Trade & FA 2023-24: NOP Will Not Give Ingram an Extension

[RGP1981]

All this talk about Wiggins has got me wondering... if the Mavs will not trade Kyrie for Dejounte, then why not try really hard to get Herbert Jones instead? He does what Wiggins does on defense for a much smaller contract. He also fits better between Luka-Kyrie than he would between Luka and a lesser offensive player than Kyrie, like a Luka-Dejounte. I'd give the Pels the 2027 FRP. Shoot the sherbert to me, Herbert!

Kyrie, Herbert, Luka, new PF, Lively

[omahen]

All this talk about Wiggins has got me wondering... why not try really hard to get Herbert Jones instead? He does what Wiggins does on defense for a much smaller contract. Shoot the sherbert to me, Herbert!

Kyrie, Herbert, Luka, new PF, Lively

Herb would be awesome and exactly what Mavs need, but all indications are that he is not available.

[youzigizag]

All this talk about Wiggins has got me wondering... if the Mavs will not trade Kyrie for Dejounte, then why not try really hard to get Herbert Jones instead? He does what Wiggins does on defense for a much smaller contract. He also fits better between Luka-Kyrie than he would between Luka and a lesser offensive player than Kyrie, like a Luka-Dejounte. I'd give the Pels the 2027 FRP.  Shoot the sherbert to me, Herbert!

Kyrie, Herbert, Luka, new PF, Lively

I loved Herb Jones breakout post season performance his rookie year.  Was that the bubble?   

I dont know his contract details...I absolutely like his length and defense.

But man o man...his offense is worse than DFS's.   The few times I have seen him put it on the floor and try and finish at the rim has been very bad.   Maybe I just caught him at bad times.   

I would just be very worried we get another player with major fundamental flaws.   We gain size and length and defense...but I think its fair to say that Mavs need players with well rounded fundamentals.   The past 4 years we have been stuck with many rotation players that have weird fundamental warts and it seems to be a real issue even if the players fit the system.   

I like the idea of going cheaper for Jones than Wiggins....absolutely.

[Mavs2021]

All reports indicate that saving money is not a priority for GSW. Their only priority is being competitive or gaining flexibility/assets to become more competitive. That is why I don't think any ideas for them to give up assets to get out of Wiggins contract make a lot of sense, unless a true difference maker is going their way. Contracts Mavs would be able to offer are not that. GSW gets easily under the second apron by optimizing CP3 and Klay new deals (or letting one or both go).

I´m thinking that is it. Thompson will be 34 in two days. He´s been a net negative on defense since his injury return. This year it is particuarly bad. His numbers  are eerily similar to THJ. Only difference is that Thompson has a 5% higher FT percentage, while THJ´s defensive on/off is -4 compared to -8 for Thompson. So are you looking forward to paying a 34 year old THJ $30M/year and Thompson probably thinks that is the Warriors friends and family discount. 

I wonder whether the Warriors threw Wiggins name out there to start conversations and then sneakily steer them toward Thompson/CP3.

[Nowitzki Way]

I would rather play THJ at the 4 (like we have been) than give up any assets for Boucher. Don’t like his game. Don’t think he holds up against the physicality that has been the Mavs’ Achilles heel.

Also here’s a sure-fire unpopular opinion: too early to give up on GW. 

And another: stop with the back-up center talk. Maxi is our backup center.

I shared your thoughts on GWill and Maxi after this past game where they looked good. But is that over reaction?

Grant getting minutes as a 4 and Maxi at the 5, how does that help with our #1 problem? Lack of size leading to lack of rebounds and interior defense.

[Nowitzki Way]

Nobody wants to even consider this, but I honestly think the best move might just be to stand pat and get healthy. I would love to get PJ Washington, but I am not willing to move Green for him.

I will be fine if they just don’t make a bad deal.

I'm ok with not making a big trade. I dont think there is anything out there that makes us all that better.

I just want to add some size to this squad. I want a fighting chance against teams like Denver and Minny.  So something small like Grant for Portis. Or even a 2nd rounder for Drummond. We have to do something around the edges to even have a chance in the playoffs this year. But dont mortgage the future for a big swing.

[omahen]

I'm ok with not making a big trade. I dont think there is anything out there that makes us all that better.

I just want to add some size to this squad. I want a fighting chance against teams like Denver and Minny.  So something small like Grant for Portis. Or even a 2nd rounder for Drummond. We have to do something around the edges to even have a chance in the playoffs this year. But dont mortgage the future for a big swing.

I am out on back-up center completely. Powell and Maxi have been just fine (if not more) lately and Holmes also jumped in that game or two he was needed. 

Mavs need a consistent PF. DJJ is an offensive liability and teams will quickly all adapt Philly tactic from yesterday, just leaving him wide open. Some nights he did deliver, but they are somehow fading in my memory. I don't remember when it was last time when he had a really good offensive game. Mavs looked well last night when GW woke up offensively. Harris and Morris are a type of players he can defend well. So the big question is, do we need a stop-gap PF to more or less replace GW? I agree we are unlikely to get anyting better than a stop-gap solution this TDL.

[Chicagojk]

The ringer was asking if the Sixers should break it down and try to get assets for Tobias Harris? I am not sure what Philly will do, but they may have trouble staying out of the playin if Embid misses the rest of the year. I don't think a two team deal would work for Philly. Would you do a three team trade where Hardaway and Grant went out and a first and expirings wind up in Philly. Dallas gets Harris. Is that a trade that improves the team, but not enough?

[omahen]

The ringer was asking if the Sixers should break it down and try to get assets for Tobias Harris?  I am not sure what Philly will do, but they may have trouble staying out of the playin if Embid misses the rest of the year.  I don't think a two team deal would work for Philly.  Would you do a three team trade where Hardaway and Grant went out and a first and expirings wind up in Philly.  Dallas gets Harris.    Is that a trade that improves the team, but not enough?

I just saw a report that Embiid will be out at least 4 weeks, whatever that means. But Philly could be optimistic he comes back in time. 

I like Harris and I think he would be a significant upgrade. But we would need a team that would take THJ and GWill without costing us assets, as Philly would certainly require assets to trade Harris. Not sure something like that is available.

[Smitty]

It’s looking more and more that Wiggins and/or PJW will be the wings available for what the Mavs have to offer. Adding in the Gwill-Portis rumor, a trade that balances the roster and one I’d be in favor of:

Mavs: PJW, Portis
CHA: Holmes, Hardy, SRP
Bucks: Gwill, SRP


Irving - Exum - Curry
Green - THJ - Lawson*
Luka - DJJ - Omax
PJW - Portis - Morris
Lively - Maxi - Powell

THJ remains once again for bench scoring. For those that want rid of Timmy, maybe you can do a swap for Hield, if he’s really in Rick’s doghouse. Mavs still stay below the tax line.

[surfpuckmd]

I loved Herb Jones breakout post season performance his rookie year.  Was that the bubble?   

I dont know his contract details...I absolutely like his length and defense.

But man o man...his offense is worse than DFS's.   The few times I have seen him put it on the floor and try and finish at the rim has been very bad.   Maybe I just caught him at bad times.   

I would just be very worried we get another player with major fundamental flaws.   We gain size and length and defense...but I think its fair to say that Mavs need players with well rounded fundamentals.   The past 4 years we have been stuck with many rotation players that have weird fundamental warts and it seems to be a real issue even if the players fit the system.   

I like the idea of going cheaper for Jones than Wiggins....absolutely.

You're mistaken.  I'm also a Pelicans fan and Herb Jones is a better offensive player than DFS ever has been.  He's hitting 39% from 3 this season.  Unlike DFS, he can handle the ball a bit, drive to the rim and is a much better passer.

Herb Jones is one of the Pelicans four best players and the other 3 are below-average defenders.  Herb isn't available for trade.  If he was, he'd be far more costly than Andrew Wiggins.

---

It’s looking more and more that Wiggins and/or PJW will be the wings available for what the Mavs have to offer. Adding in the Gwill-Portis rumor, a trade that balances the roster and one I’d be in favor of:

Mavs: PJW, Portis
CHA: Holmes, Hardy, SRP
Bucks: Gwill, SRP


Luka - Exum - Curry
Irving - THJ - Lawson*
Green - DJJ - Omax
PJW - Portis - Morris
Lively - Maxi - Powell

THJ remains once again for bench scoring. For those that want rid of Timmy, maybe you can do a swap for Hield, if he’s really in Rick’s doghouse. Mavs still stay below the tax line.

That seems fair for all 3 teams.  It would be an underwhelming deal for us but would make us bigger and deeper in the front court.  

I would approve of that trade even though I have still have some hope for Jaden Hardy here.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Green looks like the target of most teams, I hope any trade the Mavs would do, Josh would be out of it.
JG needs to stay.

[omahen]

Green looks like the target of most teams, I hope any trade the Mavs would do, Josh would be out of it.
JG needs to stay.

Seems like Green and 2027 are best assets Mavs have. Looks like there is no serious market for THJ. Hardy imho is valued at a SRP. 23 teams passed Omax in the draft and I think he hasn't shown much to increase his valuation from the draft day. Based on that it is imho unlikely Mavs get an upgrade without using either (or both) of Green and 2027. I am fine with that.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Seems like Green and 2027 are best assets Mavs have. Looks like there is no serious market for THJ. Hardy imho is valued at a SRP. 23 teams passed Omax in the draft and I think he hasn't shown much to increase his valuation from the draft day. Based on that it is imho unlikely Mavs get an upgrade without using either (or both) of Green and 2027. I am fine with that.

I'm nitpicking but it was only 17 teams that actually passed on OMax.  The Celtics were very interested and us trading back in to the draft is what caused them to started trading down like crazy.  I do think OMax has trade value, at least more than Hardy.

[Chicagojk]

Seems like Green and 2027 are best assets Mavs have. Looks like there is no serious market for THJ. Hardy imho is valued at a SRP. 23 teams passed Omax in the draft and I think he hasn't shown much to increase his valuation from the draft day. Based on that it is imho unlikely Mavs get an upgrade without using either (or both) of Green and 2027. I am fine with that.

I think so.  I hope the Mavs don't panic.   Hopefully they put themselves in a position where a team gets to the trade deadline and offers are not to their liking but decide to trade on a discount.  It probably won't happen.
 

If not, we should hope there is not a lot of trades at the deadline.  This summer Dallas may be able to get one of these guys we are talking about plus another equal/higher tier player with their picks and expiring's.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Adding in the Gwill-Portis rumor, a trade that balances the roster and one I’d be in favor of:

Mavs: PJW, Portis
CHA: Holmes, Hardy, SRP
Bucks: Gwill, SRP

I think the resulting lineup is good.  Bucks have apparently said they want more than GWill for Portis.  Do we think a second round pick moves the needle?

Is Hardy and a second enough for Charlotte to both eat Holmes and give us PJ?

Both deals feel light to me.  Do you do the same construct if Hardy goes to Milwaukee and our 2027 first goes to Charlotte and we keep our seconds (and Charlotte also takes Pat Connaughton)?  That starts to feel painful for Dallas...essentially 2027 and Hardy to upgrade from GWill to PJ and upgrade from Holmes to Portis.  But, a little bit painful is probably what it takes.

[Smitty]

I think the resulting lineup is good.  Bucks have apparently said they want more than GWill for Portis.  Do we think a second round pick moves the needle?

Is Hardy and a second enough for Charlotte to both eat Holmes and give us PJ?

Both deals feel light to me.  Do you do the same construct if Hardy goes to Milwaukee and our 2027 first goes to Charlotte and we keep our seconds (and Charlotte also takes Pat Connaughton)?  That starts to feel painful for Dallas...essentially 2027 and Hardy to upgrade from GWill to PJ and upgrade from Holmes to Portis.  But, a little bit painful is probably what it takes.

I thought about almost this exact thing as a “worst case” and couldn’t decide if I pull the trigger or not. I really like PJW and think he would fit really well with Luka-Kai and I also really dislike GWill. 

I don’t know that the Mavs could do any better and I don’t want them to waste a Luka MVP year, so for those reasons, as a fan, I’d probably do it.

Edit: in my worst case scenario I had exactly what you laid out except Mavs sending the ‘27 FRP but getting back a SRP or two. A Nico special.

[vfromlmf]

I'm not wild about any deal that doesn't turn THJ into a longer, more physical, more athletic starting Forward.

I'm totally fine with GWill and DJJ as backups but if Dallas is starting and closing games with Luka, Kyrie, Exum/Green, and Lively, the lineup needs more length and athleticism than GWill can offer and more physicality and floor spacing than DJJ can offer.

We should be able to land one of Kuz, Wiggins, PJ or similar with some combination of THJ, Hardy, OMAX, 1st and filler. A deal has to start with THJ. It's just a matter of how more much we give.

[Nowitzki Way]

This might end up being the slowest trade deadline in a long time.

[mvossman]

I think the resulting lineup is good.  Bucks have apparently said they want more than GWill for Portis.  Do we think a second round pick moves the needle?

Is Hardy and a second enough for Charlotte to both eat Holmes and give us PJ?

Both deals feel light to me.  Do you do the same construct if Hardy goes to Milwaukee and our 2027 first goes to Charlotte and we keep our seconds (and Charlotte also takes Pat Connaughton)?  That starts to feel painful for Dallas...essentially 2027 and Hardy to upgrade from GWill to PJ and upgrade from Holmes to Portis.  But, a little bit painful is probably what it takes.

Yep.  I find if there is a trade I would definitely do, its probably too light on our side.  

I find myself fully in Omahen's camp.  We need to add a high level starting forward to this team.  That feels like the missing piece.  If the lineup Lively/???/Luka/Kyrie looks like a contender to me, then we should pay assets for that piece.  That player does not need to be a star, just a legit two way player.  I've been more than vocal that I don't think Kuz makes that a contending lineup due to defensive and offensive efficiency concerns.  I feel the same way about PJ.  Siakam or OG would have made that a contending lineup (maybe not this season, but by next season with a few more tweaks).  Using assets to bring in a starting forward now that we will likely need to upgrade in order to contend does not make a lot of sense.  

It makes even less sense to spend assets for a backup big.  After a rough start to the season, Powell has actually been good, and now we are seeing signs of life with Maxi.  Anything more than a second is wasting assets.