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THE GREEN MACHINE: The Subtle Emergence of Josh Green
#41
(07-06-2022, 01:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: My thought is if he shows any improvement next season it will probably make sense to pull the trigger on the club option.


If he's IN THE ROTATION down the stretch, and not trying to prove he can be like he was this past season (leaving us all thinking they were a couple of players short in the playoffs), then I agree. Getting a rotation player for a year at the $4.7 million price point is the way they'll go. 

If he's not? I think the right thing might be to move on to another young guy who you can control longer for cheaper.
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#42
The decision window for the 4th yr option on Green is before this season starts.
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#43
(07-06-2022, 01:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: The decision window for the 4th yr option on Green is before this season starts.

Before this season starts? I was confused then, sorry.
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#44
(07-06-2022, 01:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: The decision window for the 4th yr option on Green is before this season starts.

Didn't realize it was this soon.  I guess we will get a good idea of what this FO thinks about him before the season starts.
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#45
(07-06-2022, 02:52 PM)mvossman Wrote: Didn't realize it was this soon.  I guess we will get a good idea of what this FO thinks about him before the season starts.


Maybe I'm missing something, as I haven't analyzed the situation thoroughly, but I think this info makes it less likely he's here this season, not more.
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#46
(07-06-2022, 06:15 AM)Winter Wrote: Actually, it didn't. DFS was in the regular rotation during the first year averaging 20 mpg. So was Kleber (16 mpg). Bullock took the longest to get started, but he kept getting traded and kept starting all over.  And Thybulle was getting 20 mpg during his first year and more since.

All of these players had one thing in common. Bullock, Thybulle, and DFS all played at a high level in college for 2-3 years before moving. Kleber had international experience for two years prior. Josh Green did not. One year really wasn't enough for him. He probably needed more. Maybe a lot more. I'm guessing he was a much bigger gamble.

There's two ways to look at this. 1. He needs more time. 2. The Mavs took a swing and missed.

I know where you stand. I think the Mavs have had enough to evaluate him now. We'll see.

DFS is now regarded as one of the best 3 and D players in the league. His first few years in the league that wasn't the case because he was shooting 29% from three. Both him and Kleber were getting 15-20 minutes as reserves in their first years similar to Green this past season as athletic/hustle/energy guys. But it was easier for them to get minutes on those bad teams of 2017-2018 compared to the playoff teams that Green has been a part of. If this was a lottery team then Green would have gotten plenty of chances

It's way too early to give up on him when he's always been low on the depth chart behind the key veterans at the position.
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#47
(07-06-2022, 02:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, as I haven't analyzed the situation thoroughly, but I think this info makes it less likely he's here this season, not more.

How you view Green determines what significance the timetable has. This is the routine for all 1st round free agents, and designed to force commitments well in advance . If you think he's progressing about as they expected, it's a nothing burger; if you think he sucks and won't become worth keeping, you see it as significant.

But for parallel decisions, a year ago they had to make the same decision on him - whether to pick up his option for year 3, having only seen him in year 1 - and they chose yes. In light of the positive developments since then, I'm guessing this is an even easier 'yes' for them this time.
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#48
(07-06-2022, 03:50 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: If this was a lottery team then Green would have gotten plenty of chances

This just makes his lake of summer league play confusing.  You'd think his exit interview would encourage him to play and summer league and average 20+ a game.
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#49
(07-06-2022, 04:04 PM)cow Wrote: This just makes his lake of summer league play confusing.  You'd think his exit interview would encourage him to play and summer league and average 20+ a game.

Players who have a contract and 2-or-more years of NBA experience don't do SL. It's a proving ground and a place for teams to get a live advance look at draftees (and UDFAs) vs competition, rather than a place to develop.

The Mavs undoubtedly have a summer program for JG.
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#50
(07-06-2022, 04:09 PM)F Gump Wrote: Players who have a contract and 2-or-more years of NBA experience don't do SL. It's a proving ground and a place for teams to get a live advance look at draftees (and UDFAs) vs competition, rather than a place to develop.

The Mavs undoubtedly have a summer program for JG.

Yeah, I don’t get the confusion by others on why he isn’t playing SL. Plus, it’s not like a few SL games will change anything for him. A good summer program and a lot of shooting is what he needs.

Edit: And today was the first time I realized Green (21) is only a year older than Hardy (20). Wild!
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#51
(07-06-2022, 04:09 PM)F Gump Wrote: Players who have a contract and 2-or-more years of NBA experience don't do SL. It's a proving ground and a place for teams to get a live advance look at draftees (and UDFAs) vs competition, rather than a place to develop.

The Mavs undoubtedly have a summer program for JG.

That sucks.  Dude needs more game experience.
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#52
(07-06-2022, 04:15 PM)cow Wrote: That sucks.  Dude needs more game experience.

I would add that he needs experience being aggressive.  I think that putting him in SL would have been good for him in terms of being an established dude that didn't look to defer to the vets.  I would have liked to have seen him in that mode and what he has in that regard.
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#53
I saw this and I was impressed and very hopeful. One quote stood out to me 

“If you talk to most NBA players, they’re all over the place. For them to put themselves in one place for two straight months and consistently follow the same schedule, that’s pretty rare,” Abunassar said. “But I will tell you this: I’ve done this for 25 years and every guy who does that has a good season — whether it’s with me or wherever.”

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/j...-nutrition
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#54
I would hate it if Green is a throw in on a trade and has a breakout year for someone else
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#55
(07-21-2022, 04:28 PM)MFFL Wrote: I would hate it if Green is a throw in on a trade and has a breakout year for someone else
I haven’t seen any trades that make him a throw in. I have seen him used in lieu of using the 25 first. If that is how he’s used, I would have no problem with his inclusion.
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#56
(07-21-2022, 04:28 PM)MFFL Wrote: I would hate it if Green is a throw in on a trade and has a breakout year for someone else

The good or bad news is that his resume isn't going to make or break any trades.
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#57
(07-21-2022, 04:19 PM)MFFL Wrote: I saw this and I was impressed and very hopeful. One quote stood out to me 

“If you talk to most NBA players, they’re all over the place. For them to put themselves in one place for two straight months and consistently follow the same schedule, that’s pretty rare,” Abunassar said. “But I will tell you this: I’ve done this for 25 years and every guy who does that has a good season — whether it’s with me or wherever.”

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/j...-nutrition

I became a Green believer halfway into the season. I want him so badly to succeed. Maybe Kidd also thinks next year he takes a leap. 

Sounds like Green is doing everything he can to make it happen. Lets hope it does.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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#58
Josh Green breakout year incomming!

His defense was never questionable, and it's going to improve with better conditioning and more reps.

But they are addressing the most important aspects of his game IMO. Shooting, ball handling and the angles were his main weaknesses, and if he improves just a bit, it's going to be huge for his game. It also unlocks other promising aspects of his game, such as passing.

But I have been telling you guys for some time now. It's his first full offseason since he's entered the league, and it think it's going to show up on his game next season. He'll be the 3rd wing that we so desperately need.
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#59
(07-22-2022, 10:04 AM)juanc Wrote: Josh Green breakout year incomming!

His defense was never questionable, and it's going to improve with better conditioning and more reps.

But they are addressing the most important aspects of his game IMO. Shooting, ball handling and the angles were his main weaknesses, and if he improves just a bit, it's going to be huge for his game. It also unlocks other promising aspects of his game, such as passing.

But I have been telling you guys for some time now. It's his first full offseason since he's entered the league, and it think it's going to show up on his game next season. He'll be the 3rd wing that we so desperately need.

To your point, he was top quartile as a PnR defender as a skinny kid.  With more muscle and experience that goes up.  We don’t need him to be starter level this season.  Just take a step up.  The real need comes the season after Bullock expires.
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#60
If JG can be the 3rd of the 2-way wings, another genuine 3-and-D guy to rotate with DFS and Bullock, that would be huge. The article was certainly offering reasons for optimism, and from someone who has skins on the wall and might know.

If so, then there's only that 1 gaping hole left to fill, the 3rd Offense Creator.

Maybe in time that's their aim for Hardy, but he's a long way away and they definitely need someone this season. You can't seriously start a season with no real backup at all for TWO starters (Luka and SD) -- they need rest, need a backup, need to be prepared in case of injury to one or both, etc. The declaration to Dragic that he would only play every 5th game or so makes no sense, unless ....

Unless they didn't see him as the 3rd guy. It fits if they wanted him in the Trey Burke role and already had a 3rd guy lined up. It kinda fits if they think Dragic just wouldn't be good enough to be that 3rd guy, but dang he'd be so far better than what they seem to have in view right now.

I have to think they have someone lined up who isn't available at the moment, but might become so in the weeks ahead. That would eliminate current free agents. Which brings me back to Rose, if the Knicks pursuit of Mitchell has temporarily gotten in the way, or it might be Kemba, whose reported buyout has been delayed for some unknown reason.
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