TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[F Gump]

If you think he’s being highly overrated, you’re reading too much into defending him against THJ’s skillset, especially for this team. Bogdan is basically a lesser JB who would come off the bench. He’s basically what we need THJ to be. I also believe he is worth more than THJ. That’s the basis for adding Maxi to the trade (that and I believe Collins has more value than Wood) and I didn’t want to add draft capital to the trade as I don’t think Atl is really looking for that.

"you’re reading too much into defending him against THJ’s skillset" .... I don't know what that means.

FWIW I wasn't trying to do a comparison of who is better of Bogi versus THJ at all (because I think ATL is done, making the idea moot), but was just reacting to the descriptions of Bogi vs what I have seen when he plays (and his numbers say the same thing).

I see Bogi as pretty much a traditional 2-guard. THJ too. And I don't think a 2-guard skill set fills this hole on the roster, any more than THJ would. Instead, they need another 1-guard, having discovered something when having the manpower to play 2 of those at a time, all the time. It really unlocks Luka's significant advantage he has when he can play off the ball, and abuse smaller or slower defenders in the post. Or use his gravity to open the floor elsewhere for opportunities for others, without him needing to handle the ball to do it.

[ItsGoTime]

"you’re reading too much into defending him against THJ’s skillset" .... I don't know what that means.

You saying we’re highly overrating Bogdan’s skillset when all we’ve been doing is defending our stance on Bogdan being better than THJ for the trade discussion. We have been saying he is a better creator for other players than THJ, is that not true? Everything said positive about Bogdan is in the context of a comparison between him and THJ. So you coming in the middle of it saying we’re highly overrating Bogdan’s skillset is off IMO.

If you want to discuss Bogdan outside of a comparison to THJ, that should have been the first thing you said in your entry into the discussion. Otherwise you just look like you’re defending the THJ is better than Bogdan stance.

[Mapka]

If you want to discuss Bogdan outside of a comparison to THJ, that should have been the first thing you said in your entry into the discussion. Otherwise you just look like you’re defending the THJ is better than Bogdan stance.

Reading is an art.

I said Bogdanovic is not the player we need and a worse fit than THJ.

[mvossman]

"you’re reading too much into defending him against THJ’s skillset" .... I don't know what that means.

FWIW I wasn't trying to do a comparison of who is better of Bogi versus THJ at all (because I think ATL is done, making the idea moot), but was just reacting to the descriptions of Bogi vs what I have seen when he plays (and his numbers say the same thing).

I see Bogi as pretty much a traditional 2-guard. THJ too. And I don't think a 2-guard skill set fills this hole on the roster, any more than THJ would. Instead, they need another 1-guard, having discovered something when having the manpower to play 2 of those at a time, all the time. It really unlocks Luka's significant advantage he has when he can play off the ball, and abuse smaller or slower defenders in the post. Or use his gravity to open the floor elsewhere for opportunities for others, without him needing to handle the ball to do it.

I don't think anybody argued that Bogi should be a target for the third playmaker, only that he would fit the role when necessary better than Timmy.  The numbers do bear that out.  He is a better P&R ball handler and has a higher assist rate.  It does not really matter, if they were going to do a trade like that they already would have.  Don't really see how any of the pending big trades would effect it, and I don't see them waiting on a trade like this because of Harkless.

[ItsGoTime]

I don't think anybody argued that Bogi should be a target for the third playmaker, only that he would fit the role when necessary better than Timmy.  The numbers do bear that out.  He is a better P&R ball handler and has a higher assist rate.  It does not really matter, if they were going to do a trade like that they already would have.  Don't really see how any of the pending big trades would effect it, and I don't see them waiting on a trade like this because of Harkless.

Can’t trade Wood til Aug 23 either.

[ItsGoTime]

Reading is an art.

I said Bogdanovic is not the player we need and a worse fit than THJ.

Yes it is, I didn’t say anything contrary to that stance. Bog is a better fit simply in the sense that he is used to the role he would play here as opposed to THJ saying and thinking he is a starter and his play off the bench has so far reflected that. He is also the better player in just about every single stat and has been consistent in those stats even after trading teams suggesting you can plug and play those stats if traded here. He also would have more value in trade than THJ if he doesn’t show to be the right piece.

[Mapka]

Yes it is, I didn’t say anything contrary to that stance. Bog is a better fit simply in the sense that he is used to the role he would play here as opposed to THJ saying and thinking he is a starter and his play off the bench has so far reflected that. He is also the better player in just about every single stat and has been consistent in those stats even after trading teams suggesting you can plug and play those stats if traded here. He also would have more value in trade than THJ if he doesn’t show to be the right piece.

The disagreement seems to be, you think we can solve our playmaking deficit this way.
I think we have to get a real answer for that problem, and if we find that answer, THJ is the way better fit.

[KillerLeft]

The disagreement seems to be, you think we can solve our playmaking deficit this way.
I think we have to get a real answer for that problem, and if we find that answer, THJ is the way better fit.

I kind of agree with this one.

Bogi, to me, has never really moved the needle. He’s good at a well rounded list of stuff, and he is a player you can make room for on your team, for sure. But, for me, no one thing he offers is as high-level as the spacing THJ provides as a catch and shoot threat. 

It’s a pretty good conversation. I think the players are actually of similar value.

[mvossman]

The disagreement seems to be, you think we can solve our playmaking deficit this way.
I think we have to get a real answer for that problem, and if we find that answer, THJ is the way better fit.

How are we going to find that answer without sending out THJ or somebody more valuable to this team?  My contention is:

1.  Bogdan is not an ideal target to fit what we need.
2.  Baring other moves, he is a better fit than Timmy for our third guard spot.

If your argument is that you would prefer to scrape up vet min guy to fill the 3rd playmaker role for this entire season, and use significant assets to get a third playmaker/creator next offseason, then I guess that could make some sense.  Given that the likelihood that trade involves Timmy/Bogi (whoever is on the team) sent out for salary matching, I would prefer a Timmy for Bogi trade than relying on vet min for 3rd PG.

[F Gump]

If you want to discuss Bogdan outside of a comparison to THJ, that should have been the first thing you said in your entry into the discussion. Otherwise you just look like you’re defending the THJ is better than Bogdan stance.

There was nothing I wrote that compared Bogi to THJ. I was comparing Bogi to the job, and his fit. If you didn't get that, my apologies for not communicating better.

As I said ... I am not wildly enthusiastic about THJ (as to his ability to fill the gaping hole). But I think Bogi's skill set filling that hole is being massively overrated. Whether Bogi is a bit better or a bit worse as a player overall than THJ is imo not relevant (UNLESS he can fill the gaping hole).

I've said enough. I don't think either Dallas or ATL is looking at any of this swap stuff, so hashing out the theoretical fine points of who might be better than whom and debating one opinion vs another serving is kinda pointless.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

There was nothing I wrote that compared Bogi to THJ. I was comparing Bogi to the job, and his fit. If you didn't get that, my apologies for not communicating better.

As I said ... I am not wildly enthusiastic about THJ (as to his ability to fill the gaping hole). But I think Bogi's skill set filling that hole is being massively overrated. Whether Bogi is a bit better or a bit worse as a player overall than THJ is imo not relevant (UNLESS he can fill the gaping hole).

I've said enough. I don't think either Dallas or ATL is looking at any of this swap stuff, so hashing out the theoretical fine points of who might be better than whom and debating one opinion vs another serving is kinda pointless.

Atlanta traded one of they're better 3 pt shooters in Kevin Huerter to the Kings.  I didn't understand it and still don't even though they got two players Justin Holiday and Mo Harkless and a future 1st. So I don't think they'll move on from Bogie unless they find equal value.

[F Gump]

Atlanta traded one of they're better 3 pt shooters in Kevin Huerter to the Kings.  I didn't understand it and still don't even though they got two players Justin Holiday and Mo Harkless and a future 1st.

They wanted to get out of his contract. They took back expiring salary and a 1st rounder. They will hope Holiday or Harkless can offer them a bit of what they lost in Huerter, of course.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

They wanted to get out of his contract. They took back expiring salary and a 1st rounder. They will hope Holiday or Harkless can offer them a bit of what they lost in Huerter, of course.

 

Thanks. Didn't know he had a big contract.

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Can Mavs Pull Off Eric Gordon Trade with Rockets? (msn.com)



All speculation I guess.  But would he fit?

[KillerLeft]

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Can Mavs Pull Off Eric Gordon Trade with Rockets? (msn.com)



All speculation I guess.  But would he fit?

I think Gordon would help this team. It wouldn't be sexy, but he'd help. I would do the deal if it could be done with only the players mentioned, but wouldn't include a first.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...8728340484

[ItsGoTime]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...8728340484

Which FO doesn’t have big fans of his? So dumb.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Which FO doesn’t have big fans of his? So dumb.

Agreed. He's talented.  A lot of teams would love to have him onboard at the right price.

[ItsGoTime]

 

Thanks. Didn't know he had a big contract.

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Can Mavs Pull Off Eric Gordon Trade with Rockets? (msn.com)



All speculation I guess.  But would he fit?

I don’t think Hou would budge from wanting a first for him. I also think we already have him on our team in THJ. I see no reason to go after him if THJ is still here.

[cow]

Which FO doesn’t have big fans of his? So dumb.

To add "dumb" to the mix, I prefer him to Tatum.

[F Gump]

I don’t think Hou would budge from wanting a first for him. I also think we already have him on our team in THJ. I see no reason to go after him if THJ is still here.

It's an easy call that the Mavs have no reason to trade for Gordon with THJ here, as you point out.

The obvious swap would be THJ for Gordon. But I'm not sure that getting Gordon would be the more desirable end of the deal. Offering a first for him would be dumb.

Stats are incredibly similar. Contracts are about the same this year.

But THJ is 4 years younger. OTOH his deal has 2 more years after this one, while EG's will expire. But THJ's deal will get smaller each year, if you want a reasonably priced player rather than air.