FIBA Qualifying Tournament: USA loses to Germany|Gold medal between Germany+Serbia

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Looks like we’ll have to wait longer for Luka to grow up. He whined like a petulant child the entire game.

[omahen]

Looks like we’ll have to wait longer for Luka to grow up. He whined like a petulant child the entire game.

I have to disagree. Slovenia didn't lose because of complaining and we didn't lose because Luka was ejected. And I would say that complaining was at quite a reasonable level, just the refs took a really strict criteria. Players didn't adjust that they basically demanded absolute silence. I think refs had two goals before the game - stop any Brooks shenanigans, which is why he was called for that unsportsmanlike foul very early and then ejected later. None of it was really anything special. On the other side, they didn't want any complaining and at least one technical (to Hrovat) was extremely strict, as he basically didn't do anything but show a surprised face. Still as I said, players should adjust to the criteria. 

Luka had to work extremely hard for every action, being hounded by Brooks and sole focus of the defense for the whole game. Rest of the team is just too limited. He was frustrated because of that and reacted a couple of times.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I didn’t say that’s the reason they lost.

He left his man wide open for threes at least a handful of times complaining on the offensive end instead of running back on defense. Same story we’ve seen from him in Dallas. Every time he misses a shot, he stands there and complains.

He did the refs are paid for sign again this game. IMO that should be worthy of a suspension both in FIBA and the NBA. Imagine if someone like James Harden or Booker behaved like Luka does. We’d never shut up about it.

Not like the team is ready to win this year anyway.

[omahen]

I didn’t say that’s the reason they lost.

He left his man wide open for threes at least a handful of times complaining on the offensive end instead of running back on defense. Same story we’ve seen from him in Dallas. Every time he misses a shot, he stands there and complains.

He did the refs are paid for sign again this game. IMO that should be worthy of a suspension both in FIBA and the NBA. Imagine if someone like James Harden or Booker behaved like Luka does. We’d never shut up about it.

Not like the team is ready to win this year anyway.

 I guess we didn't see it same way, because I didn't notice the not returning back to defence you are mentioning. The game was very physical and I could say that Canada got more and quicker whistles. Canadian commentators put it really nicely on the FIBA stream - Luka is very difficult to ref. He is not a lightning quick athlete, he plays a methodical and physical game with a lot of contact and that is why refs often don't call a foul on him. You know, a little push from Doncic, a little push back from defense and refs swallow the whistle both times. On the other hand the quick player like Shai gets the whistle most of the time for that (same) little push from defense. Which is what frustrates Luka.

I agree that the refs are paid sign should be technical.

[SleepingHero]

Its upsetting to see Luka still have his whiny attitude. It lost Slovenia this game. He doesn't have it mentally.

[omahen]

Its upsetting to see Luka still have his whiny attitude. It lost Slovenia this game. He doesn't have it mentally.

No, it didn't. Slovenia couldn't win this game. Only chance would be if Canada would be ice cold from three. Btw, this is what got Luka ejected

Sportsnet on X: "Following his second technical foul, Luka Dončić has been ejected from the game. ? #FIBAWC https://t.co/Fpg05QOaMO" / X (twitter.com)

[SleepingHero]

No, it didn't. Slovenia couldn't win this game. Only chance would be if Canada would be ice cold from three. Btw, this is what got Luka ejected

Sportsnet on X: "Following his second technical foul, Luka Dončić has been ejected from the game. ? #FIBAWC https://t.co/Fpg05QOaMO" / X (twitter.com)

Agree to disagree.

Luka was not there mentally the entire game. The refs (and Brooks) took him out of his groove and he complained every time there was contact. The game was tied going into the 2nd half and in the 3rd quarter Luka just kept complaining while Canada built the lead.

If Luka had matured he'd have realized that the refs aren't going to be swayed by any protests, and that he was playing right into Canada's gameplan. 

Doesn't matter anymore, but he's said year after year he has to get better at not complaining at the refs and he continues his brat behavior.

[KillerLeft]

Doesn't matter anymore, but he's said year after year he has to get better at not complaining at the refs and he continues his brat behavior.

I'm not super worried about the point I'm about to make, but I'm kind of starting to wonder if he'll ever be likable again. He was FUN those first few years, and seems to get less and less likable as he gets comfortable in the league. That's maybe not the worst thing in the world, because Dirk was like the all-time coolest superstar ever and I remember wishing he had more of a killer instinct during the middle of his career. I think he could've used a BIGGER sense of entitlement, in a way. But man oh man, are we seeing the other side of that coin now. This is probably closer to what Kobe was like as a youngster. 

I just want to see Luka commit to getting back on defense this year. Obviously, that isn't something we should have to worry about at this level.

[omahen]

Agree to disagree.

Luka was not there mentally the entire game. The refs (and Brooks) took him out of his groove and he complained every time there was contact. The game was tied going into the 2nd half and in the 3rd quarter Luka just kept complaining while Canada built the lead.

If Luka had matured he'd have realized that the refs aren't going to be swayed by any protests, and that he was playing right into Canada's gameplan. 

Doesn't matter anymore, but he's said year after year he has to get better at not complaining at the refs and he continues his brat behavior.

Or perhaps there wasn't any other way to win unless refs whistled every contact? He was battling an extremely physical game that took huge amount of energy. Each time to get open to receive the ball, each drive, each shot. And then he doesn't get the whistles that were awarded on the other side. I don't think Luka played worse because of the outside factors. I think he gave everything he could. How should he have played for the result to be different?

[omahen]

I'm not super worried about the point I'm about to make, but I'm kind of starting to wonder if he'll ever be likable again. He was FUN those first few years, and seems to get less and less likable as he gets comfortable in the league. That's maybe not the worst thing in the world, because Dirk was like the all-time coolest superstar ever and I remember wishing he had more of a killer instinct during the middle of his career. I think he could've used a BIGGER sense of entitlement, in a way. But man oh man, are we seeing the other side of that coin now. This is probably closer to what Kobe was like as a youngster. 

I just want to see Luka commit to getting back on defense this year. Obviously, that isn't something we should have to worry about at this level.

I think everyone is just being too harsh. Luka is a human being with his positives and negatives. He is not a robot. He is a basketball savant but he is also emotional. That is in his nature. If you are expecting him to change who he is, you will be dissapointed. He is who he is. He is also still very young, immature. I think he will improve with time, but I am patient. Personally, I take him for who he is. With his positives and negatives.

What can really be done, is help him. Things I have been saying for years. 

First of all, the culture. Instead of building the correct environment where everyone is fully accountable, both in Dallas and Slovenian team the reality is, that the organizational structure is dysfunctional. Just look at the main face of Dallas. Who complains most about refs? Who acts as an immature teenager and never takes accountability for his actions? Which coach started his tenure with "pass the ball to Luka"? Slovenian national basketball organisation is a very similar environment. This is not an environment that would help immature person mature, but unfortunately exactly the opposite. He is in an environment where he feels he needs to do everything and only when he does everything the result comes. But mostly even that is not enough. Person such as Luka should be surrounded by figures of outmost authority, who would be there to do their job not to just do what Luka wants. This means a famous coach, best GM with a name. Mavs did exactly the opposite.

Secondly, get him vet leader(s). Guys who have achieved things but can still play, not vets on their last legs clinging to that 15th spot on the roster. High character guys. Mavs didn't have a single guy like that the whole time Luka was in Dallas and has none on the national team. Luka achived best results with Real, where he was best player but surrounded by a bunch of experienced Spanish national team members, huge names in Spain. They were the ones setting the culture, not Luka. The coach was also a huge authority, no one would oppose him (also, Europe is not player driven).

[KillerLeft]

I think everyone is just being too harsh. Luka is a human being with his positives and negatives. He is not a robot. He is a basketball savant but he is also emotional. That is in his nature. If you are expecting him to change who he is, you will be dissapointed. He is who he is. He is also still very young, immature. I think he will improve with time, but I am patient. Personally, I take him for who he is. With his positives and negatives.

What can really be done, is help him. Things I have been saying for years. 

First of all, the culture. Instead of building the correct environment where everyone is fully accountable, both in Dallas and Slovenian team the reality is, that the organizational structure is dysfunctional. Just look at the main face of Dallas. Who complains most about refs? Who acts as an immature teenager and never takes accountability for his actions? Which coach started his tenure with "pass the ball to Luka"? Slovenian national basketball organisation is a very similar environment. This is not an environment that would help immature person mature, but unfortunately exactly the opposite. He is in an environment where he feels he needs to do everything and only when he does everything the result comes. But mostly even that is not enough. Person such as Luka should be surrounded by figures of outmost authority, who would be there to do their job not to just do what Luka wants. This means a famous coach, best GM with a name. Mavs did exactly the opposite.

Secondly, get him vet leader(s). Guys who have achieved things but can still play, not vets on their last legs clinging to that 15th spot on the roster. High character guys. Mavs didn't have a single guy like that the whole time Luka was in Dallas and has none on the national team. Luka achived best results with Real, where he was best player but surrounded by a bunch of experienced Spanish national team members, huge names in Spain. They were the ones setting the culture, not Luka. The coach was also a huge authority, no one would oppose him (also, Europe is not player driven).

My bro, I don't disagree with ANY of that. You and I are on the same page, especially about the last paragraph (the biggest cost of losing Brunson). 

But, just saying, some of it is on him. He does need to grow up and get back on defense. I'm sorry, that's just how I see it. I don't think that will solve everything, but it's a start, and there is literally nothing anyone can say that will ever make someone letting their teammates defend 4 on 5 seem ok to me.

[ItsGoTime]

I think everyone is just being too harsh. Luka is a human being with his positives and negatives. He is not a robot. He is a basketball savant but he is also emotional. That is in his nature. If you are expecting him to change who he is, you will be dissapointed. He is who he is. He is also still very young, immature. I think he will improve with time, but I am patient. Personally, I take him for who he is. With his positives and negatives.

What can really be done, is help him. Things I have been saying for years. 

First of all, the culture. Instead of building the correct environment where everyone is fully accountable, both in Dallas and Slovenian team the reality is, that the organizational structure is dysfunctional. Just look at the main face of Dallas. Who complains most about refs? Who acts as an immature teenager and never takes accountability for his actions? Which coach started his tenure with "pass the ball to Luka"? Slovenian national basketball organisation is a very similar environment. This is not an environment that would help immature person mature, but unfortunately exactly the opposite. He is in an environment where he feels he needs to do everything and only when he does everything the result comes. But mostly even that is not enough. Person such as Luka should be surrounded by figures of outmost authority, who would be there to do their job not to just do what Luka wants. This means a famous coach, best GM with a name. Mavs did exactly the opposite.

Secondly, get him vet leader(s). Guys who have achieved things but can still play, not vets on their last legs clinging to that 15th spot on the roster. High character guys. Mavs didn't have a single guy like that the whole time Luka was in Dallas and has none on the national team. Luka achived best results with Real, where he was best player but surrounded by a bunch of experienced Spanish national team members, huge names in Spain. They were the ones setting the culture, not Luka. The coach was also a huge authority, no one would oppose him (also, Europe is not player driven).

As a Dallas fan, it is slightly concerning that Kyrie is the first one too. I really hope orchestrating a team trade him is not a part of what Luka learns from Kyrie. I will say, I hope GWill, being a IDGAF player and already having that connection (agent) is a help to Luka in every way it could be.

[omahen]

As a Dallas fan, it is slightly concerning that Kyrie is the first one too. I really hope orchestrating a team trade him is not a part of what Luka learns from Kyrie. I will say, I hope GWill, being a IDGAF player and already having that connection (agent) is a help to Luka in every way it could be.

Kyrie is certainly not a person I would want to educate an immature star. His views on the world and his reactions are just not mature to me. I doubt GW is capable of being that guy. I think it should be established vet who has done things. Horford, Lowry, CP3 were guys mentioned in the past. Draymond Green was a "dream" this summer. These kind of guys.

[ItsGoTime]

Kyrie is certainly not a person I would want to educate an immature star. His views on the world and his reactions are just not mature to me. I doubt GW is capable of being that guy. I think it should be established vet who has done things. Horford, Lowry, CP3 were guys mentioned in the past. Draymond Green was a "dream" this summer. These kind of guys.

Oh for sure, I was really hoping we could get Siakam at one point who has a bit more in the tank than those you mentioned (PG3 would be a good one too IMO). My point was, Luka already lets his temper control him on the court. I just hope Kyrie doesn't help him see how to use it off the court too.

Edit: As far as GWill? That was more of a hope for a friendship-type relationship where GWill really has Luka's back on the court and he has the attitude to call him out on his crap too, but in a friendship kinda way (tough love). Always seeing Maxi in the background when a fight broke out has always been an issue to me.

[omahen]

Another thing to note from todays game. Canada was switching every screen involving Powell and he did very well guarding Luka. Luka was able to get by him, but it was never easy (also great help defense of his teammates). Never understood why Kidd used him (and also Maxi) in drop coverage last season. Basically exactly against their strength. It also showed how important a good center is next to Luka, as Canada totally took away the PnR game by switching every screen. Tobey was basically invisible whole game despite much smaller players being switched on him constantly. Our guys that were guarded by Olynik (he is mostly playing PF next to Powell) did not manage to put a good enough screen for Olynik to switch on Luka, neither are they capable of rolling as we didn't really have a true PF due to Cancar injury.

[KillerLeft]

Kyrie is certainly not a person I would want to educate an immature star. His views on the world and his reactions are just not mature to me. I doubt GW is capable of being that guy. I think it should be established vet who has done things. Horford, Lowry, CP3 were guys mentioned in the past. Draymond Green was a "dream" this summer. These kind of guys.

I agree with this, and this is why I was on board with the Lowry pursuit a couple summers back (and probably why the Mavs wanted him, too). He would've been a great fit in the role we're envisioning, regardless of whether or not he could still make a difference on the court. This is also part of why I was against the Kyrie trade.

But, it is what it is. Kyrie is who they got. No choice now but to hope he's up to it, because I agree - that veteran "I've seen all this before" leader is an ingredient that has been missing here.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I agree with this, and this is why I was on board with the Lowry pursuit a couple summers back (and probably why the Mavs wanted him, too). He would've been a great fit in the role we're envisioning, regardless of whether or not he could still make a difference on the court. This is also part of why I was against the Kyrie trade.

But, it is what it is. Kyrie is who they got. No choice now but to hope he's up to it, because I agree - that veteran "I've seen all this before" leader is an ingredient that has been missing here.

Kyrie isn't a leader, especially a vocal one.  He's a follower.  When things go sideways, he disappears. That's been proven on his stops prior to getting here. It's a shame too, because he's one of the most talented players in the game. Maybe he will change the narrative this season. I'll be watching.

[dirkfansince1998]

https://twitter.com/FIBAWC/status/1700110207437983978

Serbia in the finals. Considering that Jokic isn't playing that is at least a minor suprise.
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US v Germany is a great game. German starters are outplaying Brunson and co. Haliburton and the bench unit are carrying the US. Germany is moving the ball like the 2014 Spurs and getting open looks on every single possession. US play use superior individual talent in isolations.

[omahen]

Wow, Germany has a 5 point lead despite US shooting 50 % from three. Germany not much worse at 47 %. I am not watching the game, but looking at stats it seems US has great problem at center, even against an average one like Theiss.

[dirkfansince1998]

Andreas Obst > Jalen Brunson confirmed.