Tim Hardaway Jr.

[Kammrath]

Does this new system not use Hardaway correctly?
Is their collective execution of the system so bad, currently, that it just looks like they're not using him the right way? 
Is it just a matter of him not playing well enough, and there's nothing to be done until he gets out of this funk, if he ever can?

New system? It just feels like give Luka the ball and let him figure something out.

I do think he is not playing well, as in he is not making some shots he normally could. BUT I also see him take many, many shots where I think "Why the hell is he taking that shot? Did he really think THAT was the best shot the team could get in this possession?" 

So his "not playing well" extends deep into his shot selection from me. Are the coaches encouraging those shots? If so, they suck. If they are not and are not reining him in, they suck.

[KillerLeft]

New system? It just feels like give Luka the ball and let him figure something out.

Go watch that video I posted in the X's O's thread. It helped me understand what they're trying to do much better. I'm pretty convinced there is design and intent happening, offensively. Whether it's the right intent, or rather the best intent for this roster is another debate entirely, because they sure aren't very good at it.

[Kammrath]

Go watch that video I posted in the X's O's thread. It helped me understand what they're trying to do much better. I'm pretty convinced there is design and intent happening, offensively. Whether it's the right intent, or rather the best intent for this roster is another debate entirely, because they sure aren't very good at it.

Cool, I haven't checked it out yet.

[F Gump]

I really don't think Hardaway and Wood are being compared in the slightest. .

Bingo! Wood is a big (and is competing for minutes with other bigs, such as Bertans Powell, McGee, and Kleber) and Hardaway is a guard or small wing (and is competing for minutes with Bullock, Dinwiddie, and Green).

I do think that THJ is gone once they find a taker, and that trying to increase his trade value is some of what's going on with him. But he's really sparing it up when he plays these days, which is not helping from any angle.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I didn't mean for my post to come off as if Wood and Hardaway are competing for minutes, just that I feel their mistakes are being handled differently but it also feels as if I feel differently about the way Hardaway is playing.  If the coach wants him to take all those shots, that's fine, but to me there's obvious mistakes being made by Hardaway on the offensive side of the ball.  There was a possession earlier in the second where he had an easy swing to Wood on a rotation that the defense hadn't caught up to yet but took a contested shot that he bricked (he actually made that pass on the same set later in that quarter which led to Wood driving and kicking it out to a MUCH more open Green who knocked it down) and then the fast break that he decided to take 1 on 3.  To me these are mistakes that would cost Green minutes so why not Hardaway?  Why is Wood yanked after one missed rotation on defense but Hardaway is allowed a much longer leash in terms of his (in my opinion) mistakes?

I know they want and need him shooting, but what we're seeing isn't just poor shooting, it's awful decision making at times.

Also to the point of Hardaway being our at least our 4th most polished offensive player, I totally agree (and it bums me out)!  Last year though, we made it to the conference finals with only 3 polished players that could only be used 2 at once and that didn't stop us.  While I know Hardaway has been decent on defense, it's certainly not why he's out there, so it feels like maybe we're pressing to get him to a place that really isn't even going to move the needle all that much for us and we're doing it at the cost of what feel like easy wins early on.

[dynamicalVoid]

I dont understand why Dallas is investing in THJ as a 3 point shooter or scorer.

Iztok's latest tweet questions THJ's career shooting from 3.  And...why invest in THJ as anything other than a 3 guy when he cant even dribble.

None of this makes sense at all for Mavs.   You can try and convince it makes sense...but it doesnt.  Definitely sounds like square pegs round holes.  Trying to force a guy to be something he isnt.

[ThisIStheYear]

Thanks for starting a THJ thread. We need one. I predict it will get lots of traffic. But, like the other player specific threads, it needs an intro. Something like “The World’s Richest Bricklayer:  Tim Hardaway Jr.”

He’s shooting 32%.  Not from the three, which is bad enough, but FROM THE FIELD!  Unbelievable.  He’s not even an NBA quality player anymore.

[cow]

People laughed when I said he was worth about half of his previous contract.

My favorite THJ story is that the reason the Mavericks acquired KP is that they chatted with the Knicks brass about acquiring THJ and the discussion evolved from there.  I always assumed THJ's albatross contract was part of the price of getting the Unicorn.  And as the MBT are want to do, they gave him a richer contract.  Shades of the Rondo/DP trade.  You can't make this shit up.

[SleepingHero]

THJ is probably either the 2nd or 3rd most offensively polished player on the roster

I know you love THJ KL but this is kinda nutty given what he's put out the last 57 games he's suited up as a Mav.

His averages are 13.5/3/2 on 37.7%/33%/80%. He takes 12 shots a game. 

He's a black hole of enormous proportions and I'm surprised he gets such a long leash from you. Sure Tim has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create a shot (that goes in 1 in every 3 tries), but does that mean he's offensively polished? I wouldn't say so. Luka/Wood/SD/ are the clear front runners. And I'll go so far to say DFS is a better offensive player than Timmy is right now. The difference is one knows their role and actually produces.

[KillerLeft]

He's a black hole of enormous proportions and I'm surprised he gets such a long leash from you. Sure Tim has the ability to put the ball on the floor and create a shot (that goes in 1 in every 3 tries), but does that mean he's offensively polished? I wouldn't say so. Luka/Wood/SD/ are the clear front runners. And I'll go so far to say DFS is a better offensive player than Timmy is right now. The difference is one knows their role and actually produces.

It's not about his leash with ME, he clearly has a long leash from THEM, which is what I was trying to point out. And, I submit that THJ knows exactly what his role here is. Hence the long leash. 

All I'm saying is that for the Mavs to be a good team this year, without Brunson, they're going to need THJ to play well. He hasn't had a great start, that's obvious, but the single most unproductive thing we can do is bitch about it. We have no power to change a thing, so those sitting around hoping for a THJ benching above all else are basically just working themselves into an angry frenzy for nothing. It's truly bizarre. 

The reality is that they aren't going to bench hm because of what he can do, in theory. I get scrutinizing the contract or choice to re-sign him at the time (I would still have done it, tbh) but at this point that's a done deal. He's here, and people hoping the Mavs do well should be hoping Hardaway gets back to being what he was under Carlisle, because that's a big part of how this story ends well for the Mavs. 

It's the same for McGee. I hated the signing, hated the contract. Really not a fan of the player at all, BUT I sure hope they find a way to get something out of him. Well, if the Mavs can get Hardaway going again, the offense and team will be much, much better. Whatever trade they put him in will probably be better, too.

[dynamicalVoid]

It's not about his leash with ME, he clearly has a long leash from THEM, which is what I was trying to point out. And, I submit that THJ knows exactly what his role here is. Hence the long leash. 

All I'm saying is that for the Mavs to be a good team this year, without Brunson, they're going to need THJ to play well. He hasn't had a great start, that's obvious, but the single most unproductive thing we can do is bitch about it. We have no power to change a thing, so those sitting around hoping for a THJ benching above all else are basically just working themselves into an angry frenzy for nothing. It's truly bizarre. 

The reality is that they aren't going to bench hm because of what he can do, in theory. I get scrutinizing the contract or choice to re-sign him at the time (I would still have done it, tbh) but at this point that's a done deal. He's here, and people hoping the Mavs do well should be hoping Hardaway gets back to being what he was under Carlisle, because that's a big part of how this story ends well for the Mavs. 

It's the same for McGee. I hated the signing, hated the contract. Really not a fan of the player at all, BUT I sure hope they find a way to get something out of him. Well, if the Mavs can get Hardaway going again, the offense and team will be much, much better. Whatever trade they put him in will probably be better, too.

Couple of things going on here that are discouraging...

1) "WHAT HE CAN DO" - Basing an investment off of 2 Cinderella years under Carlisle is risky potatoes.  Iztok posted yesterday that THJ's career shooting his questionable.  Being objective...WHAT HE CAN DO is being extremely average.  Mavs really think THJ is worth wasting possessions on?  I dont know if thats prudent management. 

2)  "ARENT GOING TO BENCH HIM" - This is extreme mismanagement/bad coaching based on my belief that his value is unrepairable and he harms the team more than helps regardless of the offenses inability to get shots off outside of Luka, Spencer and Wood.  Its about winning not wasting time with career average players.

This all comes back to my question that no one has answered above...Why are Mavs investing in THJ when he is average?  Everyone knows what he is at this point.  We are wasting time investing in him and stunting younger players growth in the hopes THJ gets it together this year and we win a trophy?  Because he is unmovable and we are stuck with him?  I dont know...I still think you invest in the younger guys or let Bertans who has career better shooting numbers than THJ have those shots.  Again...its about making the team better and winning.

TL; DR version = THJ gets way too many shots for an average shooter and no one has any sort of reasonable explanation for it

[dynamicalVoid]

True or False:

THJ gets too many shots for an average shooter?

[Kammrath]

THJ gets too many shots for an average shooter?

THJ ranks 45th in the whole NBA in FGA per 36 mins for guys with 300+ minutes played this season. 

Of those 45 guys only Klay (0.388), Trae (0.398), and Dillon Brooks (0.394) have a FG% below 40%.....

.....oh wait, except for THJ who is shooting 0.319 from the field. 

Yeah, it is THAT bad.

[dynamicalVoid]

Apparently everything hinges on THJ lol...

You cant make this stuff up, guys

[ThisIStheYear]

True or False:

THJ gets too many shots for an average shooter?

True or Flase:

THJ is an average shooter?


Lol. Not even close.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

The reality is that they aren't going to bench hm because of what he can do, in theory. 

Maybe not total benching but further reduced minutes?
Maybe get some burn for Hardy? or even Dorsey? at the expense of THJ's PT.
Hardy and to some extent, Dorsey are similar enough to THJ they can mimic him (hopefully minus his misses).

Maybe the output can be worse, but IMHo, exposure brings hope for improvement for the young guys. Something I am more optimistic about than hoping for THJ to get it together. Could be better for the team in the long run.

[KillerLeft]

Maybe not total benching but further reduced minutes?
Maybe get some burn for Hardy? or even Dorsey? at the expense of THJ's PT.
Hardy and to some extent, Dorsey are similar enough to THJ they can mimic him (hopefully minus his misses).

Maybe the output can be worse, but IMHo, exposure brings hope for improvement for the young guys. Something I am more optimistic about than hoping for THJ to get it together. Could be better for the team in the long run.

He might sacrifice some of his minutes for the great awakening of Josh Green, but I doubt either Hardy or Dorsey have a chance to supplant him. Not this year, at least, and this is probably THJ's last season here.

[ballsrchr]

True or False:

THJ gets too many shots for an average shooter?

It's not that he gets too many shots...but that he takes too many shots.  If he would choose his shots wisely things would be very different.

[dynamicalVoid]

It's not that he gets too many shots...but that he takes too many shots.  If he would choose his shots wisely things would be very different.

Regardless...he should be benched for take shots he shouldnt.

[ThisIStheYear]

1-7 tonight.  0-5 from the three.  Just another routine night at the office for the Brick Meister.