freaking-lutely not. DeRozan is not a fit.

Dallas needs SHOOTING, and that shooting needs to not be limited to corner shooting, and that shooting can't come at the expense of defensive competence (because Luka and Kyrie are fixtures in the mix). This is a hard target to hit. Maybe one or both of those guys can improve with reps over the summer (I think PJ can, for the record), but any new player targets we kick around here probably need to check ALL of those boxes.

Names like Caruso, Grimes, Dorian, Cam Johnson come to mind.  This is basically back to surrounding Luka with 3&D guys who ideally can do a little more on offense (drive on closeouts or secondary playmaking).

[Knutsen]

Of particular note, even in the event that the Mavs continue on with the antiquated 4-out spacing system, is the bit about how every team just watched Boston put on a clinic about how to grind the Mavs' offense to a halt. The solution, which he discusses at length, is ABOVE THE BREAK 3'S, not relying on corner 3's.

In particular, DJJ and PJ are the culprits here, as they are the forwards. So, when I read names in this thread like DeMar DeRozan, that makes me shake my head quite a bit. Better player than the current forwards? Sure. A solution to what caught up to Dallas, and what they're about to face often next season? Abso-freaking-lutely not. DeRozan is not a fit.

Dallas needs SHOOTING, and that shooting needs to not be limited to corner shooting, and that shooting can't come at the expense of defensive competence (because Luka and Kyrie are fixtures in the mix). This is a hard target to hit. Maybe one or both of those guys can improve with reps over the summer (I think PJ can, for the record), but any new player targets we kick around here probably need to check ALL of those boxes.

You know who shot 41 percent on 318 above the break threes this season? LeBron did!

[fifteenth]

Hardaway? Nah, I think that chapter is over, although this definitely sheds light on why Kidd tried like hell to get him going, right up until the bitter end. A version of THJ who was playing well would've helped in this series A LOT.

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[KillerLeft]

You know who shot 41 percent on 318 above the break threes this season? LeBron did!

Oh, for sure. The on-court advantages to adding LeBron are numerous and obvious. I meant what I said about him making the team a favorite overnight. 

I'm not opposed, I just think A) it's a long shot, B) it would cost much more (in trade) than we'd like to think and C) he's 100 years old, so the timeline would become extremely short.