Trade & FA 2023-24: OKC The Favorite For Nic Claxton Should He Leave BRK

[mvossman]

How bout PJ and Kyle Lowry for the unwanted 4 (Morris, Holmes, Hardaway, Williams). I’d pay an unprotected first for that.

Why?  Holmes and Hardaway will be expiring in the offseason and perfect fodder for trades.  All that trade would do is bring us roughly to the cap line.  After the first 10 mil you are not accomplishing anything.  GWill is looking like a bad contract, but it makes no sense to spend part of an unprotected first to dump him for air when you have no way to replace it.

[youzigizag]

Box score plus minus metrics being the end all be all that lots of fans care about is getting tiresome. Need to watch players play. Lamelo has been out most of the year and maybe he's disgruntled that he's stuck there because he was a RFA and wants out and all anyone can do is point to plus minus. GWill had good metrics in Boston Im sure, yet he is clearly not a fit here as a starting 4. Random 4s/5s shoot over him in the paint like he doesn't even exist. PJ has plenty of skill, proper size/length, actually blocks shots, and will likely be much better here. Him being a bad defender in Cha doesn't instantly correlate that he'll suck here. Mavs do their double and swarm scheme and he may be the right guy to play 4 for that scheme cause he is decently quick for a big wing. I'd be fine with PJ. Would prefer someone with a shorter contract like PJs if the Mavs believe in OMax cause they'll expire out sooner and can potentially be used in a trade in a couple of years if OMax is ready to take over. Collins is way more expensive but has only 2 more years and a big expiring. Beef stew would prob be fine also. Whatever the best deal is any of these guys would be ok as starting 4s/small ball 5s.

Getting proper value for the 2027 1st might need to be a combination of players plus shedding bad contracts. I think the move is to just trade the 2027 1st really. If Luka leaves they should get a ton of assets back to recover and if he stays you need to start being good now while he's peaking and ready for title contention. Really depends on if they have some plan for this offseason I guess. THJ/Holmes can be valuable salary matching this offseason, or maybe some tanking team wants expirings going into next season rather than expiring this season so they have value this tdl.


Kuzma does have skill but what has this skill lead to with Kuzma? He thinks he's the shit and he chucks trying to jack his numbers up so that he can get a bigger next contract. OMax already looks like a better defender than him. His feet are way quicker and he hustles his ass off on defense plus his arms are longer. Look at OMax's fluidness on defense. He buys into the defensive stopper role as his main skill. Kuzma will be the guy to not care about spending lots of energy on defense and just want to get his numbers up.

THJ thinks he is the best shooter in the World and chucks too.  Only thing is Kuzma has more skill and is 6'9+...which means he has the ability to disrupt with his athleticism.  THJ doesnt.

I do agree with the defensive stopper role of Prosper.   That means something.   But is he another DFS with low offensive skill?  We saw how that got frustrating.   OMax best quality seems to be the ability to drive and finish even if it looks ugly...there is a lot to grow on there.  The best thing about it is...he is not afraid and eager to take it to the rim unlike DFS, Maxi and Green his first couple of years.

Knowing your role is important...and we need defense over offense.   But we have seen what low offensive skilled defenders do.

If Kuzma was bought in to what the Mavs were trying to do and they trusted his effort to be that specific person Mavs want...Im willing to take the risk assuming there is not a more well rounded lengthy guy coming on market this summer that Mavs are confident they can acquire.

TL;DR = I think I would like to see investment into lengthy, well rounded fundamental players over value, bargain bin fit guys.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

I’m pretty sure even Kuzma would be fully aware he is 3rd in the pecking order behind two of the best offensive players to EVER play the game. And he would still even probably average 20ppg, just feasting off of easy looks. Imagine replacing GW or DJJ with a 6’10 version of Josh Green. Kuzma would have to buy-in, of course. But our rebounding and defense would probably improve and the offensive potential would go through the roof.

[vfromlmf]

Luka and Kyrie could’ve used the help tonight. This game is a great example that illustrates my argument that THJ is the odd man out. His shots and minutes were down because he’s TOO SMALL and it’s only going to get worse when Exum returns. This team needs one of Green/Exum on the floor at all times and THJ isn’t taking Luka or Kyrie’s minutes unless it’s getting them to 36 instead of 40. There’s not enough minutes left for another 6’ 5” guard to get 28 minutes per game, and THJ is never going to average 18 points in 14-18 minutes that are available. This negates his value to this team. THJ needs to be moved for more size.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Luka and Kyrie could’ve used the help tonight. This game is a great example that illustrates my argument that THJ is the odd man out. His shots and minutes were down because he’s TOO SMALL and it’s only going to get worse when Exum returns. This team needs one of Green/Exum on the floor at all times and THJ isn’t taking Luka or Kyrie’s minutes unless it’s getting them to 36 instead of 40. There’s not enough minutes left for another 6’ 5” guard to get 28 minutes per game, and THJ is never going to average 18 points in 14-18 minutes that are available. This negates his value to this team. THJ needs to be moved for more size.

Definitely need another guy that can create his own shot. I thought Hardy looked good again tonight, albeit in limited minutes. THJ, Josh Green and Exum can create at times, in a pinch. But we really could use a 3rd option for when Ky or Luka is sitting. Or sitting out.

[KillerLeft]

Luka and Kyrie could’ve used the help tonight. This game is a great example that illustrates my argument that THJ is the odd man out. His shots and minutes were down because he’s TOO SMALL and it’s only going to get worse when Exum returns. This team needs one of Green/Exum on the floor at all times and THJ isn’t taking Luka or Kyrie’s minutes unless it’s getting them to 36 instead of 40. There’s not enough minutes left for another 6’ 5” guard to get 28 minutes per game, and THJ is never going to average 18 points in 14-18 minutes that are available. This negates his value to this team. THJ needs to be moved for more size.

Luka is not a guard on defense. 6’6” is not small for a guard. What are you talking about?

[vfromlmf]

Luka is not a guard on defense. 6’6” is not small for a guard. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about playing defense. Luka doesn't play any defense. Look at the rotations. Dallas played at least 5 minutes tonight with Luka, Ky, Green, THJ on the floor. I don't care if you call them guards, wings, or smalls, or positionless. That's just not sustainable. Now add Exum. He's got a little more beef in the rear end than THJ but he's still too small to regularly play with three of Luka, Ky, Green, and THJ. It's TOO SMALL. Sure, they can be competitive and they can beat a lot of teams if the superstars play 40 minutes and each score 30 but we've seen this team get bullied repeatedly against bigger teams.

The Mavs "big wing," forward, power forward, whatever you want to call it i.e. GWill and DJJ each got about 20 min which is probably about right given what we've seen from them this year. But they're small too.

It solves part of the Mavs size issues if you replace GWill with a bigger more athletic wing. But that doesn't open up more minutes for THJ, in fact it might cut into his minutes even more.

My point is, if you pay attention, there isn't a way to solve the size problem while simultaneously giving THJ enough minutes to justify his role on this team, unless you want to play THJ at the expense of Green/Exum, and I don't. If THJ wants to play 18 minutes and limit himself to a few catch & shoot threes while playing strong defense, fine. Then we don't have a THJ problem. But that's not what THJ does in this league.

[Jakeospikez]

I don't think the Mavs need playmaking from a big wing. Luka/Exum/Green lineups have looked good. Not sure how many minutes they've played but I bet Kyrie/Exum/Green lineups have been fine as well. OMax has shown decent handles, he's erratic right now but over time seems like it'll be adequate. 3&D with rebounding is more important than playmaking from the big wing.

THJ doesn't fit on a team with Luka/Kyrie imo so he needs to be moved. They can't play together all at the same time. Maybe if the Mavs were heavily dependent on THJ as 6th man, a playmaking big wing would be required, but rather play Exum/Green over THJ. Hardy/Seth is sufficient to cover for injuries/rest days.

[The Jom]

Why?  Holmes and Hardaway will be expiring in the offseason and perfect fodder for trades.  All that trade would do is bring us roughly to the cap line.  After the first 10 mil you are not accomplishing anything.  GWill is looking like a bad contract, but it makes no sense to spend part of an unprotected first to dump him for air when you have no way to replace it.

Doh!

[Knutsen]

I’m pretty sure even Kuzma would be fully aware he is 3rd in the pecking order behind two of the best offensive players to EVER play the game. And he would still even probably average 20ppg, just feasting off of easy looks. Imagine replacing GW or DJJ with a 6’10 version of Josh Green. Kuzma would have to buy-in, of course. But our rebounding and defense would probably improve and the offensive potential would go through the roof.

And now imagine - maybe for the second half of next season - a starting line-up of

Kyrie
Luka
O-Max
Kuzma
Lively

Now you‘re talking about one of the longest and at the same time most skilled line-ups in the league with two very athletic and defensively focused young guys at the three and at the five and a mismatch for every single defense at the one, two and four positions.

[youzigizag]

And now imagine - maybe for the second half of next season - a starting line-up of

Kyrie
Luka
O-Max
Kuzma
Lively

Now you‘re talking about one of the longest and at the same time most skilled line-ups in the league with two very athletic and defensively focused young guys at the three and at the five and a mismatch for every single defense at the one, two and four positions.

I love the size...posters will argue about OMax and Kuzma 3 percentage, though.

Also...who is the POA Defender here?

[donzingis38]

Really not a fan of Kuzma. I think he's a low IQ player. Who's guarding Booker/KD/PG/Kawhi/SGA/Ant/Fox? Someone like Jerami Grant would be my preference. Maybe even DFS. He fits better and will definitely embrace his role. I also think we need another center to come off the bench. A bit unfair to just rely on Lively. Even Tyson Chandler had Brendan Haywood..

[F Gump]

From Fisher:

The Bucks’ valuation of Portis, not just for his shooting ability and veteran know-how but also his championship history with the franchise, is also the reason it would take far more than Grant Williams, sources said, for Milwaukee to send Portis to Dallas.

As I watch what's happening in MIL, I am persuaded this snippet is MIL trying to negotiate through the media. I think they badly want to make a trade, but haven't heard of anyone else being interested in Portis except Dallas, which hampers their ability to up the price and extract better offers.

They may indeed opt not to deal, but I think their STRONG preference is to change the mix somehow.

[SleepingHero]

Luka is not a guard on defense. 6’6” is not small for a guard. What are you talking about?

Is it kind of crazy to say I think 6'6 is becoming small for a guard in today's league? Every year we're seeing dudes get bigger and bigger that can do everything on the court.

Obviously 6'6 isn't small (Even though THJ is 6'5, and that isn't small either). But if you don't move your feet or pay attention off ball then it doesn't matter how tall you are. 

There was a moment last night against the Nets where THJ basically ball watched O'Neal while he pulled for a 3. And this was right after the Nets just hit 4/6 threes to open the 4th and O'Neal hit 2 of those I believe. Kidd called a timeout and that was the last we saw of THJ for the rest of the night.

Point is, we need size, but what we're really after is defense with size. THJ is neither, and I agree with vfromlmf that THJ overlaps too much with Luka+Kyrie to have any sort of role on this team. 

Anyways not trying to derail any conversation. Just my 2 cents.

[RGP1981]

If nothing else, can the Mavs FO at least make a trade for Grimes?

I could live with this temporarily while they figure out how to upgrade the Forward and backup Center positions.

Kyrie................ Exum
Grimes............. Green
Luka................ THJ
New PF............ DJJ/G-Will
Lively............... Kleber.......... ABCD, anyone but clown Dwight

[surfpuckmd]

And now imagine - maybe for the second half of next season - a starting line-up of

Kyrie
Luka
O-Max
Kuzma
Lively

Now you‘re talking about one of the longest and at the same time most skilled line-ups in the league with two very athletic and defensively focused young guys at the three and at the five and a mismatch for every single defense at the one, two and four positions.

I don't think that would work very well.  That lineup doesn't shoot well enough to play with Luka.  I also believe OMax will be a 4.  I think he'll play in lineups with someone like Kleber.  We need someone next to him who can shoot.

[Okstate819]

THJ is the obvious odd man out. I wonder if the simplest trade is THJ and 27 1st for PJ? He really would be a great fit and although giving up 27 hurts it’s better than 27 +omax that it would take to get Kuzma.

[surfpuckmd]

THJ is the obvious odd man out. I wonder if the simplest trade is THJ and 27 1st for PJ? He really would be a great fit and although giving up 27 hurts it’s better than 27 +omax that it would take to get Kuzma.

THJ is a better player than PJ Washington.  Giving up THJ for PJ Washington makes some sense in that we would be bigger but adding a 1st for the privilege would be a disaster.  

Kuzma is a better player than PJ Washington but doesn't really solve our problems.

If our best options are to trade our 2027 1st for PJ Washington or Kyle Kuzma, I hope Mark Cuban will just sit on his hands.  Or, someone else can sit on his hands until the trade deadline is over.

[Okstate819]

THJ is a better player than PJ Washington.  Giving up THJ for PJ Washington makes some sense in that we would be bigger but adding a 1st for the privilege would be a disaster.  

Kuzma is a better player than PJ Washington but doesn't really solve our problems.

If our best options are to trade our 2027 1st for PJ Washington or Kyle Kuzma, I hope Mark Cuban will just sit on his hands.  Or, someone else can sit on his hands until the trade deadline is over.

THJ is not a better player than PJ Washington. Not in any way shape or form. Now factor in this teams need for a versatile 2 way 4 with a 7’2 wingspan and that swap is a no brainer. Also PJ is on a fantastic contract. You certainly would have to add some asset to entice Cha.

[KillerLeft]

My point is, if you pay attention, there isn't a way to solve the size problem while simultaneously giving THJ enough minutes to justify his role on this team, unless you want to play THJ at the expense of Green/Exum, and I don't. If THJ wants to play 18 minutes and limit himself to a few catch & shoot threes while playing strong defense, fine. Then we don't have a THJ problem. But that's not what THJ does in this league.

Well, V, in full transparency, I am one of the few who did not immediately reach the conclusion that size is what is wrong with the Mavs. 

Further, when talking to you guys who think this way, it’s clear that you think they’re playing hardaway right now because they have to. I submit that if the type of size you’re asking for was the solution, they probably could have found a way to get much closer with the players on hand. 

I think they need to trade for a four, sure, but I think the main reason is that Williams has been a disappointment. If he had done what he was expected to do, I’d be fine with this team, personally. 

Many people who agree with you guys are just looking for an excuse to get rid of Hardaway. That’s as far as logic enters into it for them. I have no problem dealing Hardaway (I’d probably wait until the summer, when he’s expiring and therefore more valuable, and when he’s not the leading bench scorer in the NBA) but he’s playing WELL this year. 

If you guys think adding a 4, and then giving all of Hardaway’s minutes to Exum/Green while simultaneously expecting DJJ to play the 3(!!) is going to magically make this a good defensive team…idk. Kind of doubt it. I do know that the offense and spacing will suffer if you remove Hardaway, and it already isn’t that great. 

The problem here isn’t size or defense. It’s coaching.

---

THJ is neither, and I agree with vfromlmf that THJ overlaps too much with Luka+Kyrie to have any sort of role on this team. 

Idk, man… He’s had a pretty sizable role all year and has looked pretty damn good playing it.