Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[youzigizag]

That's actually a big part of it. Gafford is basically a better version of what McGee was supposed to be. It's still 2020 Lakers 2.0. 
On defense: Big rim protector in the paint. Drop defense and ice against the pick and roll. Overload the strong side and pre rotate.
On offense: Iso heavy. Luka and Kyrie create the rest of the guys screen or space the floor. Not a lot of ball movement.

The guys they are adding right now are supposed to fill roles in that system. Gafford allows them to play 48 minutes of drop defense/rim protection + rim running. PJ is more versatile but for the most part he is going to space the floor or function as an outlet when teams double/trap Luka. I guess the idea is that he can take advantage of the resulting 4vs3.

This is just as much a test of Kidd's scheme as it is as about the players.

I have seen some PJ highlights where he is standing at the free throw line as Ball gets doubled at the Logo(similar to Luka doubles) and Ball outlets to PJ (with one guy between him and basket and tons of space around them)at the free throw line with tons of space around him and just turns around and does a push shot for an easy bucket.

Couldnt Holmes do that?

I guess they tried and it wasnt working?   Holmes has the push shot to make that work...like in the PJ highlights of him being the outlet man for Ball on Ball doubles.   Most of the highlights I saw of PJ as the outlet and exploiting 4v3 was him catching the ball, turning around and doing a push shot.

I get that PJ is more well-rounded skill wise and a better athlete than Holmes...maybe the Mavs think PJ is better suited to attack the basket for an easy layup in that situation if push shot is not there with his skillset?

I will say that PJ seems to be the better option in that specific scenario over Maxi, Holmes and Grant Williams.  Lively does really well at exploiting that situation as well.

[ThisIStheYear]

Bummer. Looks like Spencer to LA. Moderate size loss for the Mavs. Nice pickup for the Lakers. Mavs are now Exum health dependent. Buy out market cashed.

[Jakeospikez]

You made a great summary and as I said before, I totally agree Mavs are better than they were. 

However, I remember you saying early in the season, I can't see how Mavs offense can be stopped with Luka/Kyrie/Lively and two shooters. Turns out Mavs offense is as good as it always was, but Mavs defense was so bad that good teams easily scored even more. I don't see Mavs significantly improved in that area.

This last paragraph you posted is why I am not enthusiastic. If Mavs ceiling is a 2nd round exit, how do they improve from here? As you said - going from Green and PJ to a serious upgrade isn't easy. Give it another try and finish with another 2nd round exit? Perhaps even WCF. Kyrie will turn 34 after that. 

I don't buy "we got young players (Gafford, PJ) who will keep their value" narrative some have posted. Both PJ and Gafford will be 26 next year and they have been around long enough. I could see Gafford having same value as Mavs paid. But PJ was greatly overpaid for what he is and will have to be considerably better in Dallas to have an almost unprotected FRP value.

I am not interested in being decent. I want rings. I am sure Luka does too.

I don't really think it's that difficult to see where the improvement would come year over year. 2nd round exit is fine this year. young players need to get experience. Lively needs a lot of exp. Lively/Green/PJW/OMax/Exum are all getting better every year. Luka himself is also getting better. Hardy too but I wouldn't include him in the playoff rotation. Mavs have had a bad defense because they've been playing undersized a lot of their games because of injuries (THJ PF?). Defense is much better after getting Maxi back alone. They have actual size now and front court depth. Also defense will improve by young players getting better and kicking THJ out of the rotation or having him only play like 10 bench minutes max for a playoff game. I don't think Mavs need a major starter upgrade but you never know, if any of these young players impress during a playoff run, they could be used in a trade for a bigger piece because playoff performance jacks player values up a lot. I personally don't think a bigger piece is really needed. This lineup is fine just needs experience and for young guys to improve. Imo these TDL moves are much better than dumping Green+OMax+2027 1st for a player like Siakam. Also keeping a team's core together improves the team every year because of chemistry and comfort in a system.

[Jakeospikez]

I have seen some PJ highlights where he is standing at the free throw line as Ball gets doubled at the Logo(similar to Luka doubles) and Ball outlets to PJ (with one guy between him and basket and tons of space around them)at the free throw line with tons of space around him and just turns around and does a push shot for an easy bucket.

Couldnt Holmes do that?

I guess they tried and it wasnt working?   Holmes has the push shot to make that work...like in the PJ highlights of him being the outlet man for Ball on Ball doubles.   Most of the highlights I saw of PJ as the outlet and exploiting 4v3 was him catching the ball, turning around and doing a push shot.

I get that PJ is more well-rounded skill wise and a better athlete than Holmes...maybe the Mavs think PJ is better suited to attack the basket for an easy layup in that situation if push shot is not there with his skillset?

I will say that PJ seems to be the better option in that specific scenario over Maxi, Holmes and Grant Williams.  Lively does really well at exploiting that situation as well.

Holmes used to make the push shot every time but every time I saw him try it on the Mavs he bricked it. Don't know what happens to make him not good at it anymore but it's been a few years since he had lots of minutes in Sac plus all the off court drama. PJW should have lots of opportunities to make stuff happen here.

[Jason Terry]

I'd be interested to know the situation is with some of the other teams who have trade capital that absolutely dwarf the Mavs. I feel like some of them held back this TDL in order to understand more about their roster letting the season play out (OKC), before potentially going ham in the off season. Making this TDL a better opportunity for us to have gotten something of value than the off season will be given what we are competing with. But haven't looked too deeply at that situation.

This is an important point. 11 teams control 75% of all picks. The competition with teams like OKC, Orlando, New Orleans would lead to us losing a bidding war. There was an advantage to us being first movers. 

At this point, the only real player decisions coming up are on DJJ, THJ, Hardy and the 2024 2nd which will likely be pick 58(two 2nds are forfeited) 

2028 Miami 2nd is now unavailable. We have the 2025 Raptors 2nd, a 2028 least favorable and our own 2031 2nd 

Nico and Dennis have shown they excel in the draft. We don’t need high picks for them. I like the idea of letting them work with what we have to bring in more young talent each year. It’s nice they have a starting point to doing something in this draft. It’s considered a “weak” draft but that may be good for us to find value. Hardy has no role on this team and i think the best move is to get a future asset for him before his contract is up

DJJ can either take the tax MLE or not. At the full MLE there was a chance he could be a bad deal. At the smaller MLE it would be excellent value regardless. If he says no, I’m hopeful we will find someone else

THJ is the spot that if we REALLY wanted to go all in it would be him. THJ + Omax + 2025 FRP + 2031 FRP + swap for Lauri?!?!?!?……….. I’m not ready for something like that NOW or this summer. Possibly next TDL if it makes sense, but we need a good year of evaluating what we currently have

Its an exciting time to be a Mav

[mvossman]

Having had a couple of days to reflect on the moves, a few thoughts:
1) PJ, for all his question marks and inefficiencies, is a more skilled player than Green, DFS, or GW. We've lacked skilled guys around here lately. This is a good thing.
2) PJ as he is now is overpaid, which gives great credence to the "Mavs got fleeced" narrative. Why did we have to give a FRP for a guy who got more than market value last summer?
3) PJ is undersized for the sort of starting PF we're looking for.
4) His skill level should serve to make things easier for Luka.
5) Bottom line on PJ is that there had better be a big Luka bump, and a lot of hard work to learn to play effective and efficient defense.
6) Many are also grousing that Gafford is overpaid. I know many here simply hate centers, but the bottom line is that Lively has shown how effective it is to have a strong center with Luka.
7) Gafford may be a backup, but he's very, very good as far as that sort of role goes. Think of all of the money we've shelled out on Powell and Maxi.
8) Seems to me that Gafford would be very effective next to Maxi or PJ. Maybe not so much Lively or Powell.

In what world did PJ get more than market value last summer?  He was a starter playing over 32 minutes a game and scoring 16 per at only 24 years old.  That is the profile of a player who is going to get paid.  He was an RFA, which is always going to depress your contract.  In fact there are hints that he was a little disgruntled about getting strong armed into that contract.  I feel like folks are reading too much into half a season and ignore everything before.

[BigDirk41]

Can teams still buy first round picks? The new owners are rich AF so maybe they will buy a later first rounder some years.

[omahen]

Can teams still buy first round picks? The new owners are rich AF so maybe they will buy a later first rounder some years.

Nothing so far has indicated that new owners are particularly interested in the basketball side of this venture

[Scott41theMavs]

In what world did PJ get more than market value last summer?  He was a starter playing over 32 minutes a game and scoring 16 per at only 24 years old.  That is the profile of a player who is going to get paid.  He was an RFA, which is always going to depress your contract.  In fact there are hints that he was a little disgruntled about getting strong armed into that contract.  I feel like folks are reading too much into half a season and ignore everything before.

K. Hope you're right and I'm wrong.

[KillerLeft]

K. Hope you're right and I'm wrong.

In all seriousness, Washington is taking an unnecessary beating around here. It may not happen right away, but by this time next year he will have blossomed into a much better player than people are expecting. He just has so many attributes that the Mavericks need.

[Scott41theMavs]

In all seriousness, Washington is taking an unnecessary beating around here. It may not happen right away, but by this time next year he will have blossomed into a much better player than people are expecting. He just has so many attributes that the Mavericks need.

As others have pointed out, his advanced metrics have always been toiletsville. I'm praying that his joy at playing for the Mavs translates into an effort level that corrects those concerns.

[WildArkieBoy]

In all seriousness, Washington is taking an unnecessary beating around here. It may not happen right away, but by this time next year he will have blossomed into a much better player than people are expecting. He just has so many attributes that the Mavericks need.

Dinwiddie to the Lakers:  Get healthy Dante!!

[KillerLeft]

As others have pointed out, his advanced metrics have always been toiletsville. I'm praying that his joy at playing for the Mavs translates into an effort level that corrects those concerns.

He has always been under 25, and has always played for the Charlotte hornets. I’m thinking that his advanced metrics might not be the best judge of what’s to come in the future. I like what he brings to the table a lot.

[Scott41theMavs]

He has always been under 25, and has always played for the Charlotte hornets. I’m thinking that his advanced metrics might not be the best judge of what’s to come in the future. I like what he brings to the table a lot.

Much of whatever positive feelings I have regarding his acquisition have to do with your salivating over him as perfect for the Mavs about two years ago, IIRC and FWIW.

[jon.neal52]

With Didwiddie off the market I’m hoping for Danuel House or Kyle Lowry. Tempted to try out Killean Hayes to see if he was just in the wrong system. Looks like he can handle the ball and get assists.

[The Jom]

Having had a couple of days to reflect on the moves, a few thoughts:
1) PJ, for all his question marks and inefficiencies, is a more skilled player than Green, DFS, or GW. We've lacked skilled guys around here lately. This is a good thing.
2) PJ as he is now is overpaid, which gives great credence to the "Mavs got fleeced" narrative. Why did we have to give a FRP for a guy who got more than market value last summer?
3) PJ is undersized for the sort of starting PF we're looking for.
4) His skill level should serve to make things easier for Luka.
5) Bottom line on PJ is that there had better be a big Luka bump, and a lot of hard work to learn to play effective and efficient defense.
6) Many are also grousing that Gafford is overpaid. I know many here simply hate centers, but the bottom line is that Lively has shown how effective it is to have a strong center with Luka.
7) Gafford may be a backup, but he's very, very good as far as that sort of role goes. Think of all of the money we've shelled out on Powell and Maxi.
8) Seems to me that Gafford would be very effective next to Maxi or PJ. Maybe not so much Lively or Powell.

Man do I ever disagree with this. PJ is a bargain contract. He merely needs to revert to the form of his first 4 years (before this half one) to be a terrific addition. You can only call him undersized by squinting hard so you miss his wingspan, standing reach, and vertical leap. Calling Gaff’s $12mm an overpay also seems crazy. In 2019 dollars, that’s only about 8.

[mvossman]

As others have pointed out, his advanced metrics have always been toiletsville. I'm praying that his joy at playing for the Mavs translates into an effort level that corrects those concerns.

This is not really true.  The best advanced metric out there is EPM.  It has him being a better than average NBA player until this season (average upper 60s percentile prior three years) with both offense and defense being better than average.  Most of the negatives regarding him are mostly due to this current season.

[SleepingHero]

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
Free agent F Justise Winslow is signing a 10-day deal with the Toronto Raptors, sources tell ESPN. Winslow has been playing with the Raptors’ 905 G League team.

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Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
The Oklahoma City Thunder are adding frontcourt depth, signing veteran center Bismack Biyombo to a minimum deal, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Biyombo averaged 5.2 points and 6.4 rebounds over 30 games for Grizzlies this

[Scott41theMavs]

Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn)
Free agent F Justise Winslow is signing a 10-day deal with the Toronto Raptors, sources tell ESPN. Winslow has been playing with the Raptors’ 905 G League team.

---

Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania)
The Oklahoma City Thunder are adding frontcourt depth, signing veteran center Bismack Biyombo to a minimum deal, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Biyombo averaged 5.2 points and 6.4 rebounds over 30 games for Grizzlies this

Hope Biyombo can't suit up for the game.

[SleepingHero]

Marcus Morris is ready to help a team.