Poll: Do the Mavs finally have a good defensive game against the Warriors? O/U Warriors FG%- 43.5
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PLAYOFF WCF GAME 3: GSW (3-0) vs. DAL (0-3) | 100-109 loss
(05-23-2022, 02:26 PM)michaeltex Wrote: I disagree because the mega $$s in Gobert's contract will handcuff the Mavs severely in putting a team together. Worse than the KP mistake. You might address (somewhat) the needs in the middle, but you'll not get an solutions to the other issues that need addressing. Granted, he does a pretty good job as a rim protector, but if/when he gets pulled to the perimeter he's going to be a liability.

Not pretty good. The dude is a 3 time DPOY and a 5 time All Defense. He's a stud at the 5. You don't have to worry about him getting pulled to the perimeter. Dallas has better wing defenders. Gobert has never played with a group as good as DFS, Maxi, and Bullock. 

If Gobert gets pulled out to the perimeter a couple of help defenders come in to block off the paint. Dribble drives would STOP completely. It's those easy plays that are destroying the Mavs right now against GS. Once Curry and Klay see a couple of those go in the 3s start raining.

You could also run a zone like the Mavs ran in 2011 with Gobert patrolling the paint in the Chandler role. He's Tyson Chandler on steriods.

It also would have put Phx out in 5-6 instead of 7 giving them more in the tank for this round. If they brought in Gobert and a couple of guys like Nic Batum, Rodney Hood, etc to shore up the wing spot on the bench these guys would be really hard to beat.

I would also take a flyer on Mo Bamba since he's likely to be available for bench depth. 

The key defenders are DFS, Bullock, and Maxi. Maxi shouldn't be a heavy minutes guy though. DFS and Bullock don't need to be defending for 39 mpg. That's why the shots aren't falling. You get them down in the 32 mpg range and you'll see the shots start falling again. Powell is a regular season rim runner. I expect he will end up in Indy soon. Rick loved him.
We didn't make the cut but thanks for all the support!
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Gobert at his salary just seems like too much to commit to for the next 4 years. I’m sure they can find someone better than Powell via trade or the tax MLE, I just don’t want them to put all their eggs in one basket the way they did with KP.
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Glad to see folks coming around on Gobert. 

I still like John Collins over him, but Gobert is next on my wish list.
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It’s inescapable to me that Gobert is the most impactful defensive player in the NBA for this entire generation of players. He doesn’t really hurt you on offense, but he doesn’t help much either. He was a handful for the Mavs. I feel the same about Luka, just the opposite direction. Offense is far more important in the NBA than defense, so I’m not saying Gobert = Luka by any means. Still, you’ve got to have both, and I’m intrigued by the possibility of pairing the game’s best offensive and defensive players who both excel in the half court.  Gobert is way better than KP and stays relatively healthy, so I don’t even think of it as that risky of an investment.  The problem is how do you get him? Who do you give up?  It seems unrealistic. The Mavs are probably going to need to solve their problems by finding a distressed or undervalued asset and turning him to gold.
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(05-23-2022, 11:26 AM)cow Wrote: The good news is that we are going to win the next four.

I do totally believe in this. Playoffs is all about counters. If we do the counter in next game, there is no way back for GSW. So to me, is all about the next game. I predict Mavs in 7.
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(05-23-2022, 05:18 PM)Dirknows Wrote: Gobert at his salary just seems like too much to commit to for the next 4 years. I’m sure they can find someone better than Powell via trade or the tax MLE, I just don’t want them to put all their eggs in one basket the way they did with KP.

Pretty much.  His contract is one you will not be able to course correct from.
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(05-23-2022, 02:05 PM)mvossman Wrote: In my mind we have two options this offseason, go for the big move now to make us true contenders next season, or shore up the gapping holes (sign Brunson and get a center) and make the big move the following offseason, when we have access to all of our picks and a little more room to maneuver with contracts.

If we are going big move this offseason, then its hard to see a better target than Gobert.  He is a perfect fit with Luka, and by far the highest impact player that will actually be available and possibly attainable with our limited assets (due to his enormous contract).

Personally my preference would be to shore up the center position this offseason, and then make the big move next offseason for an elite two way player that would fit with Luka (like the Bucks did with Jrue), but I could be talked into Gobert if the price was right.

I wonder if making it to the WCF's emboldens them toward the go-for-it-now plan.  I can't imagine it helped "team patient".  Audiosway has articulated well my feelings on Gobert.  The reason I responded to this post is the part about "if the price was right".  The money doesn't bother me.  He's worth what he gets paid (Defense is half the game and he's not exactly a slouch on O).  Plus, we'll be sending out salary to match some large portion of the incoming.

I'd love to get this done and still have the three guards and three defenders on the roster when its done plus one of the junior wings (so, Gobert, Maxi, DFS, Bullock, SD, JB Luka and either Josh or Frank).  Anyone else and up to two future picks are fair game for me.  That doesn't feel realistic, but who knows given the devaluation of the center position going on right now.
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(05-23-2022, 05:18 PM)Dirknows Wrote: Gobert at his salary just seems like too much to commit to for the next 4 years. I’m sure they can find someone better than Powell via trade or the tax MLE, I just don’t want them to put all their eggs in one basket the way they did with KP.

When you're a playoff team that can make it past round one but don't have enough to be a real contender you need to take bold swings. Think Toronto with Kawhi, look at what Milwaukee gave up to get Jrue Holiday. Gobert has a much cleaner bill of health than KP so it doesn't feel as risky depending on what we would have to give up
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(05-23-2022, 05:20 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Glad to see folks coming around on Gobert. 

I still like John Collins over him, but Gobert is next on my wish list.

I think Collins is less getable due to age and reasonable contract.  The appeal of Gobert is the possibility of getting him without breaking up the core.
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(05-23-2022, 06:35 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I wonder if making it to the WCF's emboldens them toward the go-for-it-now plan.  I can't imagine it helped "team patient".  Audiosway has articulated well my feelings on Gobert.  The reason I responded to this post is the part about "if the price was right".  The money doesn't bother me.  He's worth what he gets paid (Defense is half the game and he's not exactly a slouch on O).  Plus, we'll be sending out salary to match some large portion of the incoming.

I'd love to get this done and still have the three guards and three defenders on the roster when its done plus one of the junior wings (so, Gobert, Maxi, DFS, Bullock, SD, JB Luka and either Josh or Frank).  Anyone else and up to two future picks are fair game for me.  That doesn't feel realistic, but who knows given the devaluation of the center position going on right now.

By price is right I am referring to assets.  If you are sending out some combination of Bertans/THJ/Powell and 2 firsts, I am probably in.  I think they will probably get a better offer, and better offers from the Mavs quickly get to the point where its no longer a win now move because you have given up too much of the core that you can't readily replace.
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(05-23-2022, 06:32 PM)cow Wrote: Pretty much.  His contract is one you will not be able to course correct from.

This dude says hello:


[Image: 1240499142.0.jpg]
We didn't make the cut but thanks for all the support!
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(05-23-2022, 11:40 PM)audiosway Wrote: This dude says hello:


[Image: 1240499142.0.jpg]

He's an all time great player.
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(05-23-2022, 06:35 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: I wonder if making it to the WCF's emboldens them toward the go-for-it-now plan.  I can't imagine it helped "team patient".  Audiosway has articulated well my feelings on Gobert.  The reason I responded to this post is the part about "if the price was right".  The money doesn't bother me.  He's worth what he gets paid (Defense is half the game and he's not exactly a slouch on O).  Plus, we'll be sending out salary to match some large portion of the incoming.

I'd love to get this done and still have the three guards and three defenders on the roster when its done plus one of the junior wings (so, Gobert, Maxi, DFS, Bullock, SD, JB Luka and either Josh or Frank).  Anyone else and up to two future picks are fair game for me.  That doesn't feel realistic, but who knows given the devaluation of the center position going on right now.

I think there are two big arguments for "Team Patient" (Or team "Mostly Patient," I think we all agree we need a starting center and backup wing next year)

1. This team is not that far from being able to beat the Warriors. I think it's plausible that this same team with Holmes and Batum added, and another year of experience, is beating the Warriors right now. The immediate need right now is depth, and all-in moves don't add depth, they deplete it (in favor of top-level talent acquisition). Any time your team plays beyond expectations, you also want to be careful not to upset chemistry-- we've seen just this year how important that can be with the addition-by-subtraction of KP.

2. The Mavs' asset-bank is probably about as low as it can get right now. THJ is coming off an injury, Dinwiddie and Bertans still have several years left, Green might never be worth anything, and we can't even think about sending future picks without tipping New York for the privilege of removing the protection on our '22 (that itself would be a risky move, even if complete disaster is unlikely). Furthermore, is that final piece really available right now? Someone who is undeniably worth going all-in for?

In my mind, the final piece for this team is a three-level scorer, who particularly excels at off-ball shooting, but can also punish teams who overplay him on the perimeter. In addition, he should be at least as long and proficient on defense as Bullock. I can't view Gobert as the final piece, because he doesn't make us better on offense, and in fact might hinder us from playing Luka's (and Brunson's) best, ideal form of 5-out offense.
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(05-24-2022, 02:05 AM)Branduil Wrote: I think there are two big arguments for "Team Patient" (Or team "Mostly Patient," I think we all agree we need a starting center and backup wing next year)

1. This team is not that far from being able to beat the Warriors. I think it's plausible that this same team with Holmes and Batum added, and another year of experience, is beating the Warriors right now. The immediate need right now is depth, and all-in moves don't add depth, they deplete it (in favor of top-level talent acquisition). Any time your team plays beyond expectations, you also want to be careful not to upset chemistry-- we've seen just this year how important that can be with the addition-by-subtraction of KP.

2. The Mavs' asset-bank is probably about as low as it can get right now. THJ is coming off an injury, Dinwiddie and Bertans still have several years left, Green might never be worth anything, and we can't even think about sending future picks without tipping New York for the privilege of removing the protection on our '22 (that itself would be a risky move, even if complete disaster is unlikely). Furthermore, is that final piece really available right now? Someone who is undeniably worth going all-in for?

In my mind, the final piece for this team is a three-level scorer, who particularly excels at off-ball shooting, but can also punish teams who overplay him on the perimeter. In addition, he should be at least as long and proficient on defense as Bullock. I can't view Gobert as the final piece, because he doesn't make us better on offense, and in fact might hinder us from playing Luka's (and Brunson's) best, ideal form of 5-out offense.

Shame I can only like this post once.

100% perfect analysis of our roster situation.

We should not be in a rush this summer at all. We should look to increase depth with a nice mixture of (cheap) youth and veteran experience, then let our assets appreciate over time before making some bigger moves at the TDL or next summer.
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(05-24-2022, 02:05 AM)Branduil Wrote: I think there are two big arguments for "Team Patient" (Or team "Mostly Patient," I think we all agree we need a starting center and backup wing next year)

1. This team is not that far from being able to beat the Warriors. I think it's plausible that this same team with Holmes and Batum added, and another year of experience, is beating the Warriors right now. The immediate need right now is depth, and all-in moves don't add depth, they deplete it (in favor of top-level talent acquisition). Any time your team plays beyond expectations, you also want to be careful not to upset chemistry-- we've seen just this year how important that can be with the addition-by-subtraction of KP.

2. The Mavs' asset-bank is probably about as low as it can get right now. THJ is coming off an injury, Dinwiddie and Bertans still have several years left, Green might never be worth anything, and we can't even think about sending future picks without tipping New York for the privilege of removing the protection on our '22 (that itself would be a risky move, even if complete disaster is unlikely). Furthermore, is that final piece really available right now? Someone who is undeniably worth going all-in for?

In my mind, the final piece for this team is a three-level scorer, who particularly excels at off-ball shooting, but can also punish teams who overplay him on the perimeter. In addition, he should be at least as long and proficient on defense as Bullock. I can't view Gobert as the final piece, because he doesn't make us better on offense, and in fact might hinder us from playing Luka's (and Brunson's) best, ideal form of 5-out offense.

Good post.  This where I am at the moment.  Priorities are:

1.  Sign Brunson (any other scenario is disaster)

2.  Get big depth.  We have several expiring contracts, the 22 first at draft night, the TPE and the tax MLE.  If you are sending the pick it needs to be young depth.

3.  Get wing depth.  Not sure we will have the resources to do this after getting big depth but it would be nice.  In the above scenario I am not sending out THJ which would help, and Green and Frank have possibility to improve so there are internal options for this.
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