NEWS: Donnie Nelson sues Dallas Mavericks

[Jommybone]

Yeah I just read the headline initially and those were my initial thoughts. 

I then went through the court document after I made my post after seeing CJeter posted it. The timeline is important. I don't consider the timing of the lawsuit in any way suspect, but I do find the contents of the filing to be a little erratic and lacking for the accusations they've made. 

I'm no lawyer and have no idea how it'll play out, just seems like Donnie is trying to drag Cubes through the mud.

I’m a lawyer. Maybe I can help a little. But I haven’t read anything but the comments here. So take this with a grain of salt. (Not to mention the fact that I’m just some dude on the internet whose credentials you can’t check.)

1. It’s unfair to fault Donnie’s lack of evidence at this stage of the case. A lawsuit starts with the plaintiff’s allegations. There’s no requirement to put actual evidence into it, and doing so would be a waste of effort. Might also be a bad strategy. 

2. Also a little unfair to blame him for the petty or irrelevant stuff. There’s no harm in including too many accusations, and there is some potential harm in leaving out something that might matter. Plus, strategically, sometimes a plaintiff feels the need to drop a PR bomb. 

3. But Donnie’s retaliation claim seems really, really weird. At least as I understand it from the posts here. He didn’t know about his nephew getting harassed until after it was settled? And then he claims to have reported the harassment to Cuban, who obviously already knew about it? How is that reporting harassment? Or is he claiming that someone else was harassed too? If he’s just reporting his prediction that Lutin (is that the right name?) is likely to do it again, I don’t think that counts as reporting harassment. Without doing the legal research, I can’t be sure. But I sure wouldn’t think so. (For anyone truly motivated, the legal jargon is “protected activity.” You can’t retaliate against someone for engaging in protected activity.) Perhaps there’s a way to state it that doesn’t sound so weird. Is Donnie claiming he was retaliated against for raising concerns that others might be sexually harassed? I could get on board with that. But I can’t convince myself that anyone would ever offer to pay $52 million to cover up such a claim. 

4. Wow, that response from Cuban was strong! Last accusee I remember talking back like that was Bill O’Reilly. So . . . maybe not an indicator of innocence?

[Jommybone]

Leaking The Athletic story might be one of those fireable offenses. Do newspapers have to give up their source infront of cival court?


Day 14 on court: Mr Cato, who gave you the information about the Mavs work place?

True journalists refuse to give up their sources. But there is no privilege that protects them. Some courts will send them to jail for refusing to answer. Others let them off the hook. It’s an interesting legal issue. (Not sure ESPN’s guys are principled enough to go to jail over this.)

Edit: More accurately, there is no privilege that fully protects journalists. The courts call it a limited privilege, which basically boils down to how bad does the other side need the information. The law in Texas is explained here: https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/texas-p...e-material.

[cow]

as far as being complicit in this instance? We do know. The team and NBA is saying it was investigated. Thats what is supposed to happen.

And yet the cut Donnie's nephew a check and had him sign an NDA.

[Jommybone]

And yet the cut Donnie's nephew a check and had him sign an NDA.

The NDA is typical and not particularly telling. The check? Depends on the size. 30 grand wouldn’t convince me of anything. 300 grand would.

[Tyler]

I believe the inappropriate Donnie actions referenced are that he leaked the front office stuff about Bob as a power play to get him out of the way and it blew up in his face and he was fired for leaking it.

The public statement implies it was much more than that.

"Separately, Mr. Nelson refused to cooperate with the investigators that were looking into his behavior." Note that this detail was presented in the context of discussing the independent investigators who found the accusations to be fabricated.

One interpretation is that Donnie knew the allegations were false all along and refused to cooperate when the investigators started probing his involvement. With things going scorched earth now, I have a feeling the truth will come out soon enough.

[cjeter24]

And yet the cut Donnie's nephew a check and had him sign an NDA.

Thats not complicit tho... he didn't cover up and wasn't a part of it. A settlement doesn't make you complicit.

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The public statement implies it was much more than that.

"Separately, Mr. Nelson refused to cooperate with the investigators that were looking into his behavior." Note that this detail was presented in the context of discussing the independent investigators who found the accusations to be fabricated.

One interpretation is that Donnie knew the allegations were false all along and refused to cooperate when the investigators started probing his involvement. With things going scorched earth now, I have a feeling the truth will come out soon enough.

Yeah good points. 

Do you think Donnie was fired for all this at all? He seems to think thats why and defends his performance and trashes Cuban on that. 
At the very least that seems like they told him that his performance was part of the reason he was let go right? That or Donnie was incredibly insecure lol.

[Tyler]

Btw: what happened with Ronzone? The scandal with him was also way after the initial SI report and already during the „great“ Cynt‘s reign.

Interestingly, the complaint name drops both Ussery and Hyde as examples of a culture of sexual harassment within the organization. But it makes no mention of Ronzone. I can only surmise that it's an intentional omission, as I believe Ronzone reported to Donnie on the basketball side. Beyond just being "his guy", it undercuts Donnie's position that he wasn't also part of the problems he claims to have witnessed.

[cjeter24]

True journalists refuse to give up their sources. But there is no privilege that protects them. Some courts will send them to jail for refusing to answer. Others let them off the hook. It’s an interesting legal issue. (Not sure ESPN’s guys are principled enough to go to jail over this.)

Edit: More accurately, there is no privilege that fully protects journalists. The courts call it a limited privilege, which basically boils down to how bad does the other side need the information. The law in Texas is explained here: https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/texas-p...e-material.

Thanks... I work in a legal system but am not a lawyer. If we have specific questions I can ask a Judge, prosecutor, or just regular attorney. In short, I get free legal advice by being friends with people haha.

[Jommybone]

The public statement implies it was much more than that.

"Separately, Mr. Nelson refused to cooperate with the investigators that were looking into his behavior." Note that this detail was presented in the context of discussing the independent investigators who found the accusations to be fabricated.

One interpretation is that Donnie knew the allegations were false all along and refused to cooperate when the investigators started probing his involvement. With things going scorched earth now, I have a feeling the truth will come out soon enough.

When a company launches an investigation using outside lawyers, some view it as a move to cover their asses and to try to hide the real dirt behind a veil of attorney-client privilege. (I can’t say I disagree with that view, though certainly there are exceptions. Even a well-intentioned company is likely to follow counsel’s advice, conduct an “outside” investigation, and claim privilege to the extent they can.)

All this to say, I wouldn’t blame Donnie one bit for declining to cooperate. If you were in a legal dispute, would you volunteer to sit down with the other side’s lawyers and answer all their questions, without them agreeing to do the same for your lawyers? 

That said, I’m not trying to defend Donnie here. His retaliation claim sounds really weird as noted above. So weird that I’m tempted to call it bogus. (But I’m not calling it bogus, in part cause I haven’t even read it. Too much like real work.)

[cow]

Thats not complicit tho... he didn't cover up and wasn't a part of it. A settlement doesn't make you complicit.

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If there is nothing to the accusation then why is there a payout and NDA?  It's not a great look and is compounded by the recent accusations against Cuban and one of his businesses.

[cjeter24]

If there is nothing to the accusation then why is there a payout and NDA?  It's not a great look and is compounded by the recent accusations against Cuban and one of his businesses.

read Jommy's post who is a lawyer on that. 
But even if something did take place, it was handled appropriately. Nobody is complicit in this case IMO other than the harasser if they were guilty of something.

My initial reaction was that at the very least there was an inappropriate situation. Going alone back to a hotel room in this day and age while on official company business? that's very poor judgement at the very least and I'd argue could be a fireable offense alone because of the situation you put them in.

[Tyler]

I appreciate your insights, Jommybone. It's definitely helpful to have a legal perspective to sort what's normal from what's not.

[cow]

The NDA is typical and not particularly telling. The check? Depends on the size. 30 grand wouldn’t convince me of anything. 300 grand would.

The two are NDA and payment are married to one another though.  One wouldn't exist without the other in a situation like this.

[Jommybone]

The two are NDA and payment are married to one another though.  One wouldn't exist without the other in a situation like this.

Right. I assume (again, I haven’t read it) that it’s a settlement agreement that contains a confidentiality/non-disclosure clause rather than a stand alone NDA. At least that’s what would be typical. Also typical that the company wouldn’t pay a dime without the confidentiality provision. Guilty or innocent, that’s been my experience, although the bigger the payout, the more likely the insistence on confidentiality. 

So my point was that the confidentiality part of the deal doesn’t make me think anything inappropriate happened. Neither would the payout if it’s small. But if it’s big? Who would agree to pay big bucks to settle a claim they believe is a big fat lie? I suppose it’s theoretically possible. But I’d be super dubious. A big check is an admission. A little check, not really.

[cow]

Who would agree to pay big bucks to settle a claim they believe is a big fat lie? I suppose it’s theoretically possible. But I’d be super dubious. A big check is an admission. A little check, not really.

Big and small  is all relative.  

I went through a bankruptcy at a smallish company a decade or so ago and a lot of the dirty laundry got aired out.  Million dollar payouts for situations similar to the allegations here towards members of the executive team.  That number seemed so astronomical.  But for the NBA, that would be the tiniest of tiny drops in a bucket.  I'm so happy that the only NDA stuff I have to deal with these days is pre-release information on hardware.  lol

[SleepingHero]

I’m a lawyer. Maybe I can help a little. But I haven’t read anything but the comments here. So take this with a grain of salt. (Not to mention the fact that I’m just some dude on the internet whose credentials you can’t check.)

Thanks for the insight. Given your context I figure we're going to see some more evidence (if there even is) from Donnie's team proving his claims as the case progresses.

I will say given the NBA has corroborated at least some of Cubes very strong response it does make it at least seem like Donnie's case is weak. 

I was just commenting to my dad how strong Cuban's retort was. Going so far as to issue a public statement on the Mavs twitter as well. Is that a normal thing? Is calling a lawsuit "baseless" and "full of lies" a strategy often seen? Or is it often done from innocent people? Again I got no clue. Unfortunate Cuban and his drama can never seem to get out of the way of the team.

[cow]

Thanks for the insight. Given your context I figure we're going to see some more evidence (if there even is) from Donnie's team proving his claims as the case progresses.

I will say given the NBA has corroborated at least some of Cubes very strong response it does make it at least seem like Donnie's case is weak. 

I was just commenting to my dad how strong Cuban's retort was. Going so far as to issue a public statement on the Mavs twitter as well. Is that a normal thing? Is calling a lawsuit "baseless" and "full of lies" a strategy often seen? Or is it often done from innocent people? Again I got no clue. Unfortunate Cuban and his drama can never seem to get out of the way of the team.

That's just Cuban being Cuban who rarely knows when to shut the fuck up.

[michaeltex]

This feels like Donnie looking for one last Mav payday. He got fired from a senior executive job and has not been picked up by another team. So now he’s looking for a final installment for his retirement fund.

[Jommybone]

Thanks for the insight. Given your context I figure we're going to see some more evidence (if there even is) from Donnie's team proving his claims as the case progresses.

I will say given the NBA has corroborated at least some of Cubes very strong response it does make it at least seem like Donnie's case is weak. 

I was just commenting to my dad how strong Cuban's retort was. Going so far as to issue a public statement on the Mavs twitter as well. Is that a normal thing? Is calling a lawsuit "baseless" and "full of lies" a strategy often seen? Or is it often done from innocent people? Again I got no clue. Unfortunate Cuban and his drama can never seem to get out of the way of the team.

That’s unusually strong language. But this is not a typical squabble either so I’m not sure we should expect a typical response. “Baseless” is lawyer language. “Full of lies” is not. How unusual is it? I don’t know. Reminds me of Bill O’Reilly, like I said. I initially assumed his denials were truthful because it would be dumb to deny the truth so vehemently. Then the rest of the story came out. So I dunno.

[omahen]

I have read the court document now. A couple of comments. Things obviously went extremely wrong between Mavs and Nelson if he was fired after 24 years without any payment. This is certainly not a way you end such long term relationships unless there is more involved. Was just Nelson convinced he is doing a great job and would be doing a great job if Cuban let him or is it more to it. Was there no way to just offer Donnie a different position as it is often done in such cases?

Is it possible Cuban and Nelson didn't communicate through texts for a year and a half as it can be seen from exhibit 2? There is a text exchange between them on Sep 2020. Next thing on the screen is Cuban photo with Lukas dad from February this year when he was in Dallas for Luka birthday. Interesting enough they obviously had some rather private/friendly exchanges (Cuban sending him a photo) despite all this bad blood. The text itself is no proof, as "that other thing" could relate to just about anything.