Statistically Determining Defense

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

OK, I've retooled my defensive model to be position-less, but weight production based upon profiles of what you want out of a position.  Here's what I have for Center.  I'll also do a profile for Center-Forward, Power Forward, Wing, and Guard.

Center Profile:
8% -- Paint-Dfg%
19% -- Paint-Missed FGs
6% -- Mid-Dfg%
13% -- Mid-Missed FGs
3% -- 3pt-Dfg%
11% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals
*Each of the above categories is normalized by a multiplier equal so that the league's best is 100.00
Note: this is position-less.  It rates the player's production in the categories and weights of above.  These are players classified as C, C-F, and F-C.

1 - Anthony Davis - 30yo, F-C, 75.77
2 - Brook Lopez - 35yo, C, 75.09
3 - Joel Embiid - 29yo, C-F, 74.14
4 - Nikola Jokic - 28yo, C, 72.66
5 - Rudy Gobert - 30yo, C, 70.99
6 - Kristaps Porzingis - 27yo, F-C, 69.71
7 - Evan Mobley - 21yo, C, 68.71
8 - Domantas Sabonis - 27yo, F-C, 68.19
9 - Nic Claxton - 24yo, C, 68.17
10 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, 67.22
11 - Jaren Jackson Jr. - 23yo, F-C, 65.37
12 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, 65.22
13 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, 64.64
14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, 64.28
15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, 62.91
16 - Steven Adams - 29yo, C, 62.08
17 - Walker Kessler - 21yo, C, 62.06
18 - Jakob Poeltl - 27yo, C, 60.08
19 - Alperen Sengun - 20yo, C, 59.91
20 - Al Horford - 37yo, C-F, 59.2
21 - Deandre Ayton - 24yo, C, 59.09
22 - Clint Capela - 29yo, C, 58.87
23 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 27yo, C-F, 58.59
24 - Bam Adebayo - 25yo, C-F, 58.09
25 - Julius Randle - 28yo, F-C, 57.23
26 - Wendell Carter Jr. - 24yo, C-F, 57.23
27 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, 56.33
28 - Lauri Markkanen - 26yo, F-C, 56.2
29 - Jonas Valanciunas - 31yo, C, 55.26
30 - Mitchell Robinson - 25yo, C-F, 55.08
31 - Kelly Olynyk - 32yo, F-C, 54.82
32 - Robert Williams III - 25yo, C-F, 53.8
33 - Mason Plumlee - 33yo, F-C, 53.63
34 - Isaiah Stewart - 22yo, F-C, 53.36
35 - Onyeka Okongwu - 22yo, F-C, 53.31
36 - John Collins - 25yo, F-C, 52.73
37 - Jalen Duren - 19yo, C, 52.03
38 - Mark Williams - 21yo, C, 51.79
39 - Daniel Gafford - 24yo, F-C, 51.61
40 - Drew Eubanks - 26yo, F-C, 48.3
41 - Isaiah Hartenstein - 25yo, C-F, 47.83
42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, 45.94
43 - Nick Richards - 25yo, C, 44.4
44 - Santi Aldama - 22yo, F-C, 43.81
45 - Bismack Biyombo - 30yo, C, 43.01
46 - Kevin Love - 34yo, F-C, 42.65
47 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, 42.3
48 - Jalen Smith - 23yo, F-C, 42.22
49 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, 41.78
50 - Dwight Powell - 31yo, F-C, 41.5
51 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, 40.58
52 - Thomas Bryant - 25yo, C-F, 39.89
53 - Moritz Wagner - 26yo, F-C, 39.79
54 - Charles Bassey - 22yo, C-F, 39.57
55 - Mo Bamba - 25yo, C, 39.31
56 - Dean Wade - 26yo, F-C, 38.27
57 - James Wiseman - 22yo, C, 37.72
58 - Chris Boucher - 30yo, F-C, 37.57
59 - Jock Landale - 27yo, C, 37.07
60 - Andre Drummond - 29yo, C, 37.01
61 - Mike Muscala - 31yo, F-C, 36.66
62 - Christian Koloko - 22yo, C, 36.59
63 - Jericho Sims - 24yo, C, 36.05
64 - Damian Jones - 27yo, C, 35.77
65 - Luke Kornet - 27yo, C-F, 35.35
66 - DeAndre Jordan - 34yo, C, 34.62
67 - Sandro Mamukelashvili - 24yo, F-C, 34.56
68 - Kai Jones - 22yo, C-F, 34.46
69 - Dewayne Dedmon - 33yo, C, 33.52
70 - Goga Bitadze - 23yo, C-F, 33.31
71 - Day'Ron Sharpe - 21yo, C, 33.29
72 - Willy Hernangomez - 29yo, C-F, 32.78
73 - Gorgui Dieng - 33yo, C, 32.57
74 - Bruno Fernando - 24yo, F-C, 32.36
75 - Dario Saric - 29yo, F-C, 31.94
76 - Montrezl Harrell - 29yo, F-C, 31.62
77 - Udoka Azubuike - 23yo, C-F, 31.2
78 - Moses Brown - 23yo, C, 31.17
79 - Chimezie Metu - 26yo, F-C, 31.16
80 - Orlando Robinson - 22yo, C, 30.91
81 - Zeke Nnaji - 22yo, F-C, 30.1
82 - Jaxson Hayes - 23yo, C-F, 29.33
83 - JaMychal Green - 32yo, F-C, 28.01
84 - Robin Lopez - 35yo, C, 26.86
85 - JaVale McGee - 35yo, C-F, 26.66
86 - Luka Garza - 24yo, C, 24.41
87 - Khem Birch - 30yo, C, 23.42

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Interesting to the Mavs is...
10 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, 67.22, $10.9m
14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, 64.28, $20m
15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, 62.91, $16.9m
27 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, 56.33, $7.7m

IMO, Ayton and Turner are too expensive for a team with 2 max players in Luka/Kyrie.

[ItsGoTime]

Only thing I can see is the weight of missed 3’s being really high. What is your justification for that?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Only thing I can see is the weight of missed 3’s being really high. What is your justification for that?

Sorry.  There were some type-os.  Corrected.

8% -- Paint-Dfg%
19% -- Paint-Missed FGs
6% -- Mid-Dfg%
13% -- Mid-Missed FGs
3% -- 3pt-Dfg%
11% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals

So, looking at that specific weight, I'm putting 43% of the overall weight on # of FGs missed.  Looking at that piece, the 3 ranges break down as follows:
Paint - 44%
Mid - 30%
3pt - 26%

In today's NBA of centers having to switch on defense and guard stretch bigs, I'm happy with this weighting.  What are your thoughts?

[dirkfansince1998]

Really appreciate the effort.
Any reason to have loose balls and charges in it but not deflections? Have you considered to include some of the tracking/synergy numbers for specific scenarios? Pick/roll, Isolation, post up?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Really appreciate the effort.
Any reason to have loose balls and charges in it but not deflections? Have you considered to include some of the tracking/synergy numbers for specific scenarios? Pick/roll, Isolation, post up?

Thanks.  I geek out on this stuff.  Historically I've written statistical models for demand planning/forecasting systems.

Excellent suggestion on deflections.  Do you know where I could get the numbers?

Specific scenarios...  I like it.  It would give the dfg%/shots missed another dimension.  What are your thoughts on weighting it?

[ItsGoTime]

Sorry.  There were some type-os.  Corrected.

8% -- Paint-Dfg%
19% -- Paint-Missed FGs
6% -- Mid-Dfg%
13% -- Mid-Missed FGs
3% -- 3pt-Dfg%
11% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals

So, looking at that specific weight, I'm putting 43% of the overall weight on # of FGs missed.  Looking at that piece, the 3 ranges break down as follows:
Paint - 44%
Mid - 30%
3pt - 26%

In today's NBA of centers having to switch on defense and guard stretch bigs, I'm happy with this weighting.  What are your thoughts?

I like opponent fg% a bit more than you do, but it looks pretty good. Breaking down blocks and steals a bit more might be a decent addition, albeit I haven’t delved into numbers enough to know what can be used. I’m starting to seriously consider paying to get profitx for next season. If the Mavs have a good offseason I probably will.

[dirkfansince1998]

Thanks.  I geek out on this stuff.  Historically I've written statistical models for demand planning/forecasting systems.

Excellent suggestion on deflections.  Do you know where I could get the numbers?

Specific scenarios...  I like it.  It would give the dfg%/shots missed another dimension.  What are your thoughts on weighting it?

NBA.com has tracking data for most of the stuff I suggested. Other options are behind paywalls.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle?dir=D&sort=DEFLECTIONS

I think DFG%/DFGA around the rim is doing a good job when it comes to help defense/rim protection. For a big that is probably still the most important aspect of the game. Followed by pick and roll defense. Unless a team is facing Jokic or Embiid post up defense isn´t nearly as important as it used to be.

[Jym]

OK, I've retooled my defensive model to be position-less, but weight production based upon profiles of what you want out of a position.  Here's what I have for Center.  I'll also do a profile for Center-Forward, Power Forward, Wing, and Guard.

Center Profile:
8% -- Paint-Dfg%
19% -- Paint-Missed FGs
6% -- Mid-Dfg%
13% -- Mid-Missed FGs
3% -- 3pt-Dfg%
11% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals
*Each of the above categories is normalized by a multiplier equal so that the league's best is 100.00
Note: this is position-less.  It rates the player's production in the categories and weights of above.  These are players classified as C, C-F, and F-C.

1 - Anthony Davis - 30yo, F-C, 75.77
2 - Brook Lopez - 35yo, C, 75.09
3 - Joel Embiid - 29yo, C-F, 74.14
4 - Nikola Jokic - 28yo, C, 72.66
5 - Rudy Gobert - 30yo, C, 70.99
6 - Kristaps Porzingis - 27yo, F-C, 69.71
7 - Evan Mobley - 21yo, C, 68.71
8 - Domantas Sabonis - 27yo, F-C, 68.19
9 - Nic Claxton - 24yo, C, 68.17
10 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, 67.22
11 - Jaren Jackson Jr. - 23yo, F-C, 65.37
12 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, 65.22
13 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, 64.64
14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, 64.28
15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, 62.91
16 - Steven Adams - 29yo, C, 62.08
17 - Walker Kessler - 21yo, C, 62.06
18 - Jakob Poeltl - 27yo, C, 60.08
19 - Alperen Sengun - 20yo, C, 59.91
20 - Al Horford - 37yo, C-F, 59.2
21 - Deandre Ayton - 24yo, C, 59.09
22 - Clint Capela - 29yo, C, 58.87
23 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 27yo, C-F, 58.59
24 - Bam Adebayo - 25yo, C-F, 58.09
25 - Julius Randle - 28yo, F-C, 57.23
26 - Wendell Carter Jr. - 24yo, C-F, 57.23
27 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, 56.33
28 - Lauri Markkanen - 26yo, F-C, 56.2
29 - Jonas Valanciunas - 31yo, C, 55.26
30 - Mitchell Robinson - 25yo, C-F, 55.08
31 - Kelly Olynyk - 32yo, F-C, 54.82
32 - Robert Williams III - 25yo, C-F, 53.8
33 - Mason Plumlee - 33yo, F-C, 53.63
34 - Isaiah Stewart - 22yo, F-C, 53.36
35 - Onyeka Okongwu - 22yo, F-C, 53.31
36 - John Collins - 25yo, F-C, 52.73
37 - Jalen Duren - 19yo, C, 52.03
38 - Mark Williams - 21yo, C, 51.79
39 - Daniel Gafford - 24yo, F-C, 51.61
40 - Drew Eubanks - 26yo, F-C, 48.3
41 - Isaiah Hartenstein - 25yo, C-F, 47.83
42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, 45.94
43 - Nick Richards - 25yo, C, 44.4
44 - Santi Aldama - 22yo, F-C, 43.81
45 - Bismack Biyombo - 30yo, C, 43.01
46 - Kevin Love - 34yo, F-C, 42.65
47 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, 42.3
48 - Jalen Smith - 23yo, F-C, 42.22
49 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, 41.78
50 - Dwight Powell - 31yo, F-C, 41.5
51 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, 40.58
52 - Thomas Bryant - 25yo, C-F, 39.89
53 - Moritz Wagner - 26yo, F-C, 39.79
54 - Charles Bassey - 22yo, C-F, 39.57
55 - Mo Bamba - 25yo, C, 39.31
56 - Dean Wade - 26yo, F-C, 38.27
57 - James Wiseman - 22yo, C, 37.72
58 - Chris Boucher - 30yo, F-C, 37.57
59 - Jock Landale - 27yo, C, 37.07
60 - Andre Drummond - 29yo, C, 37.01
61 - Mike Muscala - 31yo, F-C, 36.66
62 - Christian Koloko - 22yo, C, 36.59
63 - Jericho Sims - 24yo, C, 36.05
64 - Damian Jones - 27yo, C, 35.77
65 - Luke Kornet - 27yo, C-F, 35.35
66 - DeAndre Jordan - 34yo, C, 34.62
67 - Sandro Mamukelashvili - 24yo, F-C, 34.56
68 - Kai Jones - 22yo, C-F, 34.46
69 - Dewayne Dedmon - 33yo, C, 33.52
70 - Goga Bitadze - 23yo, C-F, 33.31
71 - Day'Ron Sharpe - 21yo, C, 33.29
72 - Willy Hernangomez - 29yo, C-F, 32.78
73 - Gorgui Dieng - 33yo, C, 32.57
74 - Bruno Fernando - 24yo, F-C, 32.36
75 - Dario Saric - 29yo, F-C, 31.94
76 - Montrezl Harrell - 29yo, F-C, 31.62
77 - Udoka Azubuike - 23yo, C-F, 31.2
78 - Moses Brown - 23yo, C, 31.17
79 - Chimezie Metu - 26yo, F-C, 31.16
80 - Orlando Robinson - 22yo, C, 30.91
81 - Zeke Nnaji - 22yo, F-C, 30.1
82 - Jaxson Hayes - 23yo, C-F, 29.33
83 - JaMychal Green - 32yo, F-C, 28.01
84 - Robin Lopez - 35yo, C, 26.86
85 - JaVale McGee - 35yo, C-F, 26.66
86 - Luka Garza - 24yo, C, 24.41
87 - Khem Birch - 30yo, C, 23.42

Maybe we should have just kept KP

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Maybe we should have just kept KP

Statically, yes.  The more I delve into this, the worse I think Kidd can coach.  Did you know that Luka has a 30.6 dfg% from 3?  That is insane.  Frank as a 26.3, Maxi a 27.5.  Mavs were 7th in 3ptDfg%, yet 28th in paint Dfg%.  As much as we rail on having shut down wings, statistically we already do.  Even Wood's 35.6 is better than the league average of 35.9.  Interior defense is needed.  Powell and McGee are horrid.  Maxi is great on the wing, but is pretty bad on the interior.  Wood is passable at mid and 3pt.  To me the simple answer is to keep Wood and go trade for Allen, Zubac, Nurkic, or Collins.

IMO, we gave up on KP and pushed the panic button.  Had he never been a Mav, I'd be saying he should be our #1 target.  Completely botched.

[Jym]

Statically, yes.  The more I delve into this, the worse I think Kidd can coach.  Did you know that Luka has a 30.6 dfg% from 3?  That is insane.  Frank as a 26.3, Maxi a 27.5.  Mavs were 7th in 3ptDfg%, yet 28th in paint Dfg%.  As much as we rail on having shut down wings, statistically we already do.  Even Wood's 35.6 is better than the league average of 35.9.  Interior defense is needed.  Powell and McGee are horrid.  Maxi is great on the wing, but is pretty bad on the interior.  Wood is passable at mid and 3pt.  To me the simple answer is to keep Wood and go trade for Allen, Zubac, Nurkic, or Collins.

IMO, we gave up on KP and pushed the panic button.  Had he never been a Mav, I'd be saying he should be our #1 target.  Completely botched.

From a personality/fit perspective I get moving on from KP but I swear people are still in such denial about how horrible that deal was
In no scenario do you take on that Bertans deal without a major asset attached

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

NBA.com has tracking data for most of the stuff I suggested. Other options are behind paywalls.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle?dir=D&sort=DEFLECTIONS

I think DFG%/DFGA around the rim is doing a good job when it comes to help defense/rim protection. For a big that is probably still the most important aspect of the game. Followed by pick and roll defense. Unless a team is facing Jokic or Embiid post up defense isn´t nearly as important as it used to be.

Do you think the paint/mid/3pt categories are capturing that, or should these scenarios be specifically factored in?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

From a personality/fit perspective I get moving on from KP but I swear people are still in such denial about how horrible that deal was
In no scenario do you take on that Bertans deal without a major asset attached

I understand he was frustrating.  The hopes and assets given up were huge.  A buddy of mine called KP/Luka the modern day Malone/Stockton.  I'd much rather KP at $37m than Ayton at $34.7m, tho.  Statistically I put him at 6th in defense.  I think you could argue his being that high, but he's certainly top 15.  Couple that with his offense, we screwed up.

About the trade...  Din was a great fit for what we needed as a combo/3rd guard.  Bertans has just made the end of the bench high real estate.  Overall, horrid trade.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

OK, added deflections per dirkfansince1998's suggestion.

Center Profile:
7% -- Paint-Dfg%
18% -- Paint-Missed FGs
5% -- Mid-Dfg%
12% -- Mid-Missed FGs
2% -- 3pt-Dfg%
10% -- 3pt-Missed FGs
6% -- Deflections
6% -- Defensive Loose Balls Gained
2% -- Charges Drawn
7% -- Defensive Box-outs Resulting in Team RB
17% -- Defensive Rebounds
6% -- Blocks
2% -- Steals

1 - Anthony Davis - 30yo, F-C, $40.6m, 74.49
2 - Nikola Jokic - 28yo, C, $46.55m, 73.07
3 - Joel Embiid - 29yo, C-F, $46.9m, 71.87
4 - Brook Lopez - 35yo, C, $0m, 71.48
5 - Rudy Gobert - 30yo, C, $41m, 68.6
6 - Nic Claxton - 24yo, C, $9.63m, 67.22
7 - Evan Mobley - 21yo, C, $8.88m, 66.92
8 - Kristaps Porzingis - 27yo, F-C, $36.02m, 66.88
9 - Domantas Sabonis - 27yo, F-C, $22m, 66.59
10 - Jaren Jackson Jr. - 23yo, F-C, $27.1m, 64.11
11 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, $10.93m, 63.78
12 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, $0m, 63.77
13 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, $20.98m, 62.94
14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, $20m, 62.26
15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, $16.88m, 61.95
16 - Steven Adams - 29yo, C, $12.6m, 60.24
17 - Jakob Poeltl - 27yo, C, $0m, 59.3
18 - Walker Kessler - 21yo, C, $2.83m, 59.08
19 - Alperen Sengun - 20yo, C, $3.54m, 58.67
20 - Bam Adebayo - 25yo, C-F, $32.6m, 57.07
21 - Deandre Ayton - 24yo, C, $32.46m, 56.75
22 - Clint Capela - 29yo, C, $20.62m, 56.71
23 - Al Horford - 37yo, C-F, $10m, 56.67
24 - Karl-Anthony Towns - 27yo, C-F, $36.02m, 56.25
25 - Julius Randle - 28yo, F-C, $25.66m, 55.33
26 - Wendell Carter Jr. - 24yo, C-F, $13.05m, 55.02
27 - Lauri Markkanen - 26yo, F-C, $17.26m, 54.06
28 - Mitchell Robinson - 25yo, C-F, $15.68m, 54.04
29 - Kelly Olynyk - 32yo, F-C, $12.2m, 53.73
30 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, $7.7m, 53.71
31 - Jonas Valanciunas - 31yo, C, $15.44m, 52.61
32 - Mason Plumlee - 33yo, F-C, $0m, 52.17
33 - Robert Williams III - 25yo, C-F, $11.57m, 51.28
34 - Onyeka Okongwu - 22yo, F-C, $8.11m, 51.21
35 - Isaiah Stewart - 22yo, F-C, $5.27m, 50.49
36 - John Collins - 25yo, F-C, $25.34m, 50.08
37 - Mark Williams - 21yo, C, $3.91m, 49.82
38 - Jalen Duren - 19yo, C, $4.33m, 49.77
39 - Daniel Gafford - 24yo, F-C, $12.4m, 49.43
40 - Drew Eubanks - 26yo, F-C, $0m, 46.4
41 - Isaiah Hartenstein - 25yo, C-F, $9.25m, 46.3
42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 44.28
43 - Nick Richards - 25yo, C, $5m, 41.91
44 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, $10.38m, 41.56
45 - Santi Aldama - 22yo, F-C, $2.19m, 41.52
46 - Bismack Biyombo - 30yo, C, $0m, 40.7
47 - Kevin Love - 34yo, F-C, $0m, 40.54
48 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, $0m, 40.16
49 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, $2.2m, 40
50 - Dwight Powell - 31yo, F-C, $0m, 39.78
51 - Jalen Smith - 23yo, F-C, $5.04m, 39.35
52 - Moritz Wagner - 26yo, F-C, $0m, 38.5
53 - Charles Bassey - 22yo, C-F, $2.6m, 37.65
54 - Thomas Bryant - 25yo, C-F, $0m, 37.51
55 - Mo Bamba - 25yo, C, $10.3m, 36.71
56 - Dean Wade - 26yo, F-C, $5.71m, 36.62
57 - Chris Boucher - 30yo, F-C, $11.75m, 35.83
58 - Andre Drummond - 29yo, C, $3.36m, 35.83
59 - James Wiseman - 22yo, C, $12.12m, 35.2
60 - Jock Landale - 27yo, C, $0m, 34.75
61 - Christian Koloko - 22yo, C, $1.72m, 34.34
62 - Mike Muscala - 31yo, F-C, $3.5m, 34.14
63 - Jericho Sims - 24yo, C, $1.93m, 33.44
64 - Damian Jones - 27yo, C, $2.59m, 32.9
65 - Luke Kornet - 27yo, C-F, $2.41m, 32.51
66 - DeAndre Jordan - 34yo, C, $0m, 32.45
67 - Kai Jones - 22yo, C-F, $3.05m, 32.43
68 - Sandro Mamukelashvili - 24yo, F-C, $0m, 32.35
69 - Goga Bitadze - 23yo, C-F, $2.07m, 31.74
70 - Willy Hernangomez - 29yo, C-F, $2.56m, 31.35
71 - Day'Ron Sharpe - 21yo, C, $2.21m, 31.09
72 - Dewayne Dedmon - 33yo, C, $2.75m, 31.02
73 - Gorgui Dieng - 33yo, C, $0m, 30.81
74 - Dario Saric - 29yo, F-C, $0m, 30.07
75 - Bruno Fernando - 24yo, F-C, $2.58m, 29.99
76 - Montrezl Harrell - 29yo, F-C, $2.76m, 29.53
77 - Orlando Robinson - 22yo, C, $1.76m, 29.21
78 - Chimezie Metu - 26yo, F-C, $0m, 29.16
79 - Udoka Azubuike - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 28.52
80 - Moses Brown - 23yo, C, $0m, 28.29
81 - Zeke Nnaji - 22yo, F-C, $4.31m, 27.9
82 - Jaxson Hayes - 23yo, C-F, $9.17m, 27.37
83 - Alex Len - 29yo, C, $0m, 27.25
84 - JaMychal Green - 32yo, F-C, $0m, 26.33
85 - JaVale McGee - 35yo, C-F, $5.73m, 24.69
86 - Robin Lopez - 35yo, C, $0m, 24.14
87 - Nathan Knight - 25yo, F-C, $2m, 23.48
88 - Luka Garza - 24yo, C, $1.76m, 22.18
89 - Frank Kaminsky - 30yo, F-C, $0m, 21.21
90 - Khem Birch - 30yo, C, $6.99m, 21.19
91 - Boban Marjanovic - 34yo, C, $0m, 16.46

[ItsGoTime]

So somewhere around 55ish is a good starting quality C defender?

Edit: maybe between 55 and 60?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Given two max contracts in Luka/Kyrie, IMO we can't go over ~$20m for a starting C, ~$10m for the backup.  Sorry, Ayton, we don't want to be in the exact same position PHX is in.

11 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, $10.93m, 63.78
1st Choice.  Exactly what we need.  His age and low wage should make him our prime target.

12 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, $0m, 63.77
Not the top choice, but dude continues with good defense and offense.  Worth a 2yr deal ~$15m/yr.

13 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, $20.98m, 62.94
OK, I've been sold on Turner's being a great fit here.  His defensive numbers are hidden in categories like deflections and boxouts.  His salary is inline.

14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, $20m, 62.26
Nice contract.  Young.  Precisely what we need.

15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, $16.88m, 61.95
Dude gets roasted because he didn't live up to expectations, but a nice player with a decent contract.

30 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, $7.7m, 53.71
With Wimby arriving, I wonder if they'd rather trade Zach for a better supporting position, like a bigger and more traditional C.  Zach is more of a PF, but I think he could start for us at PF.

42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 44.28
Young.  OK defensive numbers.  Great offensive talent.  He's my choice for backup/heir apparent C.  $12m/yr is fair to me.

44 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, $10.38m, 41.56
Dude is a perfect backup for us if he could stay healthy.  At 30yo, it'll probably only get worse.

48 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, $0m, 40.16
Nice choice for backup PF.  Still young.  Good skills,

49 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, $2.2m, 40
Dude has more freakish athleticism that his pa.  Has the defensive skillset to become a great defender, especially help side.

---

So somewhere around 55ish is a good starting quality C defender?

Edit: maybe between 55 and 60?

I'd say Mo Bamba at 55 is the cutoff line for a starter in the league.  For us?  I'd say Bol Bol at 49.

[Jym]

Given two max contracts in Luka/Kyrie, IMO we can't go over ~$20m for a starting C, ~$10m for the backup.  Sorry, Ayton, we don't want to be in the exact same position PHX is in.

11 - Ivica Zubac - 26yo, C, $10.93m, 63.78
1st Choice.  Exactly what we need.  His age and low wage should make him our prime target.

12 - Nikola Vucevic - 32yo, C, $0m, 63.77
Not the top choice, but dude continues with good defense and offense.  Worth a 2yr deal ~$15m/yr.

13 - Myles Turner - 27yo, C-F, $20.98m, 62.94
OK, I've been sold on Turner's being a great fit here.  His defensive numbers are hidden in categories like deflections and boxouts.  His salary is inline.

14 - Jarrett Allen - 25yo, C, $20m, 62.26
Nice contract.  Young.  Precisely what we need.

15 - Jusuf Nurkic - 28yo, C, $16.88m, 61.95
Dude gets roasted because he didn't live up to expectations, but a nice player with a decent contract.

30 - Zach Collins - 25yo, F-C, $7.7m, 53.71
With Wimby arriving, I wonder if they'd rather trade Zach for a better supporting position, like a bigger and more traditional C.  Zach is more of a PF, but I think he could start for us at PF.

42 - Naz Reid - 23yo, C-F, $0m, 44.28
Young.  OK defensive numbers.  Great offensive talent.  He's my choice for backup/heir apparent C.  $12m/yr is fair to me.

44 - Larry Nance Jr. - 30yo, F-C, $10.38m, 41.56
Dude is a perfect backup for us if he could stay healthy.  At 30yo, it'll probably only get worse.

48 - Jalen McDaniels - 25yo, F-C, $0m, 40.16
Nice choice for backup PF.  Still young.  Good skills,

49 - Bol Bol - 23yo, C-F, $2.2m, 40
Dude has more freakish athleticism that his pa.  Has the defensive skillset to become a great defender, especially help side.

---

I'd say Mo Bamba at 55 is the cutoff line for a starter in the league.  For us?  I'd say Bol Bol at 49.

Yeah I feel like Turner is just about the only correct answer at the moment if he's available
Then we still need to figure out SF and PF. Not an easy road. Wish Josh Green could be the answer at SF but he just seems too light and short to be the switcher we need

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Yeah I feel like Turner is just about the only correct answer at the moment if he's available
Then we still need to figure out SF and PF. Not an easy road. Wish Josh Green could be the answer at SF but he just seems too light and short to be the switcher we need

Why is Turner the "only" correct answer?  He's the most expensive of the options I listed.

[Jym]

Why is Turner the "only" correct answer?  He's the most expensive of the options I listed.

The others either haven't shown an ability to play 30+ mpg or I just don't see any realistic way of getting them

[ItsGoTime]

I'd say Mo Bamba at 55 is the cutoff line for a starter in the league.  For us?  I'd say Bol Bol at 49.

Oh, sorry I wasn’t clear, I was talking about the rating, not the ranking. I don’t think you should go below the ranking of 30 (rating of 53.71) for a starter, do you (and I’m even proposing that it should be higher than that ranking for a team with championship aspirations)? If we have the 50th defensive ranked C in the league as our starter, we couldn’t possibly have high hopes, right?