DRAFT: #18 [Green] & #31 [Terry] & trade for #36 [Tyler Bey]

[khaled1987]

DFS is a good starter in playoff team under great contract,  who is now a well recognised player for NBA fans. He is also fairly young at 27.

Nah, I won't give DFS + 18 for 10 tbh.
For me, his value is higher than Saric.

That said, if there is someone the MBT are fully in love with as a potential superstar then yes, you do it and hope it works

[loki]

DFS would be incredible off the bench. If he's in the starting lineup, I think Dallas needs upgrades at both the 2 and 4. I wouldn't hesitate to give him up for #10 if a player the Mavs are targeting is still on the board. I've been going back and forth over whether it would be better to move Kleber or DFS for #10, and I'm still kind of torn.

[cjeter24]

There was some guy on this board who spent last offseason claiming that DFS was about to claim a starting spot by showing up with a 3 pt shot (that he'd been working on for years, and had finally figured out) in his back pocket

There was a group of us on the old board. I referred to us as the DFS truthers at one point in time ha.

[DanSchwartzgan]

DFS would be incredible off the bench. If he's in the starting lineup, I think Dallas needs upgrades at both the 2 and 4. I wouldn't hesitate to give him up for #10 if a player the Mavs are targeting is still on the board. I've been going back and forth over whether it would be better to move Kleber or DFS for #10, and I'm still kind of torn.

I suppose it depends on who is easier to replace using the MLE or other trade assets?

[fifteenth]

There was some guy on this board who spent last offseason claiming that DFS was about to claim a starting spot by showing up with a 3 pt shot (that he'd been working on for years, and had finally figured out) in his back pocket

There was a group of us on the old board. I referred to us as the DFS truthers at one point in time ha.

shhhhh....I was shamelessly trying to talk up my own greatness  

[dirkfansince1998]

Do we still expect Cuban to use cash in the next few days? If the answer is yes. What is the best possible outcome?

[cow]

Hayes will be long gone by pick 10.

[KillerLeft]

Man, I can't believe how different people's takes DFS are. Imo, he's being wildly overrated and wildly underrated in the same thread.

@"Kammrath" I agree that focusing on adding YOUTH is looking better and better. Don't overreact. Just make smart moves and continue to build. I'm with you, that far. 

I just don't know how you can be so sure that Hayes is a 'STAR'...he's not Pokusevski or Giannis, who only certiain teams knew enough about to like. He's not even Luka, who some teams were stereotypically skeptical of. In fact, I think the Luka-effect MIGHT be (might) that guys like Hayes and Avdija are getting boosted, slightly. I just feel like if teams thought he'd be a star, more of them would be onto it.  

I like Hayes, don't get me wrong, but it's weird that you like him THIS much, especially since you seem to weight athletic ability and measurables so much more with every other player comp.  Help me understand.

---

Do we still expect Cuban to use cash in the next few days? If the answer is yes. What is the best possible outcome?

No. At least, I don't. 

Think about all the AAC workers and supplementary employees he carried during the shutdown. I'd be shocked if the Mavs, as a business entity, wasn't operating at a loss, or at least in danger of it.

[fifteenth]

focusing on adding YOUTH

[Scott41theMavs]

1 day until the draft. 30 and a half hours, to be exact. 2 days until the option deadlines. Free agency evidently began yesterday, per the Kings and Bucks.

[KillerLeft]

Hayes will be long gone by pick 10.

Very possible. Which will be frustrating to me, as we'll never get to learn whether all this speculation was accurate or not.

[Mavs2019]

Other than Luka and KP, an argument can be made that DFS was our 3rd best player in the playoffs. He practically shutdown Paul George in the Clippers series and had some really good games.

Put up 10/6/3 offensively, too. Covington put up 11/5/1 in the same play-offs.

He´s also developing a reptuation and making $4 f´n million. His trade value is at least a lottery protected 1st imho. It´s definitely higher than trading up eight spots in the middle of the first round of a flat draft.

[Davevoid]

FWIW, the Ringer's Kevin O'Connor - who's quite connected around the league - has Hayes rated as the top prospect. So he'll be the fifth pick at least, propably even higher.

I mean, the T'Wolves and Hornets are pretty bad at this whole draft thing, but I can see the Warriors taking him at #2.

[ClutchDirk]

[KillerLeft]

FWIW, the Ringer's Kevin O'Connor - who's quite connected around the league - has Hayes rated as the top prospect. So he'll be the fifth pick at least, propably even higher.

I mean, the T'Wolves and Hornets are pretty bad at this whole draft thing, but I can see the Warriors taking him at #2.

Yeah, we're all up on that. We've talked about all of this for weeks and weeks. @"Kammrath" does a great job of keeping this thread packed with all the info you could ever want on most of the prospects, not just his favorites. We've had access to hours of film on the guys, too. 

I like him a lot, but not many people have Hayes as high as O'Conner. And, he's just not athletically gifted. Skills-wise, he can't use his right hand at all (yet) which could be a bigger deal for a left-handed ball-handler than it would be for a right-handed guy who wasn't great with his left at that age. And, in a post-Luka world, I find it hard to believe that the Mavs have a huge advantage over other teams when scouting European players who play in the GOOD leagues. The smaller, more obscure leagues, maybe. And, they're probably still among the best when it comes to discovering the prospects EARLY. But I'd be that every team is focusing a little harder on those good European leagues these days, specifically because of Luka.

---

He´s also developing a reptuation and making $4 f´n million. His trade value is at least a lottery protected 1st imho. It´s definitely higher than trading up eight spots in the middle of the first round of a flat draft.

This is interesting. The takes on DFS's value are so far apart, and with smart people on both sides, that I feel like I'm getting farther away from understanding what's real on the topic.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

FWIW, the Ringer's Kevin O'Connor - who's quite connected around the league - has Hayes rated as the top prospect. So he'll be the fifth pick at least, propably even higher.

I mean, the T'Wolves and Hornets are pretty bad at this whole draft thing, but I can see the Warriors taking him at #2.

KOC's ratings are based all his own opinion, which I totally respect when people put their own opinions out there and don't just use groupthink, but he's not regurgitating consensus around the league.    He's got Tyrell Terry #8 in his rankings. 


To counter, Zach Lowe interviewed Mike Schmitz and Jonathan Givony on his podcast and neither are nearly as high as on Hayes.    Both guys have him outside their top 5 guards, much less Top 5 overall.   Givony said he has Hayes going #12 to Sacramento in his final mock draft, and when he talks to teams they have absolutely no idea where he is going to go.    And he said it wouldn't shock him if he fell out of the lottery because it's hard to find a home for him. 


Hayes team in Ulm basically built this gigantic $25 million basketball academy because they essentially want to be the Kentucky Wildcats of the Euros.  They want to entice the elite global young talent to come to their team for 1 year to showcase their skills for a year before they go to the NBA.    Hayes was a huge signing for them, so they basically showcased him all year and let him play Harden-ball and spread everyone out so he could do whatever he wanted to make him look as good as possible, get drafted highly and they can pitch it to the next crop of elite 17 year olds.  He had 8 turnovers in his first game in a pretty bad German League, and they just let him play through it because he was the face of their Basketball Academy.  That's not going to happen in the NBA.  That's not to say he can't be an elite player one day, but this is definitely going to be a developmental work in process. 


That's not to say Hayes can't go high.  Its not a top heavy draft and it's all in the eye of the beholder.  It just takes 1 team.  He is a guy that teams will have to be very patient with and have a vision for, because he's going to make a lot of dumb mistakes and turn the ball over a lot until he develops.  He has never had to share the ball with another good player.   He is not a good outside shooter and he's not an elite athlete to blow by people off the dribble, so he's going to have to develop one of those.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Mike Schmitz not liking Hayes is a big red flag for me.  He's my favorite draft guy.

[KillerLeft]

Mike Schmitz not liking Hayes is a big red flag for me.  He's my favorite draft guy.

Yeah, and to be fair to @"Kammrath", his opinion IS worth a lot, at least to me. I've just never understood this one. I think Hayes is a nice prospect and would love for him to be a Mav, but I've never understood why he's so sure that his future is so bright that they should do anything it takes to draft him.

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I'll say this: 

@"DanSchwartzman" and @"Kammrath", the way teams are once again throwing picks around like candy at Halloween, combined with the wild range of DFS valuations coming at me in this thread by people whose opinions I respect has me at least believing that DFS+18 for #10 is POSSIBLE. 

I was certainly not buying that before this morning.

[fifteenth]

This is interesting. The takes on DFS's value are so far apart, and with smart people on both sides, that I feel like I'm getting farther away from understanding what's real on the topic.

I think takes probably seem high just because folks try to bolster their side of the argument. 

I think everyone would most likely agree that DFS is a huge success story just because of where he came from (undrafted), has developed a nice catch and shoot 3 pt shot, is great at put backs, is a good defender, a great teammate, has some value because of his chemistry with Luka, and is a 4th or 5th starter level player. None of that is contreversial, is it?

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Yeah, the degree of variance in the competition level in the overseas leagues adds a huge degree of difficulty in evaluating overseas players. You would see Giannis playing against what looked like High School caliber competition, but at least he looked like a man among boys. It's worrying Hayes couldn't look like that against some pretty pedestrian athletes in the German League. That's combined with not having a very good outside shot. He could develop one of those traits (or both) over time ... but it's like ... at least flash one or the other.