Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[SleepingHero]

I look forward to the THJ apology thread during the playoffs.  That should be a very busy thread.

I don't think it's ever been a question about THJ's ability to shoot the ball. He all but carried the entire Mavs sans Luka in the Clippers series in 2021.

But it's his inconsistency that drives us mad paired with lackluster defensive effort that can be targeted in the playoffs.

I have no doubts that THJ can single handedly win a playoff game, which is absurd for a role player being able to do that. But he can just as easily lose several playoff games. Hence the reason why MANY THJ haters are motivated to move off of him.

I hope THJ becomes a lights out shooter this year and helps the Mavs to a 2024 chip, I really do.

[BigDirk41]

I don't think it's ever been a question about THJ's ability to shoot the ball. He all but carried the entire Mavs sans Luka in the Clippers series in 2021.

But it's his inconsistency that drives us mad paired with lackluster defensive effort that can be targeted in the playoffs.

I have no doubts that THJ can single handedly win a playoff game, which is absurd for a role player being able to do that. But he can just as easily lose several playoff games. Hence the reason why MANY THJ haters are motivated to move off of him.

I hope THJ becomes a lights out shooter this year and helps the Mavs to a 2024 chip, I really do.

Hardy is almost ready to assume his role. I hope that happens sooner than later and I think it absolutely happens next season. THJ is a great guy, teammate, person, and locker room guy, but I don't see him has a playoff rotation player on a championship team. When he's off, he prevents winning. When he's on, he goes scorched earth. Too extreme for my taste.

[surfpuckmd]

A third best player on this team doesn't have to be an offensive star, so not really what we need anyway.

While I'd be fine not making any major moves in the off season, if PJ in particular works out well, I legit think we are one high level defensive wing away from fighting for the 1 seed the following season and one of the clear favorites for the chip. IMO the only player on our roster with the attributes that really fits the ideal wing partner for PJ in the starting unit on a true contender is probably Omax (not saying others couldn't be good starters in that position), and dude is minimum 2 years away IMO, and that's assuming he puts it together, which is never a guarantee.

I'm happy to watch guys develop too, but if you are genuinely at a stage where you might be just 1 piece away, I think the temptation is far too great, and I'd be fine if they pulled the trigger if a guy with the right skillset became available. Given the position though, and corresponding value across the league, that type of player is likely not going to be particularly cheap. Like what would Herb Jones cost? Probably a lot, but that style and level of player could be the final piece for contention, and if the Mavs believe he is, I don't see how you don't pull the trigger even if you end up maybe overpaying for it.

I basically agree except we have Dereck Lively who is our 3rd-best player.  He might even be better than Kyrie in a couple of years.  We'll be targeting a 4th-best player if anything at all.  

Your point is valid but my point is that the rest of this season isn't enough time to determine whether our young guys-  PJ, Hardy, Green and OMax are ready to be solid playoff rotation players.  We should give it a year.  Then, at the next trade deadline, we can see what's available and what we can afford.  Roster stability should be prioritized until then.  

Also, I'm a Pelicans fan as well.  Herb Jones won't be traded unless it's in a package for a superstar.  He's the only player in their starting 5 who is good at defense.  Brandon Ingram is more likely to be traded than Herb Jones.  =

[surfpuckmd]

I don't think it's ever been a question about THJ's ability to shoot the ball. He all but carried the entire Mavs sans Luka in the Clippers series in 2021.

But it's his inconsistency that drives us mad paired with lackluster defensive effort that can be targeted in the playoffs.

I have no doubts that THJ can single handedly win a playoff game, which is absurd for a role player being able to do that. But he can just as easily lose several playoff games. Hence the reason why MANY THJ haters are motivated to move off of him.

I hope THJ becomes a lights out shooter this year and helps the Mavs to a 2024 chip, I really do.

I agree.  I think this is true of every one-dimensional 3-point specialist.  I do think at least the Clippers and Nuggets are still probably more talented overall than we are even after the trades.  I also think we'll need to shoot better from 3 against either of those teams to win a playoff series against them.  THJ's performance I think would likely be the key to taking out either of those teams.

Truthfully, though, I'm just making conversation because there are no actual games on for a week. I don't like the All-star break. I don't like that it lasts a week. I miss real NBA basketball.

[SleepingHero]

Matej Sportinfo (@MatejSportinfo)
Luka was asked at the press conference if there's a chance of him and Jokic playing together in the future... his answer: "Anything's possible."

This has always been my biggest fear.

[SleepingHero]

I agree.  I think this is true of every one-dimensional 3-point specialist.  I do think at least the Clippers and Nuggets are still probably more talented overall than we are even after the trades.  I also think we'll need to shoot better from 3 against either of those teams to win a playoff series against them.  THJ's performance I think would likely be the key to taking out either of those teams.

Very true. No knocking THJ. If he is a 19ppg guy off the bench with 45% 3pt shooting in the playoffs, I'm not sure there is any team that can stop the Mavs if they are healthy. Luka+Kyrie are going to give you 60 points. Green, Gafford, Lively, and PJ will at the minimum tack on 30 points a game. If THJ is bringing close to 20 points a night, then the Mavs are sleepwalking their way to 110 points a game. We still have Hardy, Exum, DJJ, and Maxi who can all contribute 10 points randomly here or there. 

That is really really REALLY hard to stop. And this is me assuming PJ won't get more comfortable scoring and that Luka and Kyrie will *only* average 30 a game (which history says Luka will average close to 40!!!!)

surfpuckmd

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Truthfully, though, I'm just making conversation because there are no actual games on for a week.  I don't like the All-star break.  I don't like that it lasts a week.  I miss real NBA basketball.

Hear hear!

[DanSchwartzgan]

Matej Sportinfo (@MatejSportinfo)
Luka was asked at the press conference if there's a chance of him and Jokic playing together in the future... his answer: "Anything's possible."

This has always been my biggest fear.

And our biggest opportunity.  Luka has a PO in the summer of 26, which means he will take his first Super-Max extension in the summer of 2025.

Jokic has a PO in the summer of 27 on his current Super-Max.  So, he will be extension eligible in the summer of 26 (after Luka has already committed to his).  Dallas has the contracts of Kyrie, PJ, Gafford and Kleber all ending that summer.  I think from a timing standpoint it more likely Denver would consider a trade if Jokic won't sign the extension (for his second 35% of the cap contract) than it is to think Luka will pass on his first Super-Max to become UFA.  Obviously anything can happen and either could demand a trade.  But Luka is younger and surrounded by a younger group of players than Denver has around Jokic.

One wild card in all of this is Lively.  Do you really need both Lively and Jokic?  If Lively is the star we think he will be, do you give him up?  His Rookie extension is that same summer meaning he'd be PP if we traded him after he signs.

[Mavs2021]

Truthfully, though, I'm just making conversation because there are no actual games on for a week.  I don't like the All-star break.  I don't like that it lasts a week.  I miss real NBA basketball.

I also don´t get it. Unless my math is off this game is in the middle of the night for Europe, Africa and the Middle East. It´s during working hours for China/Japan/Korea/Australia. Who are they marketing, too? Why not play the actual game on Saturday?

[SleepingHero]

And our biggest opportunity.  Luka has a PO in the summer of 26, which means he will take his first Super-Max extension in the summer of 2025.

Jokic has a PO in the summer of 27 on his current Super-Max.  So, he will be extension eligible in the summer of 26 (after Luka has already committed to his).  Dallas has the contracts of Kyrie, PJ, Gafford and Kleber all ending that summer.  I think from a timing standpoint it more likely Denver would consider a trade if Jokic won't sign the extension (for his second 35% of the cap contract) than it is to think Luka will pass on his first Super-Max to become UFA.  Obviously anything can happen and either could demand a trade.  But Luka is younger and surrounded by a younger group of players than Denver has around Jokic.

One wild card in all of this is Lively.  Do you really need both Lively and Jokic?  If Lively is the star we think he will be, do you give him up?  His Rookie extension is that same summer meaning he'd be PP if we traded him after he signs.

I love your positive spin on this. Im going to need a recurrent dose of that whenever this topic is brought up.

To answer your last question, I think if Jokic is actually ever available, you give up everything not named Luka to get him. Even 3 years from now. That duo would be Magic+Kareem 2.0 with better passing if that's even possible.

I do have to ask, the same logic we're using for Luka to re-sign here with a supermax, why would Jokic also forego that extension? Wouldn't it be more likely for Jokic to extend and force a trade? I suppose this only matters if Denver fizzles out in the next 3 years. Hard to imagine that happening with Murray being 26 (even if the injury bug has got him), and Gordon being 28.

[SleepingHero]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-intel-a-...t-updates/

The 76ers believed they had a trade done to acquire Bulls center Andre Drummond before Chicago pulled out of talks hours before the deadline, league sources told HoopsHype. The Bulls wanted three second-round picks for Drummond, league sources said. For context, the Nets acquired three second-round picks in the three-team Royce O’Neale trade.
Drummond was considered Chicago’s top trade candidate ahead of the deadline and also drew trade offers from the Celtics and Mavericks before both organizations went in other directions, league sources told HoopsHype.

[SleepingHero]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
Danuel House Jr. is currently considering his choices among multiple contenders in the Eastern Conference, such as the Atlanta Hawks, per NBA insider @PatBevPod
Retweets

[Mavs2021]

NBACentral (@TheDunkCentral)
Danuel House Jr. is currently considering his choices among multiple contenders in the Eastern Conference, such as the Atlanta Hawks, per NBA insider @PatBevPod
Retweets

PatBevFunny

[SleepingHero]

PatBevFunny

It's pretty scary how desperate the Hawks are for any sort of wing defense. 

The Mavs weren't that far off from the same fate. I remember pining for guys like House/Nerlens/Morris etc. who just hit the waiver wire in the hopes they could fill the holes on the team. Now? I'm pretty content. 

Somehow Nico/Lindsay has rebuilt this team getting:
Kyrie, Gafford, PJ, Lively, OMax, DJJ, Hardy, and Exum 
for 
DFS, Dinwiddie, Holmes, Bullock, Curry, Bertans, 2027 FRP, 2028 FRP (swap), 2029 FRP, 2030 FRP (swap), 2024 2nd, and a 2028 2nd. 

That is by far and away a masterclass. This team is by no means perfect. The health is a serious concern. There are risks everywhere. But I can say for certain this team is younger and deeper than ever. They are dynamic. They are athletic. They can play big. They can play small. And it blows me away looking around the league seeing that most teams have traded just those amounts of picks for guys like Kyrie alone. Of course Kyrie was that cheap because of good reasons, but somehow Nico/Lindsay got an entire roster for the same price PHX paid for KD and Wolves paid for Gobert. 

It's been said before but I keep needing to write it out because it is SO impressive the guys they've gotten in the aggregate. Losing Brunson for nothing, the KP trade, the Delon Wright trade, the JRich trade, the JJ Reddick trade. So many missteps all patched over by 5 great trades.

[F Gump]

I do have to ask, the same logic we're using for Luka to re-sign here with a supermax, why would Jokic also forego that extension? Wouldn't it be more likely for Jokic to extend and force a trade? 

Luka's next time to sign a contract will include a supermax-vs-not choice. If he extends with Dallas, he will be eligible for a full 35% max deal, but with anyone else (including via SNT) he only gets 30%. 

Jokic's next time to sign a contract will not have a supermax-vs-not choice. No matter who he signs with, he will be eligible for a full 35% max deal.

If Jokic decides he wants to play elsewhere at that point, it might happen via SNT, but teams with the ability to create the necessary cap room will have some leverage. That presumes he wants to leave. 

But there has been no indication of dissatisfaction, and they are winning, so it would seem way more likely that he will sign an extension with DEN before he even gets to free agency. If I calculate correctly, that door would open on July 8, 2025, when he could be offered an extension of 3 more years at the 35% max.

[SleepingHero]

@wojespn
Minnesota Timberwolves G Mike Conley Jr. has agreed on a two-year $21 million extension, Steven Heumann and Jess Holtz of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The Timberwolves keep Conley Jr. out of summer free agency and in backcourt thru 2025-2026.

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Luka's next time to sign a contract will include a supermax-vs-not choice. If he extends with Dallas, he will be eligible for a full 35% max deal, but with anyone else (including via SNT) he only gets 30%. 

Jokic's next time to sign a contract will not have a supermax-vs-not choice. No matter who he signs with, he will be eligible for a full 35% max deal.

If Jokic decides he wants to play elsewhere at that point, it might happen via SNT, but teams with the ability to create the necessary cap room will have some leverage. That presumes he wants to leave. 

But there has been no indication of dissatisfaction, and they are winning, so it would seem way more likely that he will sign an extension with DEN before he even gets to free agency. If I calculate correctly, that door would open on July 8, 2025, when he could be offered an extension of 3 more years at the 35% max.

I see the difference now. Thanks. And to your point about Jokic ever getting disasstisfied and leaving?

https://twitter.com/dnvr_nuggets/status/...l0dwwSY4OQ

@DNVR_Nuggets
"I don’t want to leave Denver... If Luka gets pissed off in Dallas, he can come."

Nikola Jokic says he'd be open to teaming up with Luka Doncic but only on the Nuggets.


Again I know 3 years is a long way away. But I can't see Jokic ever leaving Denver. Luka has said he's happy in Dallas and doesn't see himself leaving either. But if I had to bet on either of them leaving it'd unfortunately be the Don as much as I hate to say it.

[KillerLeft]

Again I know 3 years is a long way away. But I can't see Jokic ever leaving Denver. Luka has said he's happy in Dallas and doesn't see himself leaving either. But if I had to bet on either of them leaving it'd unfortunately be the Don as much as I hate to say it.

Agreed on Luka being more of a flight risk than Jokic. But, I don't think he'll bolt to go to a place like Denver, regardless of who's playing there. IF Luka leaves, it will be to LA, Miami or NY, just like every other superstar. That's my feeling, anyway.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

https://twitter.com/DNVR_Nuggets/status/...3836219826

[RGP1981]

Agreed on Luka being more of a flight risk than Jokic. But, I don't think he'll bolt to go to a place like Denver, regardless of who's playing there. IF Luka leaves, it will be to LA, Miami or NY, just like every other superstar. That's my feeling, anyway.

IF he leaves (not saying he will, but IF, hence the capitilization), then I'm putting my money on Denver, Utah, or the Lakers.

Do you want odds? Neither of us lose anything if he doesn't leave. Whatcha say?

[dirkfansince1998]

IF he leaves (not saying he will, but IF, hence the capitilization), then I'm putting my money on Denver, Utah, or the Lakers.

Do you want odds? Neither of us lose anything if he doesn't leave. Whatcha say?

Can you remind us of the last big free agent that signed with the Jazz (not including players they drafted)? Or a player that forced a trade because he wanted to join the Jazz?

[Luka77]

IF he leaves (not saying he will, but IF, hence the capitilization), then I'm putting my money on Denver, Utah, or the Lakers.

Do you want odds? Neither of us lose anything if he doesn't leave. Whatcha say?

I guarantee if he leaves which ever team he goes too will pay out of their nose for him.  So what are these teams giving the Mavs back?

Moreover, your constant trolling on this board is tiresome.  Luka is not going to either of your teams (Utah or the Lakers).