Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[SleepingHero]

I think he's been less bad than Grant Williams this season so I suppose that is an upgrade.  I don't think he was worth the price we paid.  That's my argument.

We're actually very much in agreement here. I did not think PJ was worth anywhere near the 2027 first. I felt the ability to go into the summer with 3 picks trumped what I perceive is a minor upgrade over Grant Williams. 

But I offer you two different viewpoints. First, I really love what Jason Terry said a couple of pages back. Looking at the last 4 trades for the Mavs, they've spent 2027, 2028, 2029, and 2030 and have netted:

Kyrie Irving
Daniel Gafford
PJ Washington
Omax

Usually a player of Kyrie Irving's caliber is worth 3 FRP alone. The fact they got someone of that caliber for so cheap has allowed them to spend a little more elsewhere. In the aggregate the Mavs have used their assets pretty remarkably well. 


Of course this has only worked cause Kyrie has worked out. That was the biggest risk out of all the deals. Let's hope Kyrie continues to work out. 


2nd view point:

There has a been a lot of smoke that Kidd, and the front office didn't think certain guys fit and that we needed an upgrade. Of course we did need that, but after the TDL we've heard Luka begging for a backup center, how Grant Williams grated on the locker room, and that Holmes was frustrated in Dallas. The Mavs trimmed the fat and upgraded at each step.


Again. I agree PJ was a huge risk and an overpay, but overall the Mavs roster building has been consistent in incremental improvements. I hope it pays dividends this 2nd half of the season.

[omahen]

Dallas can pay him more. If they want him badly enough I'm sure they'll get him.

As FGump explained, they can't pay him more. Bought out player gets the value of his contract (unless he negotiates for less in the buyout). THe original team pays the difference between the buyout agreement and his new salary.

[KillerLeft]

As FGump explained, they can't pay him more. Bought out player gets the value of his contract (unless he negotiates for less in the buyout). THe original team pays the difference between the buyout agreement and his new salary.

I'm not sure I follow "gets the value of his contract." Can you elaborate?

I have seen in several places that the Mavs can offer more money, so if that it is incorrect it's widely incorrect.

[Scott41theMavs]

@AnthonyIrwinLA
Dinwiddie update…

Sources close to the Lakers say they’re still in hot pursuit and feel they have a very real chance at getting him. He’s still their top priority on the market.

Most league sources I’ve spoken to, however, believe he’s heading to Dallas.

Do with that what you will lol.

Dallas is his best path to reviving his value for his next contract. 

However, after reading how badly LA wants him, Rich Paul and Lebron generally get what they want since they own the league. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we're able to bring him back.

[Jmaciscool]

I'm not sure I follow "gets the value of his contract." Can you elaborate?

I have seen in several places that the Mavs can offer more money, so if that it is incorrect it's widely incorrect.

I think - and I'm no CBA expert - it means that if a player is bought out then some portion of that contract is paid for by the new team the player signs with based on the prorated amount remaining (I think).  So the original team gets to save a little money for a player they no longer want/need and the player gets to move to a different team without losing money.  Win-win.  But because the amount is based on the original contract the player can't get additional money, so the fact that the Mavs have more available doesn't have an impact.

At least that's my understanding.

[omahen]

I'm not sure I follow "gets the value of his contract." Can you elaborate?

I have seen in several places that the Mavs can offer more money, so if that it is incorrect it's widely incorrect.

Lets say SD has a 20 mil contract and he agrees to buyout at full value. Toronto will pay 20 mil minus whatever he gets from Mavs.

If I understand correctly, the ability to pay more would come into play if Mavs would sign someone into their remaining MLE past this season. Lets say, if SD agreed to a multiyear deal at 5 per or whatever space Mavs have left.

[KillerLeft]

I think - and I'm no CBA expert - it means that if a player is bought out then some portion of that contract is paid for by the new team the player signs with based on the prorated amount remaining (I think).  So the original team gets to save a little money for a player they no longer want/need and the player gets to move to a different team without losing money.  Win-win.  But because the amount is based on the original contract the player can't get additional money, so the fact that the Mavs have more available doesn't have an impact.

At least that's my understanding.

Is this new, or is there any other reason to believe national guys might not know this? Because I'm seeing discussion on twitter from people I normally trust about how the Mavs have more of their MLE left than LA, etc. 

And, even with your explanation, I still don't get it. Most buyouts end up signing for the Minimum, and I always assumed that was because the minimum exception is all any of the deirable teams had left down the stretch of a season.  I've never once heard mention of a link to their former contract. Doesn't mean it's not there, it's just new information for me. 

Can someone point me towards the original post from FGump?

---

If I understand correctly, the ability to pay more would come into play if Mavs would sign someone into their remaining MLE past this season. Lets say, if SD agreed to a multiyear deal at 5 per or whatever space Mavs have left.

Right, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. They CAN pay him more by choosing to do that...RIGHT?

[KillerLeft]

https://x.com/EricPincus/status/17560388...37121?s=20

Eric Pincus:

"My gut says Dinwiddie chooses the Mavericks, simply because they can pay him more than LAL. Even after set off, Spencer can earn -twice as much in Dallas. That may not be the decider, but usually is

https://x.com/EricPincus/status/17560389...86903?s=20

"That's assuming the Mavericks and Lakers offer whatever they have left in their pro-rated NTMLE's. Both team should need to mind the first apron, but shouldn't be prohibitive."

This definitely wouldn't be the first time our FGump was right and the national guys were wrong, but I need some more explanation on this one, because I don't get it.

[MFFL]

I think the difference is between being waived and bought out.

A waived player is released by his team without the players consent and gets the full value of his contract immediately. BUT the player has to go through the waiver wire and can be claimed by another team (and that team assumes the contract). IF the player clears waivers and signs with another team during the remainder of the contract, the original team is reimbursed by the amount the second team pays.

A bought out player has his contract terminated by mutual consent. The amount is up to the full amount of the remainder of the contract but usually at a slight discount. This player is a complete free agent and can sign for any amount that is available on the market.

[KillerLeft]

I think the difference is between being waived and bought out.

A waived player gets the full value of his contract immediately. BUT the player has to go through the waiver wire and can be claimed by another team (and that team assumes the contract). AND if the player is signed during the remainder of the contract, the original team is reimbursed by the amount the second team pays.

A bought out player has his contract terminated. The amount is up to the full amount of the remainder of the contract but usually at a slight discount. This player is a complete free agent and can sign for any amount that is available on the market.

This was my understanding, too. 

Was Dinwiddie not a buyout? Maybe that's what I'm missing.

[mvossman]

Again. I agree PJ was a huge risk and an overpay, but overall the Mavs roster building has been consistent in incremental improvements. I hope it pays dividends this 2nd half of the season.

A lightly protected first round pick for PJ would have been an overpay, but even if you ignore the two seconds coming back, a significant chunk of that value was to get off a player who was terrible on the court and already becoming a problem in the locker room with 3 and a half more years on his contract.  Personally I am at least as relieved to have GWill off this team as I am to have PJ on it.  Its a bonus that there is a possibility PJ becomes worth the first by himself.

[MFFL]

This was my understanding, too. 

Was Dinwiddie not a buyout? Maybe that's what I'm missing.

Every report I read said Dinwiddie was being waived.

---

The difference is consent. A player can be waived without his consent. A player can only be bought out WITH consent.

[KillerLeft]

The difference is consent. A player can be waived without his consent. A player can only be bought out WITH consent.

Great, so why is there disagreement about whether or not there can be a bidding war for him at this juncture?

[MFFL]

This is what makes it confusing.

+++

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
To avoid a $1.5M upcoming contract bonus for games played, the Toronto Raptors are planning to waive Spencer Dinwiddie, sources tell @TheAthletic

Major new entry to the NBA’s buyout market who will be coveted by several playoff teams.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Lets say SD has a 20 mil contract and he agrees to buyout at full value. Toronto will pay 20 mil minus whatever he gets from Mavs.

If I understand correctly, the ability to pay more would come into play if Mavs would sign someone into their remaining MLE past this season. Lets say, if SD agreed to a multiyear deal at 5 per or whatever space Mavs have left.

The other place it might come into play would be if SD took a discount in order to be set free.  Say he took $15mm to not have to move to Canada (forgetting proration for a moment).  

An element of that negotiation is something they call the ‘offset’ language.   Toronto might agree that the money SD might receive in the buyout market doesn’t go against what they owe him since he took a sizable discount.  So, if SD goes to a Vet Min offer he gets $17mm for the year (again forgetting proration to keep it simple).  If Dallas pays him $5mm, he gets back to even.  

My memory is foggy, but I think something like that happened with DWill, but I could be mistaken.

Edit:  To address MFFL’s point about waivers, I think (at least in the old CBA), the waiving team only gets back a portion of the new salary up to the Minimum.  So, if the new CBA has the same language then SD profits the amount over the minimum he gets.  He’s probably trying to get some or all of his bonus back.  As FGump said though, Dallas won’t go over the tax.  So, the offer would be a portion of the pro-rated MLE up to the tax.

[MFFL]

Great, so why is there disagreement about whether or not there can be a bidding war for him at this juncture?

If he was waived then he can't make more than his original contract. He's getting that contract paid in full - all money paid by the new team goes back to the original team.

So yes the Mavs can pay more, but none of it goes to Dinwiddie.

[KillerLeft]

If he was waived then he can't make more than his original contract. He's getting that contract paid in full - all money paid by the new team goes back to the original team.

So yes the Mavs can pay more, but none of it goes to Dinwiddie.

Yeah, I get that. I guess we need to know whether he was waived against his will or if there was some type of buyout.

[MFFL]

Yeah, I get that. I guess we need to know whether he was waived against his will or if there was some type of buyout.

I think he was waived because the Raptors wanted to avoid paying the $1.5m contract bonus for playing 50 games.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I did not think PJ was worth anywhere near the 2027 first.

I think it was either the 27FRP or Green.  I'd rather Green than the 27FRP.

[michaeltex]

Remember the Garth Brooks song "Unanswered Prayers"?

Per Jason Quick of The Athletic:

“But I would have liked something bold. A trade of Deandre Ayton, for starters. Although his play has spiked for the better in the past month, his first months in Portland were defined by tardiness and tantrums according to team sources. And there has been an eerie resemblance to Hassan Whiteside, the former Blazers’ center whose statistics looked nice, but had little to no impact on a game. The quicker the Blazers can move off Ayton, the sooner I will believe this franchise is headed in the right direction.”