ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[dirkfansince1998]

Just to at least mention the scenario. Lets say Kyrie walks away. Mavs cannot find a sign&trade partner. What is the best option?
If they renounce all capholds they can create a little more than 14m in capspace. If they keep Powell on a vet min only 12m. Obviously could create even more if they move on from Bullock and/or waive Bertans/McGee.
In addition they would have the full MLE and BAE.

Basically starting from scratch. Rebuilding the entire roster. What is the best possible outcome?

[ItsGoTime]

Just to at least mention the scenario. Lets say Kyrie walks away. Mavs cannot find a sign&trade partner. What is the best option?
If they renounce all capholds they can create a little more than 14m in capspace. If they keep Powell on a vet min only 12m. Obviously could create even more if they move on from Bullock and/or waive Bertans/McGee.
In addition they would have the full MLE and BAE.

Basically starting from scratch. Rebuilding the entire roster. What is the best possible outcome?

Get the #1 pick. Trade it for picks and players. Rebuild done.

[omahen]

Just to at least mention the scenario. Lets say Kyrie walks away. Mavs cannot find a sign&trade partner. What is the best option?
If they renounce all capholds they can create a little more than 14m in capspace. If they keep Powell on a vet min only 12m. Obviously could create even more if they move on from Bullock and/or waive Bertans/McGee.
In addition they would have the full MLE and BAE.

Basically starting from scratch. Rebuilding the entire roster. What is the best possible outcome?

I don't think Mavs can continue to hope to build a contender around Luka in this case. I think best way for Mavs in this scenario would be to extract history breaking record package for Luka and start from scratch.

What would happen in reality. Mavs would not admit they screwed up yet another thing and continue to put subpar rosters around Luka until he requests a trade. 

Btw: I think Marks and MacMahon had a very nice talk regarding Mavs options. Felt a bit incomplete as they only tackled cap space and Irving SnT options, but some interesting ideas and notes

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Might have something to do with the list of best players you just posted. Not a single plus defender. I would adjust your statement and say that you build around your best player. In a best case scenario around your two best players. Rest of the team has to fit next to them. If you have two guards that cannot defend you have to make sure that the rest of the team is close to all-defense level.

That's fantastic in a vacuum.  If Luka, Kyrie, and Wood aren't our top 3 players, name yours.  A case can be made for Green, but 6.4 shot attempts isn't exactly setting the world on fire offensively.

This roster is completely void of 2-way players.  FG%+ > 2% are McGee 6.3%, Green 3.5%, Bullock 2.2%.  None of those guys can be considered a 2-way player because their offense is so not there.

Now, as a starter you get better numbers on a few (greater than 5 starts): Green 8.9%, McGee 3.6%, Bullock 3.1%.

That said Kidd should have started Luka, Kyrie, Green, Bullock, and McGee...  with Wood getting at least 32mins as 6th man.

But yes.  This team needs a defensive stud PF and SF.

[chaparral]

I don't think Mavs can continue to hope to build a contender around Luka in this case. I think best way for Mavs in this scenario would be to extract history breaking record package for Luka and start from scratch.

If that were to happen (not saying I want it to happen) would you still be a Mavs fan?

[dirkfansince1998]

That's fantastic in a vacuum.  If Luka, Kyrie, and Wood aren't our top 3 players, name yours.  A case can be made for Green, but 6.4 shot attempts isn't exactly setting the world on fire offensively.

This roster is completely void of 2-way players.  FG%+ > 2% are McGee 6.3%, Green 3.5%, Bullock 2.2%.  None of those guys can be considered a 2-way player because their offense is so not there.

Now, as a starter you get better numbers on a few (greater than 5 starts): Green 8.9%, McGee 3.6%, Bullock 3.1%.

That said Kidd should have started Luka, Kyrie, Green, Bullock, and McGee...  with Wood getting at least 32mins as 6th man.

But yes.  This team needs a defensive stud PF and SF.

That´s the point. If the roster you have build is fundamentally flawed the only way to fix it is breaking up whatever you view as your top 2/3 players. The solution wasn´t on the roster. Mavs only had two guys that made a legit impact on defense based on +/- numbers. Maxi and Frank. But as you mentioned both aren´t exactly two-way players.

Bullock declined badly. Couldn´t stay in front of anyone all season long. The McGee experiment ended nine games into the season because the Mavs couldn´t afford to give up double digit runs whenever he entered the floor.
Green earned more playing time as the season progressed but one guy cannot cover for an entire team and he still has a lot of stuff to learn before I would consider him a real plus defender (jumping for fakes, reaching in, giving up the iniside). Sad truth is that THJ probably was one of the top 5 defenders on the team this season.

There is no way that you can compete with a cast like this. Just like a couple of posters predicted prior to the season. Listening to Harrison´s exit interview the Mavs tried to focus on their strengths and just play what they viewed as their best possible lineup. Ignoring the defensive end. If I remember it correctly Harrison stated that the Mavs defense was bad prior to the Kyrie trade. Even with DFS still on the roster. Pretty obvious that things would be even worse without the only legit wing defender but I guess they thought that more offensive fire power would be enough to make up for an all time bad defense.

[Jym]

Just to at least mention the scenario. Lets say Kyrie walks away. Mavs cannot find a sign&trade partner. What is the best option?
If they renounce all capholds they can create a little more than 14m in capspace. If they keep Powell on a vet min only 12m. Obviously could create even more if they move on from Bullock and/or waive Bertans/McGee.
In addition they would have the full MLE and BAE.

Basically starting from scratch. Rebuilding the entire roster. What is the best possible outcome?

only option is to find a backup team to root for at that point

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

That´s the point. If the roster you have build is fundamentally flawed the only way to fix it is breaking up whatever you view as your top 2/3 players. The solution wasn´t on the roster. Mavs only had two guys that made a legit impact on defense based on +/- numbers. Maxi and Frank. But as you mentioned both aren´t exactly two-way players.

Bullock declined badly. Couldn´t stay in front of anyone all season long. The McGee experiment ended nine games into the season because the Mavs couldn´t afford to give up double digit runs whenever he entered the floor.
Green earned more playing time as the season progressed but one guy cannot cover for an entire team and he still has a lot of stuff to learn before I would consider him a real plus defender (jumping for fakes, reaching in, giving up the iniside). Sad truth is that THJ probably was one of the top 5 defenders on the team this season.

There is no way that you can compete with a cast like this. Just like a couple of posters predicted prior to the season. Listening to Harrison´s exit interview the Mavs tried to focus on their strengths and just play what they viewed as their best possible lineup. Ignoring the defensive end. If I remember it correctly Harrison stated that the Mavs defense was bad prior to the Kyrie trade. Even with DFS still on the roster. Pretty obvious that things would be even worse without the only legit wing defender but I guess they thought that more offensive fire power would be enough to make up for an all time bad defense.

Your specific solution is what?

Easy to deconstruct with obvious observations.  You said I needed to rework my list of Luka, Kyrie, and Wood.  OK, correct me with your list.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Just to at least mention the scenario. Lets say Kyrie walks away. Mavs cannot find a sign&trade partner. What is the best option?
If they renounce all capholds they can create a little more than 14m in capspace. If they keep Powell on a vet min only 12m. Obviously could create even more if they move on from Bullock and/or waive Bertans/McGee.
In addition they would have the full MLE and BAE.

Basically starting from scratch. Rebuilding the entire roster. What is the best possible outcome?

Quite simply, we have to sign Wood.  We have to sign Kyrie or get ~value for him.

I still say a Kyrie S&T is the best scenario.  Ayton and Craig.  PHX could then move CP3 for a couple of Bigs.  We could sign a defensive stud backup PG.

PG - Luka, ???
SG - Green, Hardy
SF - Craig, THJ, Bullock
PF - Wood, Maxi
C - Ayton, McGee

[DallasMaverick]

only option is to find a backup team to root for at that point

Spurs?  Rockets?

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Spurs?  Rockets?

I've got the Pels all lined up for my fandom.

[Chicagojk]

I've got the Pels all lined up for my fandom.

I have considered the unthinkable.  If Luka eventually leaves and we are left with the childish, huge ego Cuban I may leave my fandom behind as well.   I don't say this lightly either.   Especially sticking with the team in the 13 win season, Jim Clemons, Ross Perot Jr., Zachanelli, etc.  But I don't think I will stick with the team if they don't keep Luka.

[dirkfansince1998]

Your specific solution is what?

Easy to deconstruct with obvious observations.  You said I needed to rework my list of Luka, Kyrie, and Wood.  OK, correct me with your list.

As @"Mavs2021"  stated. Win now isn´t always the smartest solution. Mavs have messed up. Doubling down on something that hasn´t worked makes no sense. Going all in on a core that cost them most of their remaining assets but isn´t working is a classic case of sunken cost fallacy.

That´s why my list of important guys only includes one name. Luka. I would prefer to get value out of Irving and Wood but I don´t really want to have them back on the roster next season. If the Mavs cannot get anything in return they are at least one big step closer to a clean slate. Only remaining dead weight would be Bertans and McGee.
Actually think that keeping both Wood and Irving would be the worst case scenario. Would make it really difficult to upgrade other positions.

[LifeAquatic]

I've got the Pels all lined up for my fandom.

OKC is going to be a beast for years...

They have alot of young players, others coming back next year, and a ton of draft picks. But most of all, their front office feels competent.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Btw: I think Marks and MacMahon had a very nice talk regarding Mavs options. Felt a bit incomplete as they only tackled cap space and Irving SnT options, but some interesting ideas and notes

I thought it was a good conversation too.  Much was McMahon asking Marks about McMahon’s S&T ideas with LAL and Phoenix.  When Tim shut up long enough to listen, Marks made some good points.

I thought the best idea was the Draymond opt-in idea and trade prior to 7/1.  With the new 40% extension rule, Draymond can get extended in the fall for say 2 additional years at $80mm.  He’d play next season at $27.6mm and would get a 3 year average of $36mm.  Green has a somewhat credible free agency threat if GS doesn’t want to pay him that much, so such a deal might be in everyone’s best interest.  Dallas has done this kind of deal before.

We’d be working off of 22/23 salaries, so the outgoing requirement is about $20.56mm.  Mark’s mentioned THJ + Green.  THJ + Hardy also works.  Bertans and McGee works, but you get into ‘why would GS do that’ territory.  GS has #16, so a trade of 10 to 16 might be part of the compensation also.  Personally, I wouldn’t do #10 or Josh Green for Draymond.  Josh solves one of the + defender spots we need to fill.  I could be talked into swapping from 10 to 16 OR sending out Hardy.  I like Hardy, but one of the youngsters has to go unless you can talk someone into taking McGee.  This team needs what Josh does more than it needs what Hardy does.

Now you have Green, Green, Luka and Kyrie starting.  You’ve started to help the D while the Green’s both bring value to an offense.  You still have a pick in 23 to use or trade and the 2027 combined with someone from among Bertans, Reggie, Maxi and McGee to try to add more talent to the roster.  Some of our favorite targets would still be very much in play.  In fact, because Draymond plays multiple positions, you’d have flexibility in terms of what you could target (and you’d still have the TP MLE).  This kind of deal where you end up with two guys and a MLE guy is what I’m hoping for.

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Quite simply, we have to sign Wood. 

Good luck with that.  The tea leaves are screaming that it won’t happen.

[ItsGoTime]

Wood would be fine as a bench big used basically how he was used this year…if we have better bigs than we had this year. Biggest reason I spoke up for him is because of who he was pitted against on this team.

With a new offseason comes new opportunities to get better at the big spots. If we get 3 guys that fit better than Wood, great! If we resign Powell and don’t trade McGee, not so great. Simple as that for me.

[ItsGoTime]

Also, anyone else think about Wood when Nico talked about blowing out the offense and not caring about defense?

How can a person ever think any of our other bigs is better offensively than Wood?

[Jason Terry]

#10 and Mcgee to Utah

#16, #28 and Olynyk to Dallas

[omahen]

If that were to happen (not saying I want it to happen) would you still be a Mavs fan?

I am Luka fan. But, since he is playing for the Mavs, I of course root for them to be as good as possible. So, in this context I am also a Mavs fan. But if Luka leaves, I leave  I admire everyone who has been a Mavs fan since 2011. I would not be able to support such malpractice for so long. Luka or no Luka

[omahen]

#10 and Mcgee to Utah

#16, #28 and Olynyk to Dallas

Olynik is worse defensively than Wood. I would not want to spend a good pick on such a marginal player unless Mavs guy (whoever that is), is available at 16. But I kind of doubt you can't draft (much) better at 10 than at 16.