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[Jason Terry]

It could also go the other way and he’s a playoff hero (even as a bench player).  He’ll likely have to take no more than the TP-MLE if he wants to stay.  But as a bench guy with a questionable outside shot, that is probably close to his value.  His per game numbers are up a bit, but that’s strictly minutes (which may change soon).  He is exactly who he’s always been on a per minute basis and that player had to take a minimum last summer.

If he has a heroic playoff run, he might could get the room MLE or part of the full MLE from a lesser team.  So, there is a chance he’s leaving a million or two on the table to stay here.  But, as you point out, it might not take close to that.  

In my mind, we are sitting about $700k into the tax next season with 13 players including our second rounder.  We’ll have a minimum (maybe Morris, maybe Lawson) and we’ll have the TPMLE.  The combination will take us right to the first apron, but the main thing we lose there is the ability to take on a trade spread.  You have the same situation if you are sitting a hair under the first apron as the ability to take on extra salary in a trade depends on where you are relative to the apron ‘after’ the trade.  

I think you bring back the band.  I want to see Green and PJ as our 4th/5th guys as Lively grows in year two.  We have a strong and diverse bench in Gafford, Maxi, DJJ, THJ and Exum (or Hardy if Exum is hurt).  I’d prefer to take some time and see what we actually need as this is almost a new team between injuries and trades.  We’ve never seen this combo of players and I’m not sure Green or PJ will be easy to upgrade.  I also like THJ much better with some D and some size around him.  I think our biggest weakness is dealing with Exum’s injuries and Kyrie’s age.  Hayes isn’t some superstar waiting to be discovered.  But, he can give us some minutes of ball handling and size.  If he can be a little better than Frank as a 15th guy, it might be worth giving him some of our remaining MLE on a two year with a TO on the second so we’d have a path to keeping him and DJJ this summer.

This is about right. We need to test ourselves rest of season to see where our holes are at. Bringing everyone back seems like the best option 

If i had to guess what we will need it’s probably perimeter defense and extra ball handling. I see us arguing over if we could somehow turn Hardaway into Bruce Brown or Caruso or Thybulle

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I think you bring back the band.  I want to see Green and PJ as our 4th/5th guys as Lively grows in year two.  We have a strong and diverse bench in Gafford, Maxi, DJJ, THJ and Exum (or Hardy if Exum is hurt). 

Not to beat a dead horse but I think what is great about the current situation is that we can add to the band without breaking it up. That bench has 20M in expiring that you can still pair with draft capital if you find a clear upgrade that moves either Josh or PJ to the bench. You can up that number to 31M by adding Maxi.

I also don’t think we’ve talked on this board about what the best lineup is on this team now. I tend to agree with what you’re thinking but you have Gafford/Maxi/Exum on your bench who have all seen success as starters and I would think still want to find a starting role (Maxi probably doesn’t care but I have a hard time seeing Gafford not competing with Lively or a healthy Exum not forcing Kidd to think twice at times if Green gets inconsistent). Lots of different combos they can throw out now that achieve similar skill sets and balance and I think we’ve made some assumptions that Kidd may disagree with. It will be incredibly interesting to watch the last 30 games and see what variations he throws out.

[Smitty]

So if you look at the average mpg numbers for this team, this is what it looks like.

Irving (33) - Exum (19) - Hardy (15)
Green (27) - THJ (30)
Luka (37) - DJJ (25)
PJW (29) - Maxi (21)
Lively (26) - Gafford (26)

PG: 67 / 48
SG: 57 / 48
SF: 62 / 48
PF: 50 / 48
C: 52 / 48


A few things that stand out.

1) THJ is about to get the squeeze! Most of us have been asking for this a while now. He can slot into a more reasonable 18-22 mpg bench role depending on if his shot is falling that night.

2) DJJ is also going back to the role he was initially meant for. A bench 3/4, 12-18 mpg POA defender with a vertical offensive game. He has been over played and over exposed due to other injuries.

3) Maxi and Exum need to be put in bubble wrap post-ASB. They shouldn’t play a second over 18 minutes the rest of the way.. until Game 1 of course.


The way I see it moving forward.

Irving (32) | Exum (16)
Green (28) | THJ (20)
Luka (36) | DJJ (12)
PJW (30) | Maxi (18)
Lively (24) | Gafford (24)

Hardy is a luxury - only gets PT if guys are injured.

[Jym]

I know you want to make this about tanking (and it was an important factor in all of this), but it also tells a story of skill on the part of Nico and Lindsey.  Nico inherited KP and the picks it took to get him.  He inherited the structure of the Brunson contract.  I think this goes back to splitting KP (who needed to go) into Dinwiddie (who played a sizable role in the WCF run) and Bertans.  Dinwiddie with DFS and 2029 became Kyrie.  I’d argue that breaking up KP into tradable pieces was the right thing to do.  But, if you trace it back this far, then KP (the Boston version when healthy) plus DFS plus 2029 (and eating Bertans) is a lot to give for Kyrie.  But, Kyrie is a better fit than KP and we’ve rallied well (with the help of the draft pick at #10) to back fill what we gave up.

I would call that (and the Brunson fiasco) digging out from the sins of the past.  Something changed this summer in terms of creativity and aggression.  As you point out, we traded down to get rid of Bertans, but did it in a way that created a TPE.  We then ate a contract in Holmes to pick up OMAX.  Holmes and a 28 swap got us Gafford.  So, a two-spot trade down and a 28 swap (plus the tank) got us Lively, OMax and Gafford…genius.

I’m not sure GWill was our first choice this summer.  His S&T came after Portland matched on Thybulle.  We were apparently in on several other things (including PJ according to PJ).  It is reasonable to criticize the pick swap with SA.  But it got rid of Bullock’s salary and we got four seconds back (all tangible things) and used two seconds to get GWill.  GWill and a lightly protected 2027 got us PJ and two more seconds.  So, a 2030 swap and the 2027 pick turned Bullock into PJ and four second round picks.  

I think you also have to give credit for negotiating good deals for Irving and Green and bringing in DJJ and Exum as reclamation projects…not to mention drafting Lively, Hardy and OMax.  We’ve sent out KP, DFS, Bullock, 2027, 2029 and swaps in 2028 and 2030 and turned all of that into Kyrie, OMax, Gafford and PJ.  I don’t include Lively as we didn’t trade anything (except maybe some pride) to get him, but we were quite clever in the way we took him at 12 instead of 10.  

Give me Lively/Gafford over KP (on this team after seeing the KP-Luka fit).  Give me younger and bigger PJ over DFS (Sorry Cow).  This version of Kyrie is probably worth the two firsts we’ve sent out if he were to hit the market today.  If you go back to KP, it is less amazing than if you start from this summer.  But, going all the way back to KP means you are also cleaning up other people’s messes.  As someone who throws out dozens of ideas every summer and every TDL (that I think are fairly realistic), I’ve spent years being underwhelmed by the performance of the FO.  The summer of 23 and TDL of 24 have both been just incredible given what we had to work with and given our cap sheet and young assets are still in tact.  I may feel differently in the summer of 27 or the summer of 29, but that story isn’t written.  The story of right now has been written and it is encouraging.

The plan can be argued against but I'm just so glad they had a plan and a goal (and followed through on that plan).

[mvossman]

Not to beat a dead horse but I think what is great about the current situation is that we can add to the band without breaking it up. That bench has 20M in expiring that you can still pair with draft capital if you find a clear upgrade that moves either Josh or PJ to the bench. You can up that number to 31M by adding Maxi.

I also don’t think we’ve talked on this board about what the best lineup is on this team now. I tend to agree with what you’re thinking but you have Gafford/Maxi/Exum on your bench who have all seen success as starters and I would think still want to find a starting role (Maxi probably doesn’t care but I have a hard time seeing Gafford not competing with Lively or a healthy Exum not forcing Kidd to think twice at times if Green gets inconsistent). Lots of different combos they can throw out now that achieve similar skill sets and balance and I think we’ve made some assumptions that Kidd may disagree with. It will be incredibly interesting to watch the last 30 games and see what variations he throws out.

I think Exum is definitely going to make more sense coming off the bench.  He is at his most value when one or both of Luka/Kyrie are off the court and his current injury is overuse related.  We probably need to be careful with him and keep his minutes restricted.  Should be easy to do when the team is healthy.

[mvossman]

It could also go the other way and he’s a playoff hero (even as a bench player).  He’ll likely have to take no more than the TP-MLE if he wants to stay.  But as a bench guy with a questionable outside shot, that is probably close to his value.  His per game numbers are up a bit, but that’s strictly minutes (which may change soon).  He is exactly who he’s always been on a per minute basis and that player had to take a minimum last summer.

If he has a heroic playoff run, he might could get the room MLE or part of the full MLE from a lesser team.  So, there is a chance he’s leaving a million or two on the table to stay here.  But, as you point out, it might not take close to that.  

In my mind, we are sitting about $700k into the tax next season with 13 players including our second rounder.  We’ll have a minimum (maybe Morris, maybe Lawson) and we’ll have the TPMLE.  The combination will take us right to the first apron, but the main thing we lose there is the ability to take on a trade spread.  You have the same situation if you are sitting a hair under the first apron as the ability to take on extra salary in a trade depends on where you are relative to the apron ‘after’ the trade.  

I think you bring back the band.  I want to see Green and PJ as our 4th/5th guys as Lively grows in year two.  We have a strong and diverse bench in Gafford, Maxi, DJJ, THJ and Exum (or Hardy if Exum is hurt).  I’d prefer to take some time and see what we actually need as this is almost a new team between injuries and trades.  We’ve never seen this combo of players and I’m not sure Green or PJ will be easy to upgrade.  I also like THJ much better with some D and some size around him.  I think our biggest weakness is dealing with Exum’s injuries and Kyrie’s age.  Hayes isn’t some superstar waiting to be discovered.  But, he can give us some minutes of ball handling and size.  If he can be a little better than Frank as a 15th guy, it might be worth giving him some of our remaining MLE on a two year with a TO on the second so we’d have a path to keeping him and DJJ this summer.

Think its kind of early to make any "running it back" assessments.  It will be very interesting to see how Green and PJ progress throughout the rest of the season and playoffs.  With two picks and several good contracts, we will have a lot of options in the offseason.

[KillerLeft]

Think its kind of early to make any "running it back" assessments.  It will be very interesting to see how Green and PJ progress throughout the rest of the season and playoffs.  With two picks and several good contracts, we will have a lot of options in the offseason.

I definitely think it’s too early to assume they’re going to give their MLE (whichever version they’ll have available) to re-sign DJJ. Maybe it works out that way, sure, and if he’s a minimum again (very possible) I’ll for sure be into that.

[ItsGoTime]

It’s all going according to plan. A couple trades at the TDL. Finish out upgrading the roster in the offseason using the 2 FRPs. Sit on that roster for a few years.

[Jym]

It’s all going according to plan. A couple trades at the TDL. Finish out upgrading the roster in the offseason using the 2 FRPs. Sit on that roster for a few years.

A great SF would be nice but I'd be fine turning Timmy's expiring and the 2nd rounders into a useful wing

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Lively and Exum still out tomorrow. I assume they’ll just let them rest until after the break at this point.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I think Exum is definitely going to make more sense coming off the bench.  He is at his most value when one or both of Luka/Kyrie are off the court and his current injury is overuse related.  We probably need to be careful with him and keep his minutes restricted.  Should be easy to do when the team is healthy.

I agree that’s probably his most valuable use on this roster but what I would say is that it shouldn’t be hard to figure out a rotation that starts all three and still accomplishes always keeping 2 of the 3 on the court throughout the game. The question is really whether they find value in having all three playmakers on the floor at once and how they slot the importance of those minutes.

I also agree they’ll bring Exum off the bench most likely because it’s easier that way and because he’s been hurt but I’m just pointing out there is still an argument to have him out there. Green has also played well enough to not lose the spot though imo.

Kidd still hasn’t crowned Green a starter vocally, he’s only done that for Exum, he even mentioned that they were “missing all 5 starters” the other night when Exum and DJJ were both out.

[Scott41theMavs]

I also agree they’ll bring Exum off the bench most likely because it’s easier that way and because he’s been hurt but I’m just pointing out there is still an argument to have him out there. Green has also played well enough to not lose the spot though imo.

This sounds like you're encouraging Kidd to go with a four-guard lineup. Please don't give him such ideas.

[SleepingHero]

I'm not even a THJ fan, but I don't want to lose him and Hardy to resign DJJ. I don't think that makes us a better team. DJJ can resign cheap or walk. He's not going to get a ton of minutes going forward imo. He will definitely be used situationally in the playoffs to try to shut people down.

It's less about replacing THJ with DJJ but more so as using THJ to bring in another complimenting piece AND be able to re-sign DJJ AND potentially another guy with the MLE.

Say we trade THJ for Thybulle, bring back DJJ, and sign someone else at 5-6 mil (Eric Gordon comes to mind).

Is THJ+Hardy+DJJ better than Thybulle, DJJ, Gordon? 

Just throwing out a scenario. I'm bringing up Thybulle because it's obvious Nico wanted him and he tends to keep going after his target even if it didn't workout the first time.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

This sounds like you're encouraging Kidd to go with a four-guard lineup. Please don't give him such ideas.

Oh no definitely not. I’m very sick of those. I didn’t mean to play Exum and Green together if that’s what you mean. Just that I’m leaning Green over Exum (and worded it funny). I think a healthy Maxi was really what we’ve been needing to kill off those 4 guard lineups. PJ just being way bigger eliminates those “smaller” three guard lineups with GWill too which is nice. Rebounds finally seems easy yesterday.

[mvossman]

I'm not even a THJ fan, but I don't want to lose him and Hardy to resign DJJ. I don't think that makes us a better team. DJJ can resign cheap or walk. He's not going to get a ton of minutes going forward imo. He will definitely be used situationally in the playoffs to try to shut people down.

I feel like you are ignoring what we get in Timmy trade. Getting room to sign DJJ is just a bonus (and may not be necessary)

I love discussing off-season and TDL moves, but now is the time to find out what we have.  I think there is a fairly high variance on what we get out of several players and the team as a whole. Hard to know what makes sense in offseason until we get a better grip on what we have now.

[Chicagojk]

I am really hoping Maxi can stay healthy. If so, there is a good chance with the added size of Maxi and Washington, we could be a better rebounding team. Much better than having Grant, DJJ and Hardaway play 4 minutes. I think this and the addition of Gafford may have another potential benefit. It is asking a lot for a 19 year old to anchor a defense. He was dominant in college on defense last year. To be honest I was expecting him to contest more shots at the rim early on. That could be because our defense is really bad and maybe the team asked Lively to be careful picking up touch fouls because we needed him on the floor. I hope with the added size next to Lively and a good backup, Lively can be more aggressive contesting shots.

[mvossman]

I am really hoping Maxi can stay healthy.  If so, there is a good chance with the added size of Maxi and Washington, we could be a better rebounding team.  Much better than having Grant, DJJ and Hardaway play 4 minutes.  I think this and the addition of Gafford may have another potential benefit.  It is asking a lot for a 19 year old to anchor a defense.  He was dominant in college on defense last year.  To be honest I was expecting him to contest more shots at the rim early on.  That could be because our defense is really bad and maybe the team asked Lively to be careful picking up touch fouls because we needed him on the floor.  I hope with the added size next to Lively and a good backup, Lively can be more aggressive contesting shots.

I could see Lively and PJ helping out each other defensively. PJ playing with a legit center and Lively getting more size next to him

[Jakeospikez]

It's still very early but I'd say the more important thing to focus on next offseason is to make sure whatever moves are done doesn't put the cap in a bad spot to risk losing Exum the offseason after. Exum is way more important than DJJ. Getting some more developmental rookie contracts on the cap would be nice too.

[The Jom]

I like DJJ. At the minimum, he’s a steal. But in any kind of bidding war, please let him go. Finally getting to no-bad-contract status is huge. The next time the Mavs have an overpaid player, it should be because they got a something else for it, like another OMax.

[Jason Terry]

It's still very early but I'd say the more important thing to focus on next offseason is to make sure whatever moves are done doesn't put the cap in a bad spot to risk losing Exum the offseason after. Exum is way more important than DJJ. Getting some more developmental rookie contracts on the cap would be nice too.

The good thing about Exum is we will have his full bird rights i believe after his contract is up. So, we could go over the tax and apron to sign him 

Im with you. Adding 1 or 2 developmental players would be a good move. Lawson plus a 2nd rounder would be great