Mavs have a leadership problem | Cuban and Harlabob argue on Twitter

[cow]

What makes you think Luka is not doing that? First year his left hand was a problem and he worked on that. It is not a problem anymore. Than he added mid range shooting. I don't agree he is not improving all the time. I also don't think he is out of shape, at least in the context of not doing anything during summer. Luka had just two weaks off, otherwise it was competitive basketball and preparing for the new season. I think 2 months of international activities took its toll. I think he is still in a process of recharging the batteries to be his best self.

I didn't say he hasn't improved in areas or that he's being lazy in the offseason.  There are different levels of being in shape and Luka skews far closer to Shaq's mindset of playing himself into shape rather than the year round commitment seen from Kobe.  We've seen concerns about his fitness every year so this isn't a one-off occurrence.  And yes, he's shown improvement in areas like defense...when he tries.  So how about he stops chewing the refs ears off and stops leaving his teammates out to dry by having them play 4v5 when he doesn't get a call he thinks he deserves.   And if you are going to beg for calls, how about becoming a decent free throw shooter?  

There are shortcomings I'm more willing to overlook, like his 3PT percentage or turnovers.  There are things I think he needs to be better at are easily achievable for him.  Change your diet (hire a chef), change your offseason regimen, hit your free throws, stop bitching to refs, stop getting technical fouls, put effort into getting back on defense.

[KillerLeft]

Best thread/discussion we've had in quite some time, btw. Nice work @"vfromlmf"!

[Kammrath]

I'm just saying that him having these problems now, frustrated as we might be with them, is not a thing that should motivate us in a "he'll never be able to do it" direction.

100%.

I am betting on Luka to grow and mature. 



My biggest reason for banging the "Luka issues" drum is simply this:

If we do not honestly assess and see how much Luka's play, immaturity, and conditioning is hurting the ceiling and performance of this team, then we will be inclined to look for answers and solutions in the wrong place. That is, other players, coaches, and managers will be blamed and/or scapegoated unfairly (or disproportionately). We need to correctly assess how much of this is on Luka so that we do not wrongfully blame Kidd, Nico, Cuban, KP, DFS, DP, etc. 

Now don't get me wrong: ALL those other parties bear responsibility as well. Some in very significant ways. But I think it is a fundamentally wrong assessment to say something like "Luka is the least of the Mavs problems." The Mavs have a lot going wrong right now and Luka is a major part of that, if for no other reason than he is the largest and most important part of what the Mavs do.

[cow]

I believe it was the same pod that said there are really only three Mavs who keep themselves in tiptop shape as a matter of course -- Dorian, Hardaway, and Powell. The others, including Luka, stay in excellent shape compared to the average person, and then work themselves into game shape as needed. I don't think this is unique to the Mavs. 

Not to disregard your overall point, but being in shape compares to the average person means very, very little.  I also pointed out Dirk's conditioning recently (might or might not have been this thread).  I'm also not keen on a podcast citing an unnamed Mavs source nor am I going to be confident in anyone in the organization giving a fair assessment of Luka especially if it sounds negative.  And as I said in another thread, early this season I'm concerned about Luka's wheels and the probability of injury.

[KillerLeft]

I'd also like to point out that these problems with Luka and with the team seemed to intensify as soon as Barea was forced into retirement. 

Now, I NEVER would've guessed that such a move would've had this effect, but looking back it does make sense. A guy who was a champion on this team, so ensconced here that he didn't have to worry about what anyone thought about him, understood how to win and where the coaches were coming from AND who spoke a language that Luka has mastered much more than English??

This team has not been able to replace all of that yet, and they might never be able to. Since they couldn't interest a Chris Paul or a Kyle Lowry, we might just be stuck waiting for this team to learn all of these things the hard way. If so, I think it's going to take a while.

[Kammrath]

If we do not honestly assess and see how much Luka's play, immaturity, and conditioning is hurting the ceiling and performance of this team, then we will be inclined to look for answers and solutions in the wrong place. That is, other players, coaches, and managers will be blamed and/or scapegoated unfairly (or disproportionately). We need to correctly assess how much of this is on Luka so that we do not wrongfully blame Kidd, Nico, Cuban, KP, DFS, DP, etc. 

A quick example of this:

I think I wrongly placed some of what I now see as "Luka issues" at the feet of RC the last couple years. But now with RC gone and things not any better I am realizing I misplaced some of that blame and responsibility (sorry RC!). I think it would be easy to continue to give Luka a free pass and now blame Kidd or Cuban for stuff, but I am personally seeing that maybe a lot more of the issues are on Luka than I realized over the last 3 years.

Again, that does not excuse the organization, which OBVIOUSLY has its fair share of dysfunction and issues. But I think I would be much more confident in saying...

"Luka is in danger of ruining Luka" than I would in saying "the Mavs are in danger of ruining Luka."

[Kammrath]

I'd also like to point out that these problems with Luka and with the team seemed to have intensified as soon as Barea was forced into retirement. 

Yep, I was all for JJB losing his roster spot and moving on....

....BOY WAS I EVER WRONG.

[omahen]

Change your diet (hire a chef)

What Luka Doncic eats in OFF SEASON ? He has a Personal Chef! ENG SUB Credits to SVET Kanal A - YouTube

change your offseason regimen

New offseason coach this season

Meet Anze Macek, Luka Doncic's Slovenian Trainer - D Magazine

[KillerLeft]

Yep, I was all for JJB losing his roster spot and moving on....

....BOY WAS I EVER WRONG.

I think most people were in favor of it (demanding it, actually). I was mildly opposed, but not passionate, and my view was 100% about losing the last link to a time when the team was better. I had no clue how important he actually was.

[Mavs2021]

Great post, and I mostly agree. And, I feel that I, as president of the Carlisle fan club, have bent over backwards to make it clear that I'm giving Kidd and his ideas a chance. At least, that's how I'm trying to approach things. I've written many times giving him credit for some specific things. 

Ultimately, I agree with your assessment that he hasn't really earned this opportunity, at least as a coach, but that doesn't mean he won't rise to it, I suppose. 

As to the portion I quoted, I don't think "PG with a ring" was the motivation. Sadly, I think it was more like "that's my buddy J-Kidd who I know pretends to enjoy me being around the team so much. He gets what makes my team so amazing."

Carlisle´s Pacers are currently 9-16 and he hasn´t figured out how to utilize Sabonis/Turner together either. Not like he´s setting the world on fire.

That being said, you are correct. Jason Kidd is exactly the kind of unimaginative head coaching appointment you expect a mediocre franchise to make. The Mavs should have looked at the next wiz kid like a Taylor Jenkins or Mark Daigneault. Smart people that have been coaching/teaching basketball for over a decade and with two decades ahead of them. They should have done the same in the GM position. Maybe/hopefully Nico will turn out to be such an appointment. That is basically our only hope.

[fifteenth]

But this is who he is. With his greats and his faults. I think you have to accept who he is and build around that. So if it is a fact that he is immature, you (as an organization) have to help him. Expecting him to change who he is as a person might be frustrating.

Everyone has to change. We all do. It's called growing up. I think a balanced view of this whole thing admits that Luka has some growing up to do in order to reach his potential AND that it's understandable that a 22 year old is going through that.

The difficult fact about the situation is that Luka is a leader whether he is ready to be or not. A team will follow a player of his skill level,  role and stature.

Interestingly, Dragic could be the missing link I'm this very discussion. Hopefully Luka can grow before our eyes by listening to Kidd. But having Dragic as a teammate could really help that process.

[cow]

This team has not been able to replace all of that yet, and they might never be able to. Since they couldn't interest a Chris Paul or a Kyle Lowry, we might just be stuck waiting for this team to learn all of these things the hard way. If so, I think it's going to take a while.

I think we've discussed most of the culture changing players in this thread besides Butler, so they aren't easy to come by.  You are probably right about our group needing to find their own way.

[KillerLeft]

Carlisle´s Pacers are currently 9-16 and he hasn´t figured out how to utilize Sabonis/Turner together either. Not like he´s setting the world on fire.

Oh, I agree - it's not going well in Indiana, so far. 

I just brought it up because I spent so much time trying to convince people that Carlisle wasn't the problem here. I have tried to be sensitive about that so that my Kidd opinions are taken for the carefully measured observations I hope they are and not interpreted as "Kidd vs. Carlisle" sour milk. 

Overall, I think he's doing ok. I'm enjoying some things, shaking my head at others. I agree with you in an important way, however. I believe in surrounding yourself with the best people you can find and then letting them do their thing. I have a hard time, from that angle, figuring out how Kidd got the chance to be the coach of a Luka Doncic led franchise just as he's entering his second contract. Honestly, going by his coaching track record, he should be slaving away in Houston or Orlando, trying to prove himself. 

But, he's JKidd, and privilege exists. The good news is that there's still a chance he'll be great, even if there were others more deserving of the opportunity.

---

Interestingly, Dragic could be the missing link I'm this very discussion. Hopefully Luka can grow before our eyes by listening to Kidd. But having Dragic as a teammate could really help that process.

Dragic could ABSOLUTELY help, especially if he's able to contribute enough on the floor for everyone else besides Luka to take him seriously in the locker room.

[omahen]

The difficult fact about the situation is that Luka is a leader whether he is ready to be or not. A team will follow a player of his skill level,  role and stature.

Here we don't agree. Not everyone is a leader. Some need more time to grow up. I don't see that as a problem. But you need to assess what it is and act accordingly. If Luka is not ready to be a leader, you have to help him, not throwing him under the bus forcing him to become something he is not ready to be. If this is how we are, so why don't we expect Dorian/Maxi/Bullock to become good creators, KP to be great post up player and so on? We don't. We accept them for who they are and utilize their strengths. At least I do. 

 Look what Phoenix did when they gave their team and their star player a leader.

[KillerLeft]

Look what Phoenix did when they gave their team and their star player a leader.

I so, so, so agree with this.

[Kammrath]

Not everyone is a leader

Agreed....but then they HAVE to be a follower. 

I feel like Luka has struggled with both leading and following.

[dirkfansince1998]

Carlisle´s Pacers are currently 9-16 and he hasn´t figured out how to utilize Sabonis/Turner together either. Not like he´s setting the world on fire.

That´s the crazy part. Looking at team metics the Mavs are worse in every single category. Except for the most important one. Wins. Based on O, D or net rating the Mavs are a bottom ten team. Same for SRS.
We can give them some credit for winning a lot of close games but also have to acknowledge that those games shouldn´t be close. Relatively easy schedule and probably playing in the easiest conference (can´t believe that it finally happened...imagine the 00s Mavs in this crappy SW division).

Pacers are the direct opposite. They are underperforming badly in the W-L column. Better O, D and net rating. Better SRS. Compared to the Mavs. I guess they could blame the clutch Ls on RC because the Mavs had similar problems in the last two seasons.

[Bayliss]

Luka needs to step out of the spotlight sometimes and allow others to have their moment.

But I don't think he will ever do that.  He is so ball dominant that I don't think he will ever be able to not have the ball in his hands.  

Personally I think the Mavs should use KP like the way Avery used Howard in the mid 2000s.  Howard would be a first half scorer and then Dirk and Terry would be the finishers in the second half.  

KP should get plenty of opportunities to score in the first half and Luka be the closer.  There are way too many games where Luka comes out with like 10-15 points in the first quarter and no one else is involved.  But I don't believe for a second that anyone could tell Luka what to do.  Dirk would take advice from nearly anyone.  Luka (IMO) doesn't seem like he is willing to listen.

[omahen]

I have been through these so many times before. In Real Luka was best player in his last season there, but he wasn't a leader. Spanish national teams vets like Llull, Reyes, Fernandez were. Real won everything. When Slovenia won gold at EU, Dragic was a leader and best player.

If one seriously thinks DAJ and WES are leaders, than I can't really help. They both have low BB IQ and such guys can never be accepted as leaders. 

As for RC, there is just a bunch of guessing about Luka role in the whole thing. I would say some other players had way more problems with him than Luka did.

[fifteenth]

 Look what Phoenix did when they gave their team and their star player a leader.

This is a great point. Would love for this team to have a vet like that. Would love for Luka to have a mentor.

It's also true that Booker doesn't have Luka's stature. I think people will follow Luka whether he's ready or not. 

But obviously agree with what you say about Phx. I mentioned that Dragic would really help.