Trade & FA 2023-24: ATL Open to Trading Trae Much More Now After Lottery

[F Gump]

Not only did I consider those things, I explicitly said so in the post. The part in parentheses. You guys don’t have to agree, but I believe there is going to be endless bitching and moaning during the summer when that pick gets made.

I think you're way wrong. 

"Not only did I consider those things, I explicitly said so in the post. ".... You really didn't truly consider those things. You gave lip service to them, then clearly treated them as being impossible. when it's incredibly likely that one, or even both, of those will come into play.

Look, I get it, YOU have criteria for trading picks, and didn't think this met your criteria. That's fine. But you are saying ALL of us endorse your criteria, so that ALL will evaluate like you in 2029, and that's what I see as 100% nonsense.

And if you think things like that can't possibly matter, then you aren't paying attention to how Mavs fans respond to having a pick traded.

We were without a pick the summer after Luka, and it was a top-10 pick. No one really cared, frankly.

The same came when the 1st pick for KP was made, even though KP's production had been spotty. And even now, do we wish the Mavs had not rolled the dice? Or are we yearning for Keon Johnson, whoever that is? Crappy picks are not missed.

YOU guaranteed that "100%" of Mavs fandom would whine about the 2029 pick. Yet if it's Moe Ager Jr, and it could be, it will be closer to 0%. Or if Kyrie has helped Luka propel the Mavs to a Finals run, same thing -- no one will be bothered. You know it, I know it, we all know it. And I know you're not guaranteeing Mavs world will cave into total and persistent nothingness soon, are you?

It's not about the picks for most of us. We just see them as tools, and it's about the results. We all operate in that mindset (except perhaps you), and no one (including you) knows what the results will be for the Mavs in 4-5 years. Let's see what happens.

[omahen]

As for whether a deal can get done without a 1st, I think ATL proactively wants to move him. Must find a deal. Move on. 

There was not a single indication about that. In fact, Atlanta didn't want to trade Capela for a pick swap and demanded Green also. I don't think things have changed much since draft.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of smoke that Mavs are interested in Capela.

[F Gump]

There was not a single indication about that. In fact, Atlanta didn't want to trade Capela for a pick swap and demanded Green also. I don't think things have changed much since draft.

On the other hand, there has been plenty of smoke that Mavs are interested in Capela.

Actually I think there have been many signals that ATL wants to move to OO. (If you don't perceive things the same, so be it.) And when you say "there has been plenty of smoke that Mavs are interested in Capela" without also seeing and noting ATL's role in creating that interest, and that smoke, then I think you are missing a lot of the landscape.

But one clear point -- the fact that they asked for more in those talks is NOT telling us they truly want to keep him now. Or ever wanted to keep him. Objectively it only tells us that CC was definitely available then, at a certain price, that was more than the Mavs were willing to pay (at the time). The Mavs are in a holding pattern on Holmes now, but we'll see if this heats up again in the next month or so.

[omahen]

Actually I think there have been many signals that ATL wants to move to OO. (If you don't perceive things the same, so be it.) And when you say "there has been plenty of smoke that Mavs are interested in Capela" without also seeing and noting ATL's role in creating that interest, and that smoke, then I think you are missing a lot of the landscape.

But one clear point -- the fact that they asked for more in those talks is NOT telling us they truly want to keep him now. Or ever wanted to keep him. Objectively it only tells us that CC was definitely available then, at a certain price, that was more than the Mavs were willing to pay (at the time). The Mavs are in a holding pattern on Holmes now, but we'll see if this heats up again in the next month or so.

Atlanta offered Collins. Mavs wanted Capela. Atlanta didn't like that much. Mavs revisited talks many times. This is the way I see those talks went. Besides Dallas, I didn't see any smoke and I don't interpret that as in not any other team has any interest at all. It indicates to me that Dallas is the one pushing the talks. Sure, I may be wrong. Atlanta would like to feature OO more, but they already "lost" one frontcort player. I don't think they can afford to lose another one without one serious frontcourt guy coming in (Siakam or KAT). Okongwu can play next to either of them.

I think Atlanta is willing to trade basically anyone not named Trae or Murray to improve the team. Problem with the Holmes (or McGee or even THJ) ideas is, that they don't improve the team doing that trade. But they are not pressed to move anyone just to save money (already covered that by dumping Collins). That is why I don't see this deal being done without some asset going to Atlanta. I don't think Atlantas new FO can afford to dump two starters for nothing while the team wants to compete.

Also to note. Green and Okongwu didn't sign extensions yet. So perhaps both teams are more open to moving them than they publicly admit. I don't mean like actively shopping them. But willing to trade them for the right player.

[KillerLeft]

I think you're way wrong. 

"Not only did I consider those things, I explicitly said so in the post. ".... You really didn't truly consider those things. You gave lip service to them, then clearly treated them as being impossible. when it's incredibly likely that one, or even both, of those will come into play.

Look, I get it, YOU have criteria for trading picks, and didn't think this met your criteria. That's fine. But you are saying ALL of us endorse your criteria, so that ALL will evaluate like you in 2029, and that's what I see as 100% nonsense.

And if you think things like that can't possibly matter, then you aren't paying attention to how Mavs fans respond to having a pick traded.

We were without a pick the summer after Luka, and it was a top-10 pick. No one really cared, frankly.

The same came when the 1st pick for KP was made, even though KP's production had been spotty. And even now, do we wish the Mavs had not rolled the dice? Or are we yearning for Keon Johnson, whoever that is? Crappy picks are not missed.

YOU guaranteed that "100%" of Mavs fandom would whine about the 2029 pick. Yet if it's Moe Ager Jr, and it could be, it will be closer to 0%. Or if Kyrie has helped Luka propel the Mavs to a Finals run, same thing -- no one will be bothered. You know it, I know it, we all know it. And I know you're not guaranteeing Mavs world will cave into total and persistent nothingness soon, are you?

It's not about the picks for most of us. We just see them as tools, and it's about the results. We all operate in that mindset (except perhaps you), and no one (including you) knows what the results will be for the Mavs in 4-5 years. Let's see what happens.

I must not have articulated my thinking very clearly, because what you’re arguing against is mostly not representative of it.

I agree with a ton of the above. Most, actually.

Where I differ is that yes, I do wish the Mavs had not rolled the dice on KP. I didn’t call that one beforehand, so this is definitely dependent on hindsight, but that big miss has helped open my eyes to the risks involved in these trades. I would MUCH rather have the players those picks will become (or better yet, the chance to use the picks in an actual good deal) than the memory of watching Porzingis fail here. 

You want the Mavs to identify talent and then negotiate better than other teams. You’re always talking about it. I agree. Simply put, I want them to get those “big swings” RIGHT.

I am not about hoarding picks. I see them as tools, too. Tools that need to be chosen at the right time to do the right job. 

I am saying that once the Mavs do not win a championship with Luka/Kyrie, and maybe even if they do, THAT summer is going to be frustrating in that it will be yet another lean asset situation that they’ll have to work around, long after he’s gone. I don’t believe in the pairing enough to have pulled the trigger on it (though will root for him while he’s here). The example you use about the year after Luka’s draft isn’t really comparable, Imo, because we were all looking at the face of the franchise grow and entertain us. WORTH IT. A top-10 pick years after the trade target is gone? Ridiculous, imo. Maybe the Mavs will still be great at that time and it will be an inconsequential pick. In that event, it won’t be so bad, and I’m sure that’s what they’re hoping. Too much risk for me. 

2011 was amazing. It didn’t stop all of us (and make no mistake - we were all in this boat at some point) from feeling super down about the wheel-spinning DECADE that followed. I wish I could bookmark this so we could refer back once the Kyrie era is over, because I’ll be mildly surprised if anyone even cares he was ever here by the time that pick gets made. Fans are “what’s next” creatures.

What I’d like to see is a team that consistently makes smart decisions and executes them to a level better than the competition. That is, I believe, what you want, too.

[KillerLeft]

Atlanta offered Collins. Mavs wanted Capela. Atlanta didn't like that much. Mavs revisited talks many times. This is the way I see those talks went. Besides Dallas, I didn't see any smoke and I don't interpret that as in not any other team has any interest at all. It indicates to me that Dallas is the one pushing the talks. Sure, I may be wrong. Atlanta would like to feature OO more, but they already "lost" one frontcort player. I don't think they can afford to lose another one without one serious frontcourt guy coming in (Siakam or KAT). Okongwu can play next to either of them.

I think Atlanta is willing to trade basically anyone not named Trae or Murray to improve the team. Problem with the Holmes (or McGee or even THJ) ideas is, that they don't improve the team doing that trade. But they are not pressed to move anyone just to save money (already covered that by dumping Collins). That is why I don't see this deal being done without some asset going to Atlanta. I don't think Atlantas new FO can afford to dump two starters for nothing while the team wants to compete.

Also to note. Green and Okongwu didn't sign extensions yet. So perhaps both teams are more open to moving them than they publicly admit. I don't mean like actively shopping them. But willing to trade them for the right player.

I see both sides of this debate you two are having. I agree with elements of both perspectives.

But, just to add: it’s out there in multiple places that ATL is still trying to reduce payroll. Not sure if it’s true, but it’s out there. Possibly in preparation for the hasn’t-happened-yet extension you mentioned?

I also agree with FGump’s point earlier about just benching a starter, particularly a highly paid one, in favor of the new up and comer…doesn’t really work that way in real life. If ATL thinks OO is ready, they’ll find a way to move Capela, though I agree with you that they’d be loathe to give him away for nothing.

[Jym]

I must not have articulated my thinking very clearly, because what you’re arguing against is mostly not representative of it.

I agree with a ton of the above. Most, actually.

Where I differ is that yes, I do wish the Mavs had not rolled the dice on KP. I didn’t call that one beforehand, so this is definitely dependent on hindsight, but that big miss has helped open my eyes to the risks involved in these trades. I would MUCH rather have the players those picks will become (or better yet, the chance to use the picks in an actual good deal) than the memory of watching Porzingis fail here. 

You want the Mavs to identify talent and then negotiate better than other teams. You’re always talking about it. I agree. Simply put, I want them to get those “big swings” RIGHT.

I am not about hoarding picks. I see them as tools, too. Tools that need to be chosen at the right time to do the right job. 

I am saying that once the Mavs do not win a championship with Luka/Kyrie, and maybe even if they do, THAT summer is going to be frustrating in that it will be yet another lean asset situation that they’ll have to work around, long after he’s gone. I don’t believe in the pairing enough to have pulled the trigger on it (though will root for him while he’s here). The example you use about the year after Luka’s draft isn’t really comparable, Imo, because we were all looking at the face of the franchise grow and entertain us. WORTH IT. A top-10 pick years after the trade target is gone? Ridiculous, imo. Maybe the Mavs will still be great at that time and it will be an inconsequential pick. In that event, it won’t be so bad, and I’m sure that’s what they’re hoping. Too much risk for me. 

2011 was amazing. It didn’t stop all of us (and make no mistake - we were all in this boat at some point) from feeling super down about the wheel-spinning DECADE that followed. I wish I could bookmark this so we could refer back once the Kyrie era is over, because I’ll be mildly surprised if anyone even cares he was ever here by the time that pick gets made. Fans are “what’s next” creatures.

What I’d like to see is a team that consistently makes smart decisions and executes them to a level better than the competition. That is, I believe, what you want, too.

We'll see how long it takes for Kyrie to Kyrie himself out of here.
Someone longer term would have been nice, but it's hard for me to argue with the price we paid if he opts into that 3rd year and is headache free while he's here. We'll see if that happens. But if it does that's just about the smallest package you could imagine giving up for several years of a top 20ish player. His iffiness is exactly why he was so cheap

[F Gump]

KL, I understand your general point, and respect your opinion on what's ahead (even though I have my doubts on its accuracy). But I disagree with your claimed ability to predict the future opinions of the rest of us, and base it on the reliability of your predictions of what will happen with the Mavs from now until the end of the decade. There's a lot you are certain about, way beyond Kyrie, all of which has to happen in order to disillusion the entirety of Mavs fandom. I think that's way too arrogant - no one is that insightful.

I actually think there's a real possibility that the Kyrie trade may one day be seen as the trade that changed the entire direction of the franchise for the next decade or more, in a good way. If you had a superstar starting to lose hope, and fans too, would you invest a single future asset that may (or may not) be desirable way on down the line, to remove that black cloud and offer hope? The Brunson fiasco really took the legs right out from under this team that was just about to be a force, with only needing to add a piece or two. 

This franchise looked dead, even with Luka. How do you change that, and quickly?

The gravity of a 2nd star player, properly integrated into the mix, offers something game-changing. Just put some defense and toughness around those offensive 2 stars, and I think it can be a completely different world. We'll see.

[Jmaciscool]

I must not have articulated my thinking very clearly, because what you’re arguing against is mostly not representative of it.

I agree with a ton of the above. Most, actually.

Where I differ is that yes, I do wish the Mavs had not rolled the dice on KP. I didn’t call that one beforehand, so this is definitely dependent on hindsight, but that big miss has helped open my eyes to the risks involved in these trades. I would MUCH rather have the players those picks will become (or better yet, the chance to use the picks in an actual good deal) than the memory of watching Porzingis fail here. 

You want the Mavs to identify talent and then negotiate better than other teams. You’re always talking about it. I agree. Simply put, I want them to get those “big swings” RIGHT.

I am not about hoarding picks. I see them as tools, too. Tools that need to be chosen at the right time to do the right job. 

I am saying that once the Mavs do not win a championship with Luka/Kyrie, and maybe even if they do, THAT summer is going to be frustrating in that it will be yet another lean asset situation that they’ll have to work around, long after he’s gone. I don’t believe in the pairing enough to have pulled the trigger on it (though will root for him while he’s here). The example you use about the year after Luka’s draft isn’t really comparable, Imo, because we were all looking at the face of the franchise grow and entertain us. WORTH IT. A top-10 pick years after the trade target is gone? Ridiculous, imo. Maybe the Mavs will still be great at that time and it will be an inconsequential pick. In that event, it won’t be so bad, and I’m sure that’s what they’re hoping. Too much risk for me. 

2011 was amazing. It didn’t stop all of us (and make no mistake - we were all in this boat at some point) from feeling super down about the wheel-spinning DECADE that followed. I wish I could bookmark this so we could refer back once the Kyrie era is over, because I’ll be mildly surprised if anyone even cares he was ever here by the time that pick gets made. Fans are “what’s next” creatures.

What I’d like to see is a team that consistently makes smart decisions and executes them to a level better than the competition. That is, I believe, what you want, too.

I see what you're saying, but I would contend that IF the Kyrie trade led to a championship (or maybe even "just" a finals appearance) then the vast majority of Mavs fans would have no issue with that pick cost even if it turned out to be a high pick. 

To me the post 2011 negativity was centered around the dismantling of the championship team and subsequent failures of replacing the talent they lost, not about any costs associated with building that championship team in the first place.

Totally agree with you about the high risk of the Kyrie trade, just not as convinced that it will lead to losing a top pick since so much (good or bad) can happen between then and now.

[ItsGoTime]

For context, I personally value that, specific pick more in a cold, value sense than I value Hardy or Green. I am not excited at the idea of losing either of them, but I’d much rather move either if I have to lose something big than this pick. I did NOT feel that way about the pick they wasted last year on Wood.

Ok this statement does put everything into context for me. I don’t value that pick as much as the guys who have shown the ability to be something in the league. 

The value of the pick to me at this point? Somewhere in the 20’s, cause I’m gonna do my best to keep putting the best team around my 2 stars every year. I understand that I will not be 100% on all deals I do going forward, that’s why when the opportunity like this that upgrades the team in such a significant way is so important. 

Yes, I do think that adding Capela to the group we have is a significant improvement. He literally is exactly the type of guy they are talking about when they have been saying for 2 offseasons, we’re going to improve our rim protection and rebounding. There are other, better options, but none of them seem to be available.

[MFFL]

They have been on a sneakily good run with the draft recently, haven't they? 

Luka/Brunson
Green/Terry/Bey
Hardy
Lively/O-Max

That's a possible 6/8 hits. All six aren't likely to be exactly what we hope, but just being usable rotation players in the league makes this the best run in the draft since I've been a fan.

I think you missed a few

2018
Luka Doncic [1st rd - 3rd overall]
Jalen Brunson [2nd rd - 33rd overall]
Ray Spalding [2nd rd - 56th overall]
Kostas Antetokounmpo [2nd rd - 80th overall]

2019
Isaiah Roby [2nd rd - 45th overall]

2020
Josh Green [1st rd - 18th overall]
Tyrell Terry [2nd rd - 31st overall]
Tyler Bey [2nd rd - 36th overall]

2022
Jaden Hardy [2nd rd - 37th overall]

2023
Dereck Lively II  [1st rd - 12th overall]
Olivier-Maxence Prosper [1st rd - 24th overall]

But 6 out of 11 is amazing - especially since only 1 was a prime pick

[ItsGoTime]

I think you missed a few

2018
Luka Doncic [1st rd - 3rd overall]
Jalen Brunson [2nd rd - 33rd overall]
Ray Spalding [2nd rd - 56th overall]
Kostas Antetokounmpo [2nd rd - 80th overall]

2019
Isaiah Roby [2nd rd - 45th overall]

2020
Josh Green [1st rd - 18th overall]
Tyrell Terry [2nd rd - 31st overall]
Tyler Bey [2nd rd - 36th overall]

2022
Jaden Hardy [2nd rd - 37th overall]

2023
Dereck Lively II  [1st rd - 12th overall]
Olivier-Maxence Prosper [1st rd - 24th overall]

But 6 out of 11 is amazing - especially since only 1 was a prime pick

I wouldn’t mind Roby back on the team either. 6.5 out of 11?

[RDB]

I’m annoyed at the situation right now with that outstanding pick to NY for Porzingis. We all thought that was a no-brainer at the time (including me), but I’ll be damned if they aren’t having to work around a pick owed long after the guy is even on the team. To me, that’s a real drag.

I’m not disputing your right to be annoyed, just pointing out a flaw of hindsight with many on these boards.  If it is true that 100% of the people on this board will be pissed/annoyed, it is more about not owning the original opinions and using hindsight as the basis for the new positions.  I’ll point it back at me instead of others as it applies to me as well.

I can’t fault the Mav’s for the Porzingis trade as I was onboard with it at the time.  If memory serves me correctly, many of the talking heads also thought the Mav’s pulled off a great trade and I THINK many questioned why he wasn’t shopped for a better deal (memory was it came out of left field but I may be remembering that wrong).

While I am a little more critical of the Brunson fiasco because IMO, the Mav’s should have had a better read, in no world did I see Brunson turning out the way he has from where he was at the the TDL, which is where I believe things started to go south in the relationship.  I liked Brunson more than most on this board but at that time, I still had questions around his upside, team and Luka fit, defense, and his value relative to the cost to retain.  If we are being honest, many had the same questions at the time.  In one case (Porzingis), many are upset we made the move.  In the other (Brunson), many are upset we didn’t.  Both are operating from a position of hindsight.

Bottom line is that it would be intellectually dishonest for me to overly bash the team for moves that in hindsight turned out different than I hoped when I was very happy with one  and conflicted on the other at the time the decision was made.  Is it annoying that Porzingis has and still influences our flexibility moving forward?  Sure…but I don’t blame the Mav’s.  Is watching Brunson’s continued development annoying, absolutely and I am a little less forgiving on that one as they had him from the get go.

Everyone has their opinions on Capela and where the Mav’s are.  Personally, I believe the Mav’s are much closer than I thought they would be.  I also believe they are another year away from being legit contenders and will likely need flexibility to take the next step.  To me, trading the ‘27 pick for Capela would be reverting back to the Mav’s old ways of thinking.  

I like Capela and think he improves the team but not at the cost of the ‘27 pick. I don’t think he changes the contention timeline or improves our odds of taking the next step.  If others feel he is the missing piece, then I can understand their conviction for making the move.  Just own the ultimate outcome, good or bad and don’t let hindsight cloud your future positions.

[omahen]

I’m not disputing your right to be annoyed, just pointing out a flaw of hindsight with many on these boards.  If it is true that 100% of the people on this board will be pissed/annoyed, it is more about not owning the original opinions and using hindsight as the basis for the new positions.  I’ll point it back at me instead of others as it applies to me as well.

I can’t fault the Mav’s for the Porzingis trade as I was onboard with it at the time.  If memory serves me correctly, many of the talking heads also thought the Mav’s pulled off a great trade and I THINK many questioned why he wasn’t shopped for a better deal (memory was it came out of left field but I may be remembering that wrong).

While I am a little more critical of the Brunson fiasco because IMO, the Mav’s should have had a better read, in no world did I see Brunson turning out the way he has from where he was at the the TDL, which is where I believe things started to go south in the relationship.  I liked Brunson more than most on this board but at that time, I still had questions around his upside, team and Luka fit, defense, and his value relative to the cost to retain.  If we are being honest, many had the same questions at the time.  In one case (Porzingis), many are upset we made the move.  In the other (Brunson), many are upset we didn’t.  Both are operating from a position of hindsight.

Bottom line is that it would be intellectually dishonest for me to overly bash the team for moves that in hindsight turned out different than I hoped when I was very happy with one  and conflicted on the other at the time the decision was made.  Is it annoying that Porzingis has and still influences our flexibility moving forward?  Sure…but I don’t blame the Mav’s.  Is watching Brunson’s continued development annoying, absolutely and I am a little less forgiving on that one as they had him from the get go.

Everyone has their opinions on Capela and where the Mav’s are.  Personally, I believe the Mav’s are much closer than I thought they would be.  I also believe they are another year away from being legit contenders and will likely need flexibility to take the next step.  To me, trading the ‘27 pick for Capela would be reverting back to the Mav’s old ways of thinking.  

I like Capela and think he improves the team but not at the cost of the ‘27 pick. I don’t think he changes the contention timeline or improves our odds of taking the next step.  If others feel he is the missing piece, then I can understand their conviction for making the move.  Just own the ultimate outcome, good or bad and don’t let hindsight cloud your future positions.

What I think you are missing in your thinking is, that Mavs have tons more information. We watch games and some stats. It is perfectly understandable that a fan doesn't have much information how a certain player will develop.  Mavs live with those guys 24/7. They should know, especially about Brunson. No excuses there. 

I don't think anyone actually said they would trade 2027 for just Capela. Itsgotime thinks that would be the price if Holmes and McGee are matching salary. Lets say you traded 2027 pick and received a lottery protected pick back. I don't think that really drastically changes the future or current flexibility for Mavs.

[mvossman]

Ok this statement does put everything into context for me. I don’t value that pick as much as the guys who have shown the ability to be something in the league. 

The value of the pick to me at this point? Somewhere in the 20’s, cause I’m gonna do my best to keep putting the best team around my 2 stars every year. I understand that I will not be 100% on all deals I do going forward, that’s why when the opportunity like this that upgrades the team in such a significant way is so important. 

Yes, I do think that adding Capela to the group we have is a significant improvement. He literally is exactly the type of guy they are talking about when they have been saying for 2 offseasons, we’re going to improve our rim protection and rebounding. There are other, better options, but none of them seem to be available.

I agree with the sentiment of putting the best teams around Luka in order to lower the value of the picks we are sending out.  But that 27 pick is 4 years away.  I don't see it likely that Capela will be helping to lower the value of that pick.  I would much rather send the pick out for a younger player that has more chance to be contributing to lowering the pick's value in 4 years.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

A lotta split milk talk here about Kyrie. It doesn't matter. Things that do...

Are there any trades out there that can better us?

What is everyone's prediction for OMax's and Lively's contribution?

What is everyone's prediction for Holmes; contribution?

Will THJ still be a Mav after the TDL? If not, what will be get in return?

Who will Wood sign with? Any chances of using him in a S&T?

[KillerLeft]

I actually think there's a real possibility that the Kyrie trade may one day be seen as the trade that changed the entire direction of the franchise for the next decade or more, in a good way. If you had a superstar starting to lose hope, and fans too, would you invest a single future asset that may (or may not) be desirable way on down the line, to remove that black cloud and offer hope? The Brunson fiasco really took the legs right out from under this team that was just about to be a force, with only needing to add a piece or two. 

Ok, wow. This is interesting and helpful. We were discussing earlier whether or not I had considered this POV, and I said I had. In all transparency, I had NOT considered something THIS far on that side of the spectrum of outcomes on the Kyrie trade - nothing as positive as the wording above. I sure hope it works out this way. To be honest, it had not occurred to me.

[KillerLeft]

I’m not disputing your right to be annoyed, just pointing out a flaw of hindsight with many on these boards.  If it is true that 100% of the people on this board will be pissed/annoyed, it is more about not owning the original opinions and using hindsight as the basis for the new positions.  I’ll point it back at me instead of others as it applies to me as well.

I can’t fault the Mav’s for the Porzingis trade as I was onboard with it at the time.  If memory serves me correctly, many of the talking heads also thought the Mav’s pulled off a great trade and I THINK many questioned why he wasn’t shopped for a better deal (memory was it came out of left field but I may be remembering that wrong).

While I am a little more critical of the Brunson fiasco because IMO, the Mav’s should have had a better read, in no world did I see Brunson turning out the way he has from where he was at the the TDL, which is where I believe things started to go south in the relationship.  I liked Brunson more than most on this board but at that time, I still had questions around his upside, team and Luka fit, defense, and his value relative to the cost to retain.  If we are being honest, many had the same questions at the time.  In one case (Porzingis), many are upset we made the move.  In the other (Brunson), many are upset we didn’t.  Both are operating from a position of hindsight.

Bottom line is that it would be intellectually dishonest for me to overly bash the team for moves that in hindsight turned out different than I hoped when I was very happy with one  and conflicted on the other at the time the decision was made.  Is it annoying that Porzingis has and still influences our flexibility moving forward?  Sure…but I don’t blame the Mav’s.  Is watching Brunson’s continued development annoying, absolutely and I am a little less forgiving on that one as they had him from the get go.

Everyone has their opinions on Capela and where the Mav’s are.  Personally, I believe the Mav’s are much closer than I thought they would be.  I also believe they are another year away from being legit contenders and will likely need flexibility to take the next step.  To me, trading the ‘27 pick for Capela would be reverting back to the Mav’s old ways of thinking.  

I like Capela and think he improves the team but not at the cost of the ‘27 pick. I don’t think he changes the contention timeline or improves our odds of taking the next step.  If others feel he is the missing piece, then I can understand their conviction for making the move.  Just own the ultimate outcome, good or bad and don’t let hindsight cloud your future positions.

Agree with this. 

I was WAY on board with the Porzingis trade, and have said so many times. That one is hindsight, for sure. I wasn't even scared when they gave him a max-extension before he put a uniform on. That SHOULD have scared all of us to death. We were so desperate (myself included) for the new, shiny Luka/star pairing that we were sure was going to wreck the NBA we barely gave it a second of worry. 

One of the things I find interesting about my sports fan hobby is to observe and learn from these patterns. I am fascinated with how these decisions affect success over TIME. 

While I was not anti-Porzingis trade, I was one of the first to point out that it wasn't working, didn't have a chance of working in the future, and would end with him being moved off of the roster unceremoniously. I was hoping they'd bite the bulleit and eat that sunk cost a full year before they did, and believe they'd be better off today if they had. 

I think it's pretty fair to say that the team's chosen method to deal with the Porzingis mistake was to search for other risky deals involving draft capital farther and farther down the road. The desperation of dwindling assets and passing time makes bigger and bigger risks seem like better and better ideas. Kyrie IS a star. Great, great player. The trade, ensuing contract negotiations and prospect of him playing out his next deal here without issue all came with an element of risk, some to a high degree, and that's without considering timeline fit, results, etc.  

Now, look at how great MOST of us (not all of us) feel about this off-season, wherein the Mavs simply had a pick and the MLE to deal with, just like most teams. Look at what they were able to do with all of that. They turned the pick into three assets, each bringing varying degrees of promise and optimism for the next few seasons. They were able to use the MLE to leverage a sign and trade for probably the best Luka-fitting FA on the market. 

Maybe others feel differently. I might have felt differently 5-7 years ago. But, where I am right now is this: if they just did THIS kind of work EVERY summer, or at least like three out of every five summers, they would be a contender in no time without any of these big risks. AND, that type of organic contention is sustainable over a longer period of time.

[KillerLeft]

I agree with the sentiment of putting the best teams around Luka in order to lower the value of the picks we are sending out.  But that 27 pick is 4 years away.  I don't see it likely that Capela will be helping to lower the value of that pick.  I would much rather send the pick out for a younger player that has more chance to be contributing to lowering the pick's value in 4 years.

I agree with this soooooo much. Perfect way of articulating what I have been trying to say in post after post. 

If the player you're trading picks for won't be around to "help lower the value of the picks" you're trading, that's a trade that could end badly, and is in my opinion not a generally good way to do business. 

None of us knowing the Porzingis deal would be a mistake ahead of time argues FOR this POV, not against it.

[KillerLeft]

The value of the pick to me at this point? Somewhere in the 20’s, cause I’m gonna do my best to keep putting the best team around my 2 stars every year. I understand that I will not be 100% on all deals I do going forward, that’s why when the opportunity like this that upgrades the team in such a significant way is so important. 

Who will be "your 2 stars" in 2027?