Trade & FA 2023-24: Stein-Ingram Trade Inevitable| LAL Want Lebron Back On Any Terms

[KillerLeft]

I think exactly that would happen, if you bring in a 2-way wing. A good player will need his shots and THJ is taking them at the moment. You can't get them elsewhere. Mavs will not create more shots nor you can even further reduce shots of Green/Exum if they keep playing. Perhaps shots structure will be different.

The only thing THJ is good add is taking a lot of shots. Replace that with someone who can also play defense, and you have something.

I don't believe you can mix and match positions the way you're describing. 

Yes, offense can come from different positions than were it currently comes from, but that doesn't mean players all of a sudden know the responsibilities (or have the right non-scoring skills for) random new positions. It doesn't work like that, especially during season when there's no practice time to fix stuff.

[omahen]

I don't believe you can mix and match positions the way you're describing. 

Yes, offense can come from different positions than were it currently comes from, but that doesn't mean players all of a sudden know the responsibilities (or have the right non-scoring skills for) random new positions. It doesn't work like that, especially during season when there's no practice time to fix stuff.

You only make one change, everyone else stays in same role he is currently in. Exum, Green and DJJ take all remaining PG/SG and SF minutes with Hardy in a reduced chucker role. New guy, GWill and Maxi share PF minutes. Lively, Powell and Maxi are centers.

[Smitty]

The OMax omission was oversight! My bad.

Although I could see WAS want him over Hardy. I'm not sure I'd do the deal with him in it, as foolish as that may seem. 

I don't think bench scoring would be an issue. You'd have 2 of Luka, Kyrie, and Wiggins on the court at any time. Wiggins even in this state is still putting up around 12 a game. Deni can score as well. 

We'd just need Green+Exum+DJJ to stay healthy for it to work. That lineup did well in December.

It’s a hard no on any deal that involves Omax right now. Nobody rumored available is worth sending him out. I love Green and would only trade him if Deni is the replacement. Lively isn’t going anywhere. Hardy can be the asset attached in any trade that’s a perceived upgrade as far as I’m concerned.

[RGP1981]

I loved Herb Jones breakout post season performance his rookie year.  Was that the bubble?   

I dont know his contract details...I absolutely like his length and defense.

But man o man...his offense is worse than DFS's.   The few times I have seen him put it on the floor and try and finish at the rim has been very bad.   Maybe I just caught him at bad times.   

I would just be very worried we get another player with major fundamental flaws.   We gain size and length and defense...but I think its fair to say that Mavs need players with well rounded fundamentals.   The past 4 years we have been stuck with many rotation players that have weird fundamental warts and it seems to be a real issue even if the players fit the system.   

I like the idea of going cheaper for Jones than Wiggins....absolutely.

I think Herb's offense is better than DFS. He's been making small improvements to what he does on the court each season. I'd go so far as to say he's like a rich man's DFS, on offense and defense. He is also the "right" age, at 25yo.

https://thehighlow.io/video/player/nba/2...?ordsq=asc&shotFilters=

The Pels signed him to a new deal in the off-season.
2023-24: $12,015,150
2024-25: $12,976,362
2025-26: $13,937,574
2026-27: $14,898,786

[KillerLeft]

and DJJ take all remaining PG/SG and SF minutes 

I don't agree, sorry. We'll see.

[omahen]

I don't agree, sorry. We'll see.

Lets say you bring in Grant. A player who is used to take 15+ shots per game and is efficient doing it. Where does he get his shots from? Because I doubt he would be satisfied with GW role taking roughly 5 shots per game. Getting a guy like that changes the offense and roles of players.

I think there is no other way but to cancel the THJ role in such a case. Exum and Green are good shooters and satisfied taking limited shots. THJ would not contribute much, if you take away the only strength he has - taking shots.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I think if you bring in a starting level power forward and assume we continue to see the healthy Maxi we have been and Exum and Green are both still here then DJJ probably just gets naturally squeezed out of a playoff rotation.

Luka/Kyrie/Exum/Green would most like take on 90%+ of the PG/SG/SF minutes and Incoming PF/Lively/Maxi would most likely handle the entire front court rotation. DJJ would just be used in spot minutes at the point. His shooting isn't good enough to be on the floor in those minutes anyway (Iztok highlighted it as an issue again last night, we're simply playing 4 on 5 offensively when he's out there). Maxi would most likely get the same treatment but his size is too important to leave off the floor if he's healthy and playing well.

We're basically looking at DJJ vs whoever is also still left as the 8th person in the playoff rotation.

[youzigizag]

I think his offense is better than DFS. He's been making small improvements to what he does on the court each season. I'd go so far as to say he's like a rich man's DFS, on offense and defense. He is also the "right" age, at 25yo.

The Pels signed him to a new deal in the off-season.
2023-24: $12,015,150
2024-25: $12,976,362
2025-26: $13,937,574
2026-27: $14,898,786

He might be expensive to acquire...but I meant cheaper contract wise.   That contract looks a lot better than 26, 28 and then 30M for Wiggins.

My small sample size of Herb Jones is the rookie year Playoffs and when we play against him for the most part.   He just lacks what I deem as satisfactory NBA skills finishing in the paint.  I saw a game where he seemed to have nothing potent in his bag while driving into the paint...similar to DFS.   Recent is a small sample size.  I just assumed he still had low skill offensively like when he came into the league.   Hopefully for his sake he has built on his game.   I just wasnt impressed the other night by a couple of drives and attempts to finish...just like DFS.   I guess I need to watch more of his games.

The fundamental bball flaws Mavs rosters seem to be riddled with along with lack of size is one reason I am intrigued by Kuzma.   My opinion, as a casual fan, is that Mavs have done the system fit stuff with guys that fit with Luka percentage wise and it hasnt worked.   There is always something wrong...and its weird fundamental flaws in these players or lack of size.   Mavs FO seemed to look over flaws for system fit percentages.   It worked on offense a couple of years with us having most efficient offense ever...but defense or weird flaws got in the way.   Kuzma might not be a Luka perfect player....but he has size and skills.   Im ready to try plugging in guys with size and skill over perfect fit percentages.

Im just using Kuzma as an example.   I dont know if his attitude, contract, cost to acquire and more importantly his willingness to play within a Luka system are worth going after him.   I just want to see size and skills.   Perfect percentages havent worked.   We know Luka can pull weight...I would like to see what he can do with guys that have well rounded bball skills.  I find it hard to believe that the Luka system wouldnt work by sacraficing a few percentage points for more well rounded players.   Im not a numbers guy though...and numbers do matter...but so do fundamental skills.

Maybe Im wrong and PJ Washington is a better fit for our team than Kuzma even though I dont think he is as skilled.   Not just money wise or cost to acquire which has to be factored in.   Im just going to be bummed if we acquire Washington and its more of the same old same old.   Maybe Washington needs change of scenery and would flourish here...I just think Mavs need more of a 20M type of player and not average players.  If that makes sense.   Nothing against Washington...and I do get that not all 20M+ players are worth it.   I think you get what I mean by a 20M type player.

[KillerLeft]

Lets say you bring in Grant. A player who is used to take 15+ shots per game and is efficient doing it. Where does he get his shots from? Because I doubt he would be satisfied with GW role taking roughly 5 shots per game. Getting a guy like that changes the offense and roles of players.

I think there is no other way but to cancel the THJ role in such a case. Exum and Green are good shooters and satisfied taking limited shots. THJ would not contribute much, if you take away the only strength he has - taking shots.

Sure, but we're talking about two different things. My take has nothing to do with where shots come from, it has to do with something far more basic and obvious, like who is ABLE to and UNDERSTANDS how to play what position. 

We all understand that you can't play Rudy Gobert at PG, which is the most extreme example I can think of, but I don't agree with you that DJJ even CAN play guard or SF. It's not about would I, it's about I don't think he CAN. I could be wrong, but I don't agree with all the POA defender stuff people have said about him this year. I think basically the same thing I thought about him before the season - what makes him interesting is how he defends UP and then is way faster/more athletic than his opposition as a result. I'm not interested in him defending down, really, and I don't want anything to do with him being left open for threes at the WING instead of the CORNER. Sorry, I just don't like it. 

I think THJ and mystery new guest would be fine with the amount of great shots that could go around in the new balance of things, since you bring it up. Both of their attempts would go do down a little, but they'd be GREAT attempts. And honestly, THJ would HIT them, as would the new guy, I hope. DJJ, and Williams would NOT hit them, which is part of why this is an area of need to begin with.

[KillerLeft]

Not only do I not believe a deal MUST start with THJ to makes sense (it certainly COULD), I think people would be pretty surprised when his role after any such trade, were he to remain on the roster, did NOT decrease.

He is a better player than some of these guys we collectively decide to like more, and frankly, offense is the most important consideration, by far.

[omahen]

Sure, but we're talking about two different things. My take has nothing to do with where shots come from, it has to do with something far more basic and obvious, like who is ABLE to and UNDERSTANDS how to play what position. 

We all understand that you can't play Rudy Gobert at PG, which is the most extreme example I can think of, but I don't agree with you that DJJ even CAN play guard or SF. It's not about would I, it's about I don't think he CAN. I could be wrong, but I don't agree with all the POA defender stuff people have said about him this year. I think basically the same thing I thought about him before the season - what makes him interesting is how he defends UP and then is way faster/more athletic than his opposition as a result. I'm not interested in him defending down, really, and I don't want anything to do with him being left open for threes at the WING instead of the CORNER. Sorry, I just don't like it. 

I think THJ and mystery new guest would be fine with the amount of great shots that could go around in the new balance of things, since you bring it up. Both of their attempts would go do down a little, but they'd be GREAT attempts. And honestly, THJ would HIT them, as would the new guy, I hope. DJJ, and Williams would NOT hit them, which is part of why this is an area of need to begin with.

THJ is getting his minutes because Mavs are playing 3 guard lineups next to Luka and a center. That would dissapear with the new guy.

There are 144 minutes combined at PG, SG and SF. Luka and Kyrie take roughly 70 of those, leaving 74 for the rest. Green and Exum take at least 55 of those, leaving 19 minutes. Too few for a guy like THJ (especially at his salary). Those minutes would be taken by role players like Hardy and Curry. 

New guy takes 35 PF minutes. Remaining 13 are taken by GWill, DJJ or Maxi, depending who is still on the team.

[SleepingHero]

@TheDunkCentral
The New York Knicks reportedly rejected a trade offer from the Dallas Mavericks for Quentin Grimes, per
@SbondyNBA

[Chicagojk]

I think most would not want to give up a first for DFS this trade deadline. Would you change this for the summer? one first and expiring for DFS. Then you still have two firsts for a higher tier player.

hollinger had a all deadline team article on the Athletic. Only Mavs thing is if the Mavs use Holmes, Plus another salary (mentions Grant Williams) and 27 first to pry away an elite forward. He does not mention names.

Mentions royce O'neal could fetch a couple of seconds.

Says if Lakers don't make a larger trade, they could trade Wood and a second to land Wood on another roster to get below the tax line.

[SleepingHero]

@BrettSiegelNBA
A trade involving PJ Washington appears to be likely before Thursday, sources said, as the Dallas Mavericks have suddenly emerged as a top trade suitor for him.

[DallasMaverick]

@BrettSiegelNBA
A trade involving PJ Washington appears to be likely before Thursday, sources said, as the Dallas Mavericks have suddenly emerged as a top trade suitor for him.

Rumors flying rapidly now.

If the Grimes-to-Mavs rumor was true, does that mean they have a trade for THJ lined up?  Or Curry?  Or Hardy?

[SleepingHero]

Rumors flying rapidly now.

If the Grimes-to-Mavs rumor was true, does that mean they have a trade for THJ lined up?  Or Curry?  Or Hardy?

I feel like the Grimes rumor is old stuff. I remember those rumors from early January. Mavs probably leaked it to show they are shopping around to other teams whatever package they're giving Charlotte for PJ.

---

" A trade involving Washington appears to be likely before Thursday, sources said, as the Dallas Mavericks have suddenly emerged as a top trade suitor for him. Dallas is looking to add another key talent around Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving by utilizing the contracts of Richaun Holmes, Maxi Kleber, and Grant Williams, if needed. Charlotte is not going to be giving up Washington just for the sake of making a trade, which is why they have shown interest in Mavs swingman Josh Green, according to Marc Stein."

Grant Williams+Hardy for PJ feels good.

[loki]

" A trade involving Washington appears to be likely before Thursday, sources said, as the Dallas Mavericks have suddenly emerged as a top trade suitor for him. Dallas is looking to add another key talent around Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving by utilizing the contracts of Richaun Holmes, Maxi Kleber, and Grant Williams, if needed. Charlotte is not going to be giving up Washington just for the sake of making a trade, which is why they have shown interest in Mavs swingman Josh Green, according to Marc Stein."

Grant Williams+Hardy for PJ feels good.

Be prepared to lose the 27 1st if the Mavs are dumping a bad contract in the process. At least that's what I would ask for if I were Charlotte.

[SleepingHero]

Be prepared to lose the 27 1st if the Mavs are dumping a bad contract in the process. At least that's what I would ask for if I were Charlotte.

PJ's contract isn't sunshine and roses either. Sure he's a better player than Grant, but he's not worth 18mil a year

[KillerLeft]

Grant Williams+Hardy for PJ feels good.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Would folks here be more upset in a hypothetical PJ package that used our 27 FRP or if it included Josh?