Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

Part of the hype is over the top for comedic effect, as I'm sure you realize. 

But, while I agree with some of your POV here, I stand by the concept that his is an athletic/body style profile that's just so freaking hard to find. 

Doing the trade again...hmm. I suppose it depends on whether they expected anything from Holmes. I didn't, so I'd do it again (at this point). Not sure about the Mavs though.

All that athletic/ profile still doesn't mean he's going to be a good player. I maintain my stance that he's a project. If he improves great. Same for Josh Green. He's athletic with good size for a 3&D wing. But he's  4 year's in, and still hasn't taken the jump that was expected of him.

[Smitty]

All that athletic/ profile still doesn't mean he's going to be a good player. I maintain my stance that he's a project. If he improves great. Same for Josh Green. He's athletic with good size for a 3&D wing. But he's  4 year's in, and still hasn't taken the jump that was expected of him.

Since returning from injury, Green has been pretty good. Still the only POA defender on the team with Exum being out and shooting 47.3% from 3 in the last 10.

[ItsGoTime]

I think Murray is a very good player and could fit next to Luka. However, a couple of things about that. 

I think Kyrie is a better player and Mavs should be compensated in addition to just getting Murray. But, LA doesn't have the assets to get Murray on his own. Perhaps in the summer, when they can offer 2 picks (2029 and 2031).

Murrays rumored biggest issue in Atlanta was that he wasn't the PG. He would have same problem in Dallas.

After the 24 draft they have their 25 and 26 so can trade 25 as well. With our assets and theirs, we might have enough to trade Kyrie and get back Lauri and Murray.

[KillerLeft]

All that athletic/ profile still doesn't mean he's going to be a good player. I maintain my stance that he's a project. If he improves great. 

Oh, for sure! 

But, it's a better risk to bet on him than most, imo. If he hits, you have a STUD, not just a good player. And honestly, I'm suspicious that the log jam at the 4 I'm worried about after all these hypothetical trades isn't holding him back right now just as much as any rawness. If Williams makes it past the TDL and is still playing this poorly (which I'm still surprised about) I don't think it's crazy to start expecting to see O-Max push him for minutes.

[SleepingHero]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) on X
Signs point to the Magic keeping Wendell Carter Jr. instead of making him available ahead of the trade deadline, per @WindhorstESPN (https://t.co/eUVXDVl2s9).

Multiple teams would be interested, but Orlando intends to keep Carter Jr. around.

[Mavs2021]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) on X
Signs point to the Magic keeping Wendell Carter Jr. instead of making him available ahead of the trade deadline, per @WindhorstESPN (https://t.co/eUVXDVl2s9).

Multiple teams would be interested, but Orlando intends to keep Carter Jr. around.

Well then we have to get Hartenstein, Bitadze or Jalen Smith with the MLE in the summer. Actually we should probably find a way to get two of them.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Hartenstein should make some decent money finally. Since he’s doing it in NY, people are noticing how good he is. Figured losing Mitchell Robinson would be a big blow but they haven’t missed a beat.

[SleepingHero]

Hartenstein should make some decent money finally. Since he’s doing it in NY, people are noticing how good he is. Figured losing Mitchell Robinson would be a big blow but they haven’t missed a beat.

What even is big money for a backup center that doesn't really have any sort of offensive game outside of finishing lobs, but can play ok defense and rebound well?

8 mil? 15 mil?

[omahen]

What even is big money for a backup center that doesn't really have any sort of offensive game outside of finishing lobs, but can play ok defense and rebound well?

8 mil? 15 mil?

I think it is not more than MLE

[meistermatze]

Not sure Kyrie really is a great fit. On one hand it is great that he is capable of leading the team by himself while also playing the second fiddle to Luka. On the other hand, constructing a workable defense around Luka and Kyrie will be extremely difficult. Not to mention Kyrie is already 32. I think it is a very binary option. Either you go all in constructing a team around them in an effort to win in a year or two, or you trade him. I am fully aware Mavs will not trade him at TDL. Summer though...

I think we should put an end to this myth about it being difficult to build a defense around Luka and Kyrie. It is pretty easy, as we have two pieces already in check: A long but quick and mobile Center and two athletic 3&D-guys. G-Will is that on a good day, same with DJJ, but both are not reliable enough to fit that description. Same goes for Exum and Green. Size is also an issue for all of them. Lively is here to stay and only getting better.

We haven't seen this roster healthy, yet, but it should be possible to have 2-3 quality defenders surrounding Luka and Kyrie most of the time and it should not be that hard, to find somebody who even better fits that description in the future.

Kyrie is undersized, but so is every PG in this league. For his size, he is decent because he tries. Like I said, you got the same problem with every offensive-minded PG. Luka on the other hand is just lack of trying during the regular season or when he tries to save energy or to shout at the officials. If he wants and needs to, he plays EXCELLENT one-on-one defense and is long enough to rotate in scramble situations. Bith players are not unique in this respect. It is just a matter of getting those players that I described, which the Front Office failed to deliver (they tried and failed with Richardson, Bullock, and Williams (so far).

I understand that it would be preferable to field a quality defensive lineup throughout the whole game but this is not possible, if you have offensive talent like Luka. You will always score with him. It is about to be able to get stops if you need them and that's where those 5 pieces have to fall into place. And we are not that far off because 3&D-type players do exist on the market.

[omahen]

I think we should put an end to this myth about it being difficult to build a defense around Luka and Kyrie.

The simple fact is, that Mavs defense is bad. Other than some short stretches, Mavs defense was close to non existent. Mavs defense was also bad in all playoff battles in Luka era. No data on this in Luka-Kyrie era, obviously. Unfortunately, Mavs never added any all NBA defenders next to Luka, so it is just a theoretical discussion how good defense could be, if...

[meistermatze]

The defense has been mostly bad, but not in Kidd's first season when we made thw WCF. DoDo was the closest thing we had to an All-NBA-Defender. My argument is: Players like this exist. The MBT has not been ablte to provide one or more of these players. We have some that kind of check the box, but not really (Williams, DDJ, Green, Exum). My argument concludes, that the reason for this is not that it is difficult to build around Luka and Kyrie but that the management just has not provided thise kind of players. So do you agree or disagree, that it is a myth do build good defense around Luka and Kyrie?

[omahen]

The defense has been mostly bad, but not in Kidd's first season when we made thw WCF.  DoDo was the closest thing we had to an All-NBA-Defender. My argument is: Players like this exist. The MBT has not been ablte to provide one or more of these players. We have some that kind of check the box, but not really (Williams, DDJ, Green, Exum). My argument concludes, that the reason for this is not that it is difficult to build around Luka and Kyrie but that the management just has not provided thise kind of players. So do you agree or disagree, that it is a myth do build good defense around Luka and Kyrie?

I believe decent enough defense could be constructed next to Luka and Kyrie. But it takes specific players and there are only so many specific players available. So far, Mavs have been unable to actually get one. I think we know we need the big wing as neither GW or DJJ seem like good enough solutions. I am not sure if Green and Exum are a good solution at the other wing (or guard), but we will decide about that once we get the big wing.

[meistermatze]

Agreed. I just think we disagree on how many prototypical players like this do exist. It is not that they don't exist, it is just that the Front Office just decided too late to prioritize them.

[JamesConway912]

Andrew Wiggins makes sense. Obviously he’s been struggling for most of the year since his return from the rib injury but that guy is still in the middle of his prime. Stringed together three very good games lately.

If he’s there for a salary dump it’s a solid option. Just exactly what we neeed. An athletic wing who can defend and shoot, even create a bit.

Prime Kawhi isn’t in the cards with our assets and Omax is far away from being a rotation player right now given how they (do not) use him.

Irving
Green
Wiggins
Doncic
Lively

would be a really good group. We’d need to replicate whatever Steph and Kerr did in Wiggins early GS day and keep him in his lane but once that’s done you’re looking at a serious upgrade for our wing rotation.

[Branduil]

Wiggins is a headcase, we need zero more of those.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Andrew Wiggins makes sense. 

Irving
Green
Wiggins
Doncic
Lively

Saw this on Discord.  I believe Smitty is compiling posts from Cjeter.  Everyone is suddenly playing well.  It is like washing the old car you are thinking about trading in for a new car.  Suddenly, now clean, the old car doesn't seem that bad.  Especially when you consider the cost of the new car:


“Timmy is now averaging 22.3 on over 46% and 43% shooting in the last 10 games after last night”

“Andrew Wiggins in the 5 games since Draymond Green's return: 18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 61.1 FG%, 43.8 3P%, 81.0 FT%”

PJ wash in the last 5 games: 19.0/3.8/3.0, 58.7 FG%, 50.0 3P% (15/30), 1.2 BLKS, 1.4 TO per game

Kuzma in the last 10 games: 19.5/8.6/5.3, 43.0 FG%, 25.0 3P% (16/64), 1.0 BLKS, 2.7 TO per game.

DFS in the last 10 games: 6.5/4.4/2.0, 32.8 FG%, 30.0 3P% (15/50), 1.0 BLKS, 0.9 TO per game.

[JamesConway912]

Saw this on Discord.  I believe Smitty is compiling posts from Cjeter.  Everyone is suddenly playing well.  It is like washing the old car you are thinking about trading in for a new car.  Suddenly, now clean, the old car doesn't seem that bad.  Especially when you consider the cost of the new car:


“Timmy is now averaging 22.3 on over 46% and 43% shooting in the last 10 games after last night”

“Andrew Wiggins in the 5 games since Draymond Green's return: 18.0 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 61.1 FG%, 43.8 3P%, 81.0 FT%”

PJ wash in the last 5 games: 19.0/3.8/3.0, 58.7 FG%, 50.0 3P% (15/30), 1.2 BLKS, 1.4 TO per game

Kuzma in the last 10 games: 19.5/8.6/5.3, 43.0 FG%, 25.0 3P% (16/64), 1.0 BLKS, 2.7 TO per game.

DFS in the last 10 games: 6.5/4.4/2.0, 32.8 FG%, 30.0 3P% (15/50), 1.0 BLKS, 0.9 TO per game.

Only one of those guys is a 6’7 two way wing player who was arguably the second best player on a team that won the chip less than 24 months ago. 

I like DFS as well but he has never been close to that level. He’s an a lot more stagnant player on the offensive end.

Kuzma isn’t a winning player Imo, don’t want him here at all due to his defense.

PJ isn’t a sure thing either but a promising player with upside at a position of need, I wouldn’t mind bringing him ieither (Id even argue he can play alongside Wiggins here pretty darn well too)

Hardaway has made some progress as a shot creator but we know how limited he is. I’d try to utilize him in a trade to get more size on the wing / at forward.

[omahen]

Only one of those guys is a 6’7 two way wing player who was arguably the second best player on a team that won the chip less than 24 months ago. 

I like DFS as well but he has never been close to that level. He’s an a lot more stagnant player on the offensive end.

Kuzma isn’t a winning player Imo, don’t want him here at all due to his defense.

PJ isn’t a sure thing either but a promising player with upside at a position of need, I wouldn’t mind bringing him ieither (Id even argue he can play alongside Wiggins here pretty darn well too)

Hardaway has made some progress as a shot creator but we know how limited he is. I’d try to utilize him in a trade to get more size on the wing / at forward.

Fully agree with your assessment. I just don't have a strong opinion on Kuzma and would be willing to give it a try with a positive attitude. PJ I like if he doesn't cost the 2027, but I doubt you can make this move without the pick. Totally agree on THJ - sell high while you can, summer at latest.

I think Wiggins is far from the final missing piece. But what got me thinking was, if you could also get the big wing, lets say Grant. Wiggins and Grant next to Luka, Kyrie and Lively could make a very dangerous and well constructed line-up.

But, as we could saw from the article yesterday. GSW will not just gift Wiggins away and I would certainly not pay asset(s) for him. They can solve their cap issues in other ways. So all the discussion is pretty much theoretical.

[omahen]

Don't we have an Eason fan around here? New York interested in him

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/statu...0828526989