MAVS 103, NUGGETS 89

[Kammrath]

Dude, this is one of our best posters you're trying to run off here. Don't be so defensive.

I am not trying to run him off. He has literally been trolling me by turning everything I say into a false straw-man for literally months. I just want it to stop, its exhausting having everything you say purposely misinterpreted. I want him to stay and stop trolling me (and the occasional other person he will do it to).

[ItsGoTime]

I think you might be just a touch too hard on Porzingis, Bullock and Powell here.

You’re right, as long as those 3 are upgraded, DFS can be the only bench player to start on the team!

[dirkfansince1998]

I am not trying to run him off. He has literally been trolling me by turning everything I say into a false straw-man for literally months. I just want it to stop, its exhausting having everything you say purposely misinterpreted. I want him to stay and stop trolling me (and the occasional other person he will do to).

We had similar situations in the past with @"Mak" and @"jesusshuttlesworth82"  that escalated. Just a couple of posts ago @"TXBamanut" used the word stupid to describe posters that disagree with his take on KP and I know that I am included on that list. I am getting into it with him all the time. But for me that´s a part of the messenger board culture as long as it isn´t escalating even further.

Some of us have strong opinions. I would include both of us on that list. We make some statements that are not exactly mainstream opinions among Mavs fans. Other posters might find them provocative. Especially if we aren´t formulating them with "astonishing clarity and rare style". Resulting in a snarky response or some trolling.
I don´t want you to feel targeted but I really don´t think that´s @Mavsluvr intention.

[Kammrath]

We had similar situations in the past with @Mak and @jesusshuttlesworth82  that escalated. Just a couple of posts ago @TXBamanut used the word stupid to describe posters that disagree with his take on KP and I know that I am included on that list. I am getting into it with him all the time. But for me that´s a part of the messenger board culture as long as it isn´t escalating even further.

Some of us have strong opinions. I would include both of us on that list. We make some statements that are not exactly mainstream opinions among Mavs fans. Other posters might find them provocative. Especially if we aren´t formulating them with "astonishing clarity and rare style". Resulting in a snarky response or some trolling.
I don´t want you to feel targeted but I really don´t think this is the case.

I really appreciate the thoughtful post. 

I agree with everything you say here except the "targeting" piece. In this particular instance I believe it is the case. He is annoyed with me for whatever reason. I am just asking to be left alone if engaging with me cannot be done with an overtone of genuine respect. I am fine with good natured ribbing if I know someone is engaging with my actual opinions (even if my opinions are stupid), but if my actual opinions aren't being engaged with I am not interested.

[mvossman]

I really appreciate the thoughtful post. 

I agree with everything you say here except the "targeting" piece. In this particular instance I believe it is the case. He is annoyed with me for whatever reason. I am just asking to be left alone if engaging with me cannot be done with an overtone of genuine respect. I am fine with good natured ribbing if I know someone is engaging with my actual opinions (even if my opinions are stupid), but if my actual opinions aren't being engaged with I am not interested.

Other than the one post that triggered you, it seems like he has mostly just disagreed with a point or two of yours.  Does not seem like there has been a history of targeting or purposely misinterpreting your posts.  We have all had an occasional post where we got a little too snarky (in my case after a couple of drinks).  Probably best just to leave it alone.

Also, when one of the moderators of a board who has ban power suggests another poster should leave the board, that is a little more than simply asking to be left alone.

[BackToSquareOne]

it's back to start.

Errrh mai gherd. Blush.

[BackToSquareOne]

he plays at top 5 player in the world level.

Delusional

There are handfuls of players playing better this year than Luka ... so far.

[Kammrath]

ther than the one post that triggered you, it seems like he has mostly just disagreed with a point or two of yours.  Does not seem like there has been a history of targeting or purposely misinterpreting your posts.  We have all had an occasional post where we got a little too snarky (in my case after a couple of drinks).  Probably best just to leave it alone.

Also, when one of the moderators of a board who has ban power suggests another poster should leave the board, that is a little more than simply asking to be left alone.

It is a repeated pattern of creating straw-men of my arguments. 

I do not have the power to ban or rather I would never USE the power to ban. That is 100% a collective decision of the moderators and if it personally involves me I wouldn't even vote. I would more quickly leave than ban someone honestly.

[Kammrath]

Delusional

There are handfuls of players playing better this year than Luka ... so far.

I think one could make the very convincing case that Luka isn't even playing as a top 50 player in the NBA this season.

[KillerLeft]

You got "Luka needs to change his style" from what I said? That's not at all what I was talking about.

Not at all, sorry if that was unclear.

It was simply my way of supporting the take I have been spewing four days, weeks and months while also agreeing with and supporting your point. 

I agree with you and Kamm about some of Luka’s deficiencies, but I don’t think they are the main cause of the team’s troubles.

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But Luka is shooting less layups, less free throws,

…and THIS I believe is due to poor offensive design (though I still agree with a lot of what is being said about Luka needing to grow).

[KillerLeft]

You’re right, as long as those 3 are upgraded, DFS can be the only bench player to start on the team!

SEE I KNEW YOU UNDERRATED DFS!!!!!

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Especially if we aren´t formulating them with "astonishing clarity and rare style". Resulting in a snarky response or some trolling.

[KillerLeft]

I think one could make the very convincing case that Luka isn't even playing as a top 50 player in the NBA this season.

I think you could make a great case, and I don’t know that it should be very controversial. To me, the argument should be 100% about why this is happening. I do not at all agree that even the majority of it is due to slippage in his play.

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That is 100% a collective decision of the moderators and if it personally involves me I wouldn't even vote.

This is true, for those interested. No BS.

[Hypermav]

SEE I KNEW YOU UNDERRATED DFS!!!!!

---

[KillerLeft]

I don’t understand your gifs, but I’m often left with a vague impression that you hate me. Weird.

[mvossman]

I think you could make a great case, and I don’t know that it should be very controversial. To me, the argument should be 100% about why this is happening. I do not at all agree that even the majority of it is due to slippage in his play.

It will be real interesting to see how he plays the next couple of weeks.  You can make the argument that he started the season out of shape and struggling with the new offensive system (which included a lot of guys clogging up the paint).  Then I think he was really struggling with the ankle.  Last night was by far the closest he has looked to the old Luka.  Very curious to see if he plays like the old Luka for the next few games, and then how he plays when KP gets back.  It almost feels like an experiment.  We get 10 games with KP and no Luka, and now we are going to get several games with Luka and no KP, and then hopefully we will get both together.

[Kammrath]

I think you could make a great case, and I don’t know that it should be very controversial. To me, the argument should be 100% about why this is happening. I do not at all agree that even the majority of it is due to slippage in his play.

Do you believe there has been slippage in Luka's play? 

If so, in what areas?

[Hypermav]

I don’t understand your gifs, but I’m often left with a vague impression that you hate me. Weird.

except for Rubio...

[KillerLeft]

Very curious to see if he plays like the old Luka for the next few games, and then how he plays when KP gets back.  It almost feels like an experiment.  We get 10 games with KP and no Luka, and now we are going to get several games with Luka and no KP, and then hopefully we will get both together.

 

100% on board with this thinking. 

If Luka looks like he did last night for the next few games, and then if that CONTINUES after Porzingis comes back, I’ll feel significantly better about the state of this team. 

If the above scenario plays out positively because KP is used differently, I will feel much better about Jason Kidd.

If the above scenario plays out positively with Porzingis being used the same way he has been all season, I might start to buy into the idea that Luka was just bad for the first 30 games. But honestly, I think that is the least likely of the many possible outcomes.

[KillerLeft]

Do you believe there has been slippage in Luka's play? 

If so, in what areas?

I do believe that he was out of shape to start the season and probably still is, a little. That is on him, but I’m not as concerned about it as you are because I think it’s probably pretty common for kids his age, and the only reason we notice is that he has already positioned to himself as the face of a franchise. I strongly believe that he will grow to be a pro’s pro.

I do not attribute his poor shooting and inability to penetrate solely to this observation as you do, however. I think the best case scenario is that he is being asked to play in a system that he and some of his teammates were struggling to understand early on. The worst case scenario is that the design of the Mavericks offense this year is simply not up to par with the best teams in the NBA. It is no longer state of the art, and pretty damn outmoded.

I see him come back from Covid, have one very rusty game and then look very much like his old self in the second game. I see that this happens during a game Porzingis misses in which they aren’t warring over how to attack the defense. To my eye, there was much more space out there for him to create off of screens. I do not think this is coincidence.

I am not 100% decided as to whether I just hate Jason Kidd’s offense (so far) or think that KP and Luka don’t see eye to eye on how to run it. But I do not agree with the idea that the Luka we saw in the olympics one month before the season forgot how to play his style of basketball. There are things he needs to continue to work on diligently, of course! But he has looked bad at times this year, and I do not think the team is playing to his strengths anymore.

[Kammrath]

I see him come back from Covid, have one very rusty game and then look very much like his old self in the second game.

Thanks for the thorough response. 

I thought he looked REALLY good last game except in the two glaring areas that concern me the most:

1) Shooting continues to suck. Career low 53% TS%, is really concerning. 

2) He continues to not be able to get to the rim like in year's past and looks a step or two slower. 

Yes it is only one game, but no KP and better spacing didn't help those two concerning areas. You could be right about their cause, but I feel quite strongly those two areas of concern are largely on Luka's own shoulders and he needs to address them himself.