MAVS NEWS: Luka Wins Community Cares Award! | DLive's Mom Passes Away| Maxi OUT

[KillerLeft]

Would you pay that much for a starting center? Gafford is good enough to be a starter on several NBA teams including ours. Stats and minutes I think are relevant. Much of those statistics have been posted. He is still quite young and was being groomed as a starter in Washington.

Furthermore, the center position is rather tricky with a rookie who has to learn to stay out of foul trouble. I can't think of another position on our team so badly in need of an adequate rotation player (and one requested by Luka).

Yes, gladly, but it doesn’t matter if he’s good enough to be a starter because he’s not going to be one here. And if he is, then that blocks Lively, who we already know fits perfectly. But, he won’t. Luka straight up called him a backup center today.

This whole staying out of foul trouble nonsense is another example of people just going with groupthink and not actually watching the games, because foul trouble hasn’t really been a problem for lively this year at all. We were all worried about it before the season, myself included, but I can count on one hand the amount of games where foul trouble has actually been a factor for him. In fact, Kidd just recently did an interview in which he said he’d prefer lively be in MORE foul trouble, because it would mean he was defending the paint a little more aggressively. 

Now, the Mavericks have two centers, again, both of whom I like, and are headed towards the playoffs, where they don’t know yet if they’ll be able to play either of them.

Again, my argument isn’t against either one of the players acquired, both of whom I like, it’s just that I think allocation of resources should be considered, especially when those resources are starting to run out.

[KillerLeft]

In that same tweet, Luka said that he has wanted a good back up center for “like three years already.”

It seems like he is the driving force behind playing with a rim runner for the whole game, and possibly for the movement away from five out. That isn’t lost on me. I like the Gafford acquisition from that perspective.

[SleepingHero]

https://x.com/CGBBURNER/status/1755981024100483545?s=20

Luka Doncic on his relationship with Devin Booker:

“It’s good. Last time we played we didn’t fight, it wasn’t me and him. I told him for one time it’s not us”

[Winter]

Isn't it funny how two people can look at a team and see something entirely different.

Cuban says we need to get bigger and then pretty much describes the player we need - which looks like Gafford more than PJ. Then Luca says he's been wanting a backup center for like three years. But you think our resources should be allocated elsewhere? To me, it feels like we met a serious need.

[youzigizag]

I really think we'll all look back and be happy that Green was kept. He seems like he's finally blossoming into a critical player.

Total speculation by a casual:

I think Josh Green is about to be given his opportunity but is on a somewhat short leash.   It took 4 years, though.  Mavs are still "iffy" on his total skill package but have fallen in love with his work ethic, hustle and game improvement.

I think Kidd and some FO people hate his offensive bag...most notably his dribbling/creating skills and underwhelming ability to finish at rim one on one.

I find Green's name coming up in past few trade sessions(Summer and TDL) interesting.   Seems like Mav's have been trying to find a team that is smitten with Green and cash in....while using the media to claim "Green is off limits" to boost Green's confidence in the Mavs and himself.

Now that Dallas filled some issue areas on the roster...I think they are going to give Josh his chance.   If Josh doesnt hit his 3's or somehow looks lost on defense...I think they move him this Summer or next TDL.

I think they want a more well rounded 2-way at Josh's position and are about to give him a chance to show his worth.   I think he is about to get a bunch of 3 looks that he has to knock down or he is in the dog house.   More Josh, Less Tim.  If Josh fails...More Tim, Less Josh.

Anyone notice last night Mavs played a more organized brand of offense?   Like the past 4 years...they play simple rec ball for first half of season and then after ASB they start showing more of their hand.  Last night they were playing organized ball on quite a few possessions and Green seems like he is about to get a bunch of 3 looks like Bullock did.   If Josh fails...I think they move him.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Love Gafford, but he is a backup center here. I do not think he is worth (to the Mavs) either his salary or the first round pick they had to acquire to give up for him. I think they will be playoff games where he plays eight minutes and everybody here loses their mind, because Kleber is in there instead of him. And, I think it will probably be the right decision to play Kleber in front of him.

I don't think it's going to be a Kleber over Gafford or vice versa situation, I think it will be a 5 out vs pick and roll offense situation so I would hope we do play Maxi more against centers like Gobert or Zubac.  I would hope most people understand why we do that when.  Gafford is an expensive contract for sure but we also have a legitimate claim to having one of the best center rotations in the league now and that's a pretty insane statement from where we were a week ago.

I think the only thing that will have people (or maybe just me) up in arms is if we are paying Gafford all this money and end up playing Dwight those 8 minutes instead because it just hasn't worked out.  I could see that happening this postseason with the hopes that Gafford gets ramped up next season but hopefully Gafford just claims those minutes right away.

[Winter]

Total speculation by a casual:

I think Josh Green is about to be given his opportunity but is on a somewhat short leash.   It took 4 years, though.  Mavs are still "iffy" on his total skill package but have fallen in love with his work ethic, hustle and game improvement.

I think Kidd and some FO people hate his offensive bag...most notably his dribbling/creating skills and underwhelming ability to finish at rim one on one.

I find Green's name coming up in past few trade sessions(Summer and TDL) interesting.   Seems like Mav's have been trying to find a team that is smitten with Green and cash in....while using the media to claim "Green is off limits" to boost Green's confidence in the Mavs and himself.

Now that Dallas filled some issue areas on the roster...I think they are going to give Josh his chance.   If Josh doesnt hit his 3's or somehow looks lost on defense...I think they move him this Summer or next TDL.

I think they want a more well rounded 2-way at Josh's position and are about to give him a chance to show his worth.   I think he is about to get a bunch of 3 looks that he has to knock down or he is in the dog house.   More Josh, Less Tim.  If Josh fails...More Tim, Less Josh.

Anyone notice last night Mavs played a more organized brand of offense?   Like the past 4 years...they play simple rec ball for first half of season and then after ASB they start showing more of their hand.  Last night they were playing organized ball on quite a few possessions and Green seems like he is about to get a bunch of 3 looks like Bullock did.   If Josh fails...I think they move him.

I wonder if there are some advanced metrics on Josh that fans just aren't privy to. It did feel like other teams had an interest in him that I hadn't noticed before.

[Nowitzki Way]

Now, the Mavericks have two centers, again, both of whom I like, and are headed towards the playoffs, where they don’t know yet if they’ll be able to play either of them.

I dont buy this point. We're sitting at the 8 seed right now. 6 of the teams ahead of us have a Center that will play big minutes in the playoffs.  Gafford/Lively might be better than all of them outside of Jokic or Sabonis. 

1. TWolves - Gobert, Kat, Reid  - we finally have some size to go against these guys
2. Nuggets - Jokic - no match for him
3. OKC -  They dont have a Center unless you count Chet
4. Clippers - Zubac - he kills us on the boards but we usually play him off the court by making him guard Luka
5. Suns - Nurkic
6. Pelicans - Jonas V. - You can count fat Zion as center too. 
7. Kings - Sabonis


Bottom line, you'll run up against some tough centers in the west for these playoffs. Our duo will play and be impactful.

[KillerLeft]

Isn't it funny how two people can look at a team and see something entirely different.

Cuban says we need to get bigger and then pretty much describes the player we need - which looks like Gafford more than PJ. Then Luca says he's been wanting a backup center for like three years. But you think our resources should be allocated elsewhere? To me, it feels like we met a serious need.

I would say the player Cuban described is Washington, not Gafford. He talked about a front court player who could dribble and later they talked about adding scoring punch to the front court. That’s Washington. Earlier than that, Nico Harrison did a quick impromptu interview during a game during which he expressed a desire to get a bigger player who “played with force.” Dan and others interpreted that to mean another center, and it turns out they were correct.

Luka (not Luca) did want a backup center. I acknowledged that before you said it. I don’t understand what that has to do with picking this particular backup center, or determining what to pay for it. Hey, I like to pay back up salaries and back up trade costs when I acquire backup players. 

I think what you are trying to suggest is that I don’t value center play as much as Luka or Cuban do, and that might be true. But, it isn’t really germane to the point. I’m trying to make it today. Trusting players to determine the best way forward with the roster is pretty much the playbook Dan Gilbert followed that ruined the Cleveland Cavaliers. I want the Mavericks to win the championship, not just Luka. If/when he leaves, I will still be here.

We don’t have to argue about this all day. I will stop being a buzzkill (didn’t think my opinion would cause this much of an uproar). I just really want the Mavericks to be smart.

[Winter]

I dunno. It didn't really feel like buzzkill from you. Just another day on the message board.

I think ChicagoJK may have had a similar feeling about resources as he mentioned he wasn't sure he would have done this deal. So you weren't alone.

[KillerLeft]

Bottom line, you'll run up against some tough centers in the west for these playoffs.

Oh, sure they will! It’s just that you and I see different strategies for how to deal with that. 

You seem to care about matching up with them, whereas I see an opportunity to punish them easily for even attempting to play some slow-footed, single-brain-cell dinosaur in a basketball game against my team of movers and shooters. 

Earlier this season, I claimed that I would not be scared one bit of playing the Minnesota Timberwolves in a seven game series. I am actually more frightened of that prospect now than I was before the trade deadline, because the economics of the mavericks roster indicate that they believe as you do, that you have to throw big players at KAT, Gobert and Reid. That seems silly to me, because we literally watched our own mavericks team create the blueprint for how to beat Gobert, and it involved Kleber hitting 8 threes from the corner in a single game and Gobert looking like he did not even belong in the NBA.

They WANT you to try to matchup with their size. That is their entire strategy. That is how they beat you. They have zigged, and the way to beat them is to zag. Plus, it’s just a cooler way of playing basketball that is 1000 times more fun to watch.

[Nowitzki Way]

Oh, sure they will! It’s just that you and I see different strategies for how to deal with that. 

You seem to care about matching up with them, whereas I see an opportunity to punish them easily for even attempting to play some slow-footed, single-brain-cell dinosaur in a basketball game against my team of movers and shooters. 

Earlier this season, I claimed that I would not be scared one bit of playing the Minnesota Timberwolves in a seven game series. I am actually more frightened of that prospect now than I was before the trade deadline, because the economics of the mavericks roster indicate that they believe as you do, that you have to throw big players at KAT, Gobert and Reid. That seems silly to me, because we literally watched our own mavericks team create the blueprint for how to beat Gobert, and it involved Kleber hitting 8 threes from the corner in a single game and Gobert looking like he did not even belong in the NBA.

They WANT you to try to matchup with their size. That is their entire strategy. That is how they beat you. They have zigged, and the way to beat them is to zag. Plus, it’s just a cooler way of playing basketball that is 1000 times more fun to watch.

Your strategy is not wrong, its quite genius. We've ran the Goberts and the Zubacs off the court in playoff series of past. 

But we dont have 2021 Maxi anymore. We dont have anyone capable of playing small ball 5 and drawing out those bigs.  We would need to play straight up, and if so we'd get killed on the inside.

Now we have a more fighting chance with Gafford/Washington.  Of course, if Maxi continues playing like he is, we'll probably end up playing closer to your style.

[SleepingHero]

Oh, sure they will! It’s just that you and I see different strategies for how to deal with that. 

You seem to care about matching up with them, whereas I see an opportunity to punish them easily for even attempting to play some slow-footed, single-brain-cell dinosaur in a basketball game against my team of movers and shooters. 

Earlier this season, I claimed that I would not be scared one bit of playing the Minnesota Timberwolves in a seven game series. I am actually more frightened of that prospect now than I was before the trade deadline, because the economics of the mavericks roster indicate that they believe as you do, that you have to throw big players at KAT, Gobert and Reid. That seems silly to me, because we literally watched our own mavericks team create the blueprint for how to beat Gobert, and it involved Kleber hitting 8 threes from the corner in a single game and Gobert looking like he did not even belong in the NBA.

They WANT you to try to matchup with their size. That is their entire strategy. That is how they beat you. They have zigged, and the way to beat them is to zag. Plus, it’s just a cooler way of playing basketball that is 1000 times more fun to watch.

You're absolutely correct here.

But what I might be confused about is that the Mavs can still play that way...? They have Maxi to play 5 out if they need to. PJ has shot close to 41% on catch and shoot threes for his career AND can play small ball 5 if needed. Mavs now have the ability to play big AND small. 

All I've seen with these deals is that the Mavs got even more flexible with the ability to play 48 minutes of pure Lively ball and if needed go 5 out super small with Maxi and a MUCH more effective (on paper) Grant Williams.

I'm like surfpuckmd in that I wasn't elated with the PJ deal. I was kind of out on him before the TDL and didn't want to give up the 2027. But I still understood why the Mavs wanted him and the upside was there. The jury is out if he will fit. But if he does, we saw how good this team looked with a 15ppg stretch 4 in the first 10 games when Grant Williams was effective.

So I'm optimistic.

[KillerLeft]

You're absolutely correct here.

But what I might be confused about is that the Mavs can still play that way...? They have Maxi to play 5 out if they need to. PJ has shot close to 41% on catch and shoot threes for his career AND can play small ball 5 if needed. Mavs now have the ability to play big AND small. 

All I've seen with these deals is that the Mavs got even more flexible with the ability to play 48 minutes of pure Lively ball and if needed go 5 out super small with Maxi and a MUCH more effective (on paper) Grant Williams.

I'm like surfpuckmd in that I wasn't elated with the PJ deal. I was kind of out on him before the TDL and didn't want to give up the 2027. But I still understood why the Mavs wanted him and the upside was there. The jury is out if he will fit. But if he does, we saw how good this team looked with a 15ppg stretch 4 in the first 10 games when Grant Williams was effective.

So I'm optimistic.

That's true, now that you mention it. Good call. Washington doubles down on Kleber a little like Gafford doubles down on Lively.

[omahen]

I dont buy this point. We're sitting at the 8 seed right now. 6 of the teams ahead of us have a Center that will play big minutes in the playoffs.  Gafford/Lively might be better than all of them outside of Jokic or Sabonis. 

1. TWolves - Gobert, Kat, Reid  - we finally have some size to go against these guys
2. Nuggets - Jokic - no match for him
3. OKC -  They dont have a Center unless you count Chet
4. Clippers - Zubac - he kills us on the boards but we usually play him off the court by making him guard Luka
5. Suns - Nurkic
6. Pelicans - Jonas V. - You can count fat Zion as center too. 
7. Kings - Sabonis


Bottom line, you'll run up against some tough centers in the west for these playoffs. Our duo will play and be impactful.

I would counter that best counter weapon for most of this centers is to play five out and take them out of the paint. Zubac, Gobert and Nurkic are limited offensively.

[WillE]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_...contenders

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/27...-Wrong-Way


The Mavs couldn't wait to dump Grant Williams.

[dirkfansince1998]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/27...-Wrong-Way


The Mavs couldn't wait to dump Grant Williams.

Honestly makes me even less confident about the new additions. Seems like they didn't do their due diligence when they signed him last summer. If the off court stuff is as big of an issue as it seems it probably was the same story in Boston.
There are at least some rumors that PJ isn't a pro's pro. Hopefully the Mavs aren't in for another rude awakening.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

Honestly makes me even less confident about the new additions. Seems like they didn't do their due diligence when they signed him last summer. If the off court stuff is as big of an issue as it seems it probably was the same story in Boston.
There are at least some rumors that PJ isn't a pro's pro. Hopefully the Mavs aren't in for another rude awakening.

If he can control all his "Baby Mama Drama" he should be just fine.  

[KillerLeft]

Man, I have to stop checking in with people’s opinions of these trades. The guys from Dunc’d On are some of my favorites. They understand the cap, the rules, are comfortable dealing in advance stats, but also clearly watch pretty much every single NBA game that ever happens and so the they always have educated opinions about these players. They trashed the Mavs’ moves even more than others.

“Several more arrows going out of the quiver, with no championship-level starters coming in”

“They added two more seventh men to a team full of seventh men and paid multiple firsts to do it.”

“I guess maybe Gafford is an ok defender, but then again he is the center on the league’s worst defense. He can’t defend in the post and fouls way too much.”

“Washington is an offensive upgrade to Williams, but is he going to hit more of the standstill shots? Are they actually going to use the things that he can do better than Williams?”

“They now don’t control their pic for basically a four year block, and you have to imagine that at least one of those years will include a top 10 pick, unless they’re able to retain Luka for that entire time, which these moves make me less sure of.” (Other guy) “Agreed.”

On and on and on. I am getting thoroughly depressed listening to this stuff. The Lowe Post didn’t like the moves much, either.

I think we might’ve just witnessed the nail in the Luka Doncic era coffin.