Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Sure, but not really. Because, moves that make the roster "better" for some coaches, running some systems, don't fit into the plans of other coaches, running different systems. You really want THE guy who's going to be implementing the plan, longterm, to be in the mix on those decisions. Otherwise, you're spending resources for things you potentially might not want or need. 

It's basic, common sense.

It's not basic, common sense; it's your opinion.

It is kinda a silly assertion.  The NBA is a league of talent, not system.  Sure, you don't want to amass talent leading to ill-fitting parts like the Net's with KD, Harden, and Kyrie.  Ill-fitting or perfect fitting is the same for every coach in the NBA.  Since Phil with the triangle offense (25 years ago), I can't think of a coach who didn't scheme a system around the talent on the roster.  NBA coaches have a rough "system", but that is tweaked given the talent on the roster.  Think if GS got another star that wasn't a swap for the same position they gave up, Kerr wouldn't tweak his system?  Of course he would.

There's not an NBA coach who wouldn't want Kuzma over THJ.  I'm glad we got PJ for G.Williams instead of Kuzma, but if we have the opportunity to now get Kuzma in the offseason, you do that.  A playoffs 8 man rotation of Luka, Kyrie, Kuzma, PJ, Gafford, Lively, Green, DJJ, Green/Exum is championship talent and fit.

To your point, yes, Kidd must go.  I think I've been the most critical on this board re: Kidd.  Dude has been run out of every spot he's been HC.  He's a toxic alcoholic.  Waiting on the inevitable ousting of Kidd, however, to build the best roster is non sequitur.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I’m fine with the big off-season addition being incorporating Omax into the rotation taking Maxi/DJJ minutes. Have to find out what we have in him. Same with Jaden Hardy. 

Obviously, if something falls into our lap and we can upgrade THJ we should do it. But I wouldn’t move him just to move him. Decent pick and expiring guy? Sure! Better fitting player, absolutely. But I wouldn’t give him away. 

I’m pretty vocal in my belief that Kidd is NOT the guy, but I don’t see much that isn’t fixable for a new coach. Pretty sure we can flip Gafford if we need to. Young, plays hard, fair contract. What we need to ascertain for certain by this time next year is whether Omax looks like a future starter (I think he is) and then whether Hardy has continued to develop enough to make him a keeper (and future THJ replacement.) Then we would be essentially saving assets for our next Kyrie-esque bucket getter to take pressure off of Luka. I personally love the way everything is set up going forward. Yes I wish we had a bevy of picks and a new coach. But aside from that, the roster build and talent scouting is light years better than before.

Completely agree.

OMax should be playing every Legends game.  It's silly to have him on the roster and let him watch, getting garbage minutes every fourth game.  I love his raw talent, but he plays 20mph slower than an NBA starter.  The game is way too fast for him right now.  And he needs a shot.  The only way to fix that is to play, not watch.

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[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Totally.

And to be fair, if Kidd is the guy longterm, then sure, build the team according to his vision. It's only my opinion, but after giving him what I considered to be a clean slate this season, I just don't like what he's doing, sorry. I don't know if the Mavs decision makers are even stopping to consider whether coaching is an issue right now, obviously, but man, I sure would be if I were in their place. 

T0 the current MBT's credit, the team is athletic in a way that Donnie/Carlise never seemed to value much. I like that part. I just don't like anything about what they're doing defensively (unless they're playing Kleber and Washington together) and I CAN'T STAND the approach to offensive spacing and ball movement. I just don't understand a decision to play any other way than what gives Luka and Kyrie the most possible space to operate.

Question, y'all... What is Kidd's system? Do you really think he has a vision and scheme, or just coaches the talent he's given? IMO, he's the latter.

How Kidd handled Kyrie and fitting him with Luka last year is coaching malpractice.  Do you really think the problem is Kyrie didn't fit his system, or that he coaches what he has and is 
s-l-o-w to scheme?

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Question, y'all... What is Kidd's system? Do you really think he has a vision and scheme, or just coaches the talent he's given? IMO, he's the latter.

How Kidd handled Kyrie and fitting him with Luka last year is coaching malpractice.  Do you really think the problem is Kyrie didn't fit his system, or that he coaches what he has and is 
s-l-o-w to scheme?

Quick answer, on offense, is we are predictable. The argument for Kidd’s “system” being: Luka and Kyrie taking turns ISO ball is better than almost any offensive scheme you could dream up. There is some validity to that. I would wait to withhold judgment fully until after these guys have a full training camp etc. I would like to see more complicated actions wherein PJ flash or post is a decoy for the intended back door action. The kind of stuff Spoelstra’s teams seem to excel at. But that does take time, and buy in and discipline from players. 

Honestly, OkC has a great young talent base. But the most impressive thing to me is the discipline Daigneault has installed in such a young inexperienced group. I’m not sure right now they have another gear to ramp up to though, whereas the Mavs do. Miami famously ramps up to playoff ball. Talking about this year btw.

[dirkfansince1998]

Question, y'all... What is Kidd's system? Do you really think he has a vision and scheme, or just coaches the talent he's given? IMO, he's the latter.

How Kidd handled Kyrie and fitting him with Luka last year is coaching malpractice.  Do you really think the problem is Kyrie didn't fit his system, or that he coaches what he has and is 
s-l-o-w to scheme?

On defense it is pretty clear that he is copying the 2020 Lakers. With some added elements from his stints with the Nets/Bucks. Drop defense against middle pick and roll. Ice against side line pick and roll. Pre rotations to overload the strong side. Leaving the worst shooter on the floor open.

On offense it is all about Luka&Kyrie. Pick and roll and isos. More often than not horns sets or spain pick and roll. Either creating out of the pick and roll or just to force mismatches. Big difference compared to the last few seasons is the increased pace.

Mavs made roster moves to bring in guys that fit into Kidd's system. Kleber and Powell are switchable and mobile bigs. Playing drop defense with them should be a crime.  Now the Mavs have two big rim protectors (Gafford, Lively) that are better fits in a drop defense scheme.
On offense it is a similar change. More rim pressure from athletic bings and wings. PJ and DJJ offer more inside scoring than Maxi, DFS or Grant. Legit lob targets with the ability to attack close outs. But it comes at a cost. Spacing isn't as good. Mavs starting five features three below average shooters next to Luka and Kyrie.

I guess the hope is that the new changes make the Mavs more resilient in playoff/play-in scenarios. Overall the offense might be slightly worse but they can win games without winning the 3-point battle. Drop defense doesn't have the same ceiling as a well executed switch scheme but for a team that tends to blow rotations/switches it reduces the amount of breakdowns. Not as much off ball movement/awareness needed. Also easier to hide Doncic or Irving on the weak side.

[Jakeospikez]

Think it's clear Kidd's/Sweeney's system prefers mobile switchable bigs over drop coverage ones. I disagree on the spacing with a rim roller though, if you had to give up one or the other, it looks like an elite vertical spacer/rim roller is more important than a big that is average at shooting 3s and camps on a 3 point line somewhere. Maxi offers pretty much no vertical spacing or rim rolling in his current condition and the offense is not looking good with him. Maxi is Grant Williams level on drives and can only capitalize if the lane is completely vacated with someone on the other team falling asleep. Lively/Gafford are elite vertical spacers and DJJ has slashing and a vertical game as well.
Maybe OMax (if you ever think the PJ trade is bad you need to consider him still being on the roster as part of the deal) can save the day in a season or 2 with some more versatile lineups instead of Maxi.

[dirkfansince1998]

Think it's clear Kidd's/Sweeney's system prefers mobile switchable bigs over drop coverage ones. I disagree on the spacing with a rim roller though, if you had to give up one or the other, it looks like an elite vertical spacer/rim roller is more important than a big that is average at shooting 3s and camps on a 3 point line somewhere. Maxi offers pretty much no vertical spacing or rim rolling in his current condition and the offense is not looking good with him. Maxi is Grant Williams level on drives and can only capitalize if the lane is completely vacated with someone on the other team falling asleep. Lively/Gafford are elite vertical spacers and DJJ has slashing and a vertical game as well.
Maybe OMax (if you ever think the PJ trade is bad you need to consider him still being on the roster as part of the deal) can save the day in a season or 2 with some more versatile lineups instead of Maxi.

Turn off the sound. Ignore the screaming. Just look at the positioning of the bigs in the pick and roll. That's on Kidd. What the Mavs have been doing since he arrived. Deep drop coverage. Now with bigger bodies instead of Powell/Kleber. Mavs bigs (except for Gafford) have above average mobility but the Mavs aren't taking advantage of it.

[Knutsen]

Marcus Morris has signed a 10-day-contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers. Interesting that he wasn’t picked up earlier and didn’t get a real deal. Are we sure we couldn’t use him as an upgrade to his brother and an alternative to the struggling Kleber?

[mvossman]

He's already started half the games on a championship team.

THJ upgrade?  He shoots 1/5 fewer 3's, twice the rebounds, twice the assists, over 5% better fg%, and is a much better defender.  There is no comparison between the two players.  Kuzma is a PF/SF.  THJ is a SG/SF.  We need a PF/SF, as a starter.

Luka, Exum, Hardy
Kyrie, Green (6th man)
Kuzma, DJJ. OMax
PJ, Maxi
Gafford, Lively

Only weakness is backup PF

I know there is not much point in arguing this as the Kuz train has passed (thank god) but there is so much wrong with this post.

He did not start half the games for a championship team.  He started 9 games.  In that playoffs he didn't start a single game, played a little over 20 minutes a game with inefficient chucking and had the worst on/off on the team.  I have no idea why folks use that playoff run as a positive for him.  Grant Williams did more in the Celtics finals run.

Your comparison with Tim is flawed.  Tim has the better true shooting 4 of the last 5 years (every healthy season).  Kuz has more assists, but a much worse assist to turnover ratio and he still manages to put up more shots.  I don't think Kuz is a much better defender than anyone.  Folks get frustrated with Timmy because he takes bad shots and plays bad defense.  It will be even more annoying with Kuz because he will do it from the starting lineup after we paid a lot more for him.  

Why do we need another PF/SF as a starter when we already have PJ and (defensively) Luka?  What we need is a point of attack defender.  Thats why we have been rotating Green/DJJ/Exum.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Your "system" coaches are assistants, retired, and/or dead. Even in their hay day, they were questioned greatly. There's a famous story about Nellie meeting with Ewing for the first time as his coach telling Ewing he needed to pass a lot more. Same thing before that with Nellie and Webber. Dantoni won how many championships? Nellie? Phil's last championship was how long ago?

Today's successful NBA coaches do not get in the way of talent; they scheme to maximize that talent. Think Malone's system was a point center prior to coaching Jokic?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I know there is not much point in arguing this as the Kuz train has passed (thank god) but there is so much wrong with this post.

He did not start half the games for a championship team.  He started 9 games.  In that playoffs he didn't start a single game, played a little over 20 minutes a game with inefficient chucking and had the worst on/off on the team.  I have no idea why folks use that playoff run as a positive for him.  Grant Williams did more in the Celtics finals run.

Your comparison with Tim is flawed.  Tim has the better true shooting 4 of the last 5 years (every healthy season).  Kuz has more assists, but a much worse assist to turnover ratio and he still manages to put up more shots.  I don't think Kuz is a much better defender than anyone.  Folks get frustrated with Timmy because he takes bad shots and plays bad defense.  It will be even more annoying with Kuz because he will do it from the starting lineup after we paid a lot more for him.  

Why do we need another PF/SF as a starter when we already have PJ and (defensively) Luka?  What we need is a point of attack defender.  Thats why we have been rotating Green/DJJ/Exum.

My point is there is no comparison between THJ and Kuzma.  They're completely different players.

[mvossman]

My point is there is no comparison between THJ and Kuzma.  They're completely different players.

They are different players but they both are suited to the same role (6th man).

[MAVS-SLO]

After a good deadline day when we finally managed to get a balance in the roster without losing something significant, i was a looking also in the offseason ahead of us.



In my opinion perfect trade partners can again be Brooklyn Nets. They are (again) in very bad series and their probably biggest dissapointment are 2 former suns players, Bridges and Johnson.

Also a lot of Nets fans are calling them to trade them, so i was thinking if 2 FRP + expiring contracts might be enough to get him here. Or 1 FRP for Johnson.

Lively - Gafford
PJ - DJJ - Omax
? - Green
Luka - Hardy
Kyrie - Exum

If we can add Bridges or Cam Johnson there for THJ and Maxi expiring alongside with FRP's that's finally a team you can call a contender.

[BigDirk41]

After a good deadline day when we finally managed to get a balance in the roster without losing something significant, i was a looking also in the offseason ahead of us.



In my opinion perfect trade partners can again be Brooklyn Nets. They are (again) in very bad series and their probably biggest dissapointment are 2 former suns players, Bridges and Johnson.

Also a lot of Nets fans are calling them to trade them, so i was thinking if 2 FRP + expiring contracts might be enough to get him here. Or 1 FRP for Johnson.

Lively - Gafford
PJ - DJJ - Omax
? - Green
Luka - Hardy
Kyrie - Exum

If we can add Bridges or Cam Johnson there for THJ and Maxi expiring alongside with FRP's that's finally a team you can call a contender.

Mikal Bridges is about as untouchable as anyone in the league. Last year, it was reported they turned down a offer of 4 first round picks for him. He's not available. Cam Johnson is probably attainable, but I doubt it would be anything we can afford with the season he's had. Also those 2 and Claxton are their only bright spots right now. I don't understand why their fans would want to trade them.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I know there is not much point in arguing this as the Kuz train has passed (thank god) but there is so much wrong with this post.

He did not start half the games for a championship team.  He started 9 games.  In that playoffs he didn't start a single game, played a little over 20 minutes a game with inefficient chucking and had the worst on/off on the team.  I have no idea why folks use that playoff run as a positive for him.  Grant Williams did more in the Celtics finals run.

Your comparison with Tim is flawed.  Tim has the better true shooting 4 of the last 5 years (every healthy season).  Kuz has more assists, but a much worse assist to turnover ratio and he still manages to put up more shots.  I don't think Kuz is a much better defender than anyone.  Folks get frustrated with Timmy because he takes bad shots and plays bad defense.  It will be even more annoying with Kuz because he will do it from the starting lineup after we paid a lot more for him.  

Why do we need another PF/SF as a starter when we already have PJ and (defensively) Luka?  What we need is a point of attack defender.  Thats why we have been rotating Green/DJJ/Exum.

Kuzma starting...  ya, my bad.  I looked at the year after the championship team.

My point with a comparison of THJ and Kuzma is there is no comparison.  The players are too different.  Yes, potentially Kuzma would be the sixth man.  I look at a championship level team (the talent as it is right now) in regards to an 8-man rotation.  

I'm not in love with Kuzma.  I do think we need a 3rd scorer who can be called upon to give you 20+pts on any given night.  If that's a THJ replacement, so be it.  I think too much bad shot selection and poor defense comes with THJ, with the exception of his taking charges, which is outstanding.

POA defender...  I thought that was Green.  Any time I mentioned moving Green for a better fitting part I was told we can't lose our POA defender (?).  Green is a SG by all measures.  This is why I'm in love Tari Eason.  We need an OG starter kit.  Mikal would be fantastic, but as others have stated he's probably untouchable.  Tari has yet started a game and is buried behind Brooks, Tate, Thompson, and Whitmore.

[SwisherPrice]

Hopefully Green's injury will make them realize that he's not as valuable as they think and they will finally be willing to trade him - either as part of package for an upgrade or worst-case, a similar player on an expiring contract. DJJ is just a better player for the role that they require both of them and sending Green out might give them more ability to re-sign DJJ. Green might be the better shooter but DJJ has the size and length to be more effective as an all-around player. That's the type of role player/wing that this team requires.

Green is not a bad player by any means but he just isn't as good of a fit here in that role. You saw what he was able to do when he had more opportunities due to injuries prior to the trade deadline. But after the trades, he fell behind PJ in the offensive pecking order (already behind THJ too) so at best, he would be 5th or lower in the rotation in terms of shots. Green will be much better on a different team if he is more involved on offense and playing more SG...that's why other teams know it too and have been interested in him during the past 2 deadlines. He will probably have a second-straight season shooting close to 50% overall and 40% on threes. The Mavs have to sell high!

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Hopefully Green's injury will make them realize that he's not as valuable as they think and they will finally be willing to trade him - either as part of package for an upgrade or worst-case, a similar player on an expiring contract. DJJ is just a better player for the role that they require both of them and sending Green out might give them more ability to re-sign DJJ. Green might be the better shooter but DJJ has the size and length to be more effective as an all-around player. That's the type of role player/wing that this team requires.

Green is not a bad player by any means but he just isn't as good of a fit here in that role. You saw what he was able to do when he had more opportunities due to injuries prior to the trade deadline. But after the trades, he fell behind PJ in the offensive pecking order (already behind THJ too) so at best, he would be 5th or lower in the rotation in terms of shots. Green will be much better on a different team if he is more involved on offense and playing more SG...that's why other teams know it too and have been interested in him during the past 2 deadlines. He will probably have a second-straight season shooting close to 50% overall and 40% on threes. The Mavs have to sell high!

I've been saying this for 2 years.  I'd love an offseason trade centered around Green for Eason.  Houston has only one SG on the roster.  They are like 6 deep in SF/PF.

[SleepingHero]

Eason is a great idea.

I was reluctant earlier this season because I was so desperate for a big man and a dude with 2 way potential. Now that we got PJ and Gafford, I can definitely see the appeal for Eason.

I was listening to a Rusillo podcast with Bill Simmons and he mentioned Eason was a dude who just did all the right things on the court and was a winner. It grabbed my attention and funnily enough I thought of your previous posts about him earlier this season.

My dream trade though if we wanted to aim a little bit higher would also be for Cam Johnson. Not only does he bring the size we've been after these last 2 years as he's 6'8, he is a bonafide shooter as well. I can easily see him step into that Maxi role.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Eason is a great idea.

I was reluctant earlier this season because I was so desperate for a big man and a dude with 2 way potential. Now that we got PJ and Gafford, I can definitely see the appeal for Eason.

I was listening to a Rusillo podcast with Bill Simmons and he mentioned Eason was a dude who just did all the right things on the court and was a winner. It grabbed my attention and funnily enough I thought of your previous posts about him earlier this season. 

My dream trade though if we wanted to aim a little bit higher would also be for Cam Johnson. Not only does he bring the size we've been after these last 2 years as he's 6'8, he is a bonafide shooter as well. I can easily see him step into that Maxi role.

I feel the Nets will build around a nucleus of C.Thomas, M.Bridges, C.Johnson, and Claxton.  Otherwise, C.Johnson would be amazing to have.

When HOU drafted Whitmore and Thompson, I knew Eason is just a trade asset for them.  I hate to lose Green and he is a base year player next season (making it SO tough to trade him), but I wonder if they'd bite at Hardy?  VanVleet, Green, and A.Holiday are the only guards on their roster.  Hardy fits their timeline.

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Something like:
DAL: Eason, *backupPF
HOU: Hardy
3rd Team: THJ

Luka, Exum
Kyrie, Green
Eason, DJJ
PJ, *backupPF
Gafford, Lively

With this you have 4 POA defenders in Exum, Green, Eason, and DJJ.  At least 3 defensive stud bigs.  Offensively I think Eason will become an 18-20pt player, especially if his outside shot keeps improving.  You'd have Eason, PJ, and Lively all as your next tier scorers after Luka/Kyrie.  Eventually OMax replaces DJJ.

[Chicagojk]

I think their is a decent change the Nets trade Mikal this offseason. They are stuck in no where land. They may decide to wait out until next free agency when Donovan Mitchell is free. That is a tough wait though. I think eventually Mikal is moved.

I would really like Cam Johnson. Just not sure the Nets will want to help us as they have a future unprotected first from us. I would guess he would have several suitors too.

I don't see Eason happening. DFS is possible, but I am not sure if I would be willing to pay the asking price.

Not a question for now, but this offseason how do we make this team as on of the top 4 in the west for the next 3-4 years? Those teams are all good...and mostly young. You also have some up and coming teams. Injuries factor in, but I think you want to be positioned closer to the top rather than battling out for the play in every year. The Nuggets are the perfect example. They can get a way with their B game on most nights. When they really want it or in the playoffs, you know Jokic will get close to 40 and a triple double. How can Dallas get there without relying on a A Luka and Kyrie game every night?