Mavs have a leadership problem | Cuban and Harlabob argue on Twitter

[Moviemavguy]

Mavs need veteran leadership, but it's not like we're a Dragic away from contending.  Lack of talent is still the main issue.

[omahen]

If you are expecting a 22 year old to be a leader and the most mature person, you have a problem. It is not Luka fault, he is 22. It is the organization fault. Blaiming Luka for the situation Mavs are in is a very sure thing to make Luka demand a trade in a couple of seasons. As a Luka fan I have to say I am pretty much fed up with Mavs.

[Mavs2021]

TALENT, TALENT, TALENT. That is the Mavs problem. They have none in the front office or on the bench.

All the veterans are crap.

Powell/Boban/WCS make a combined $18M to average 13.3 PPG/8.2 RPG/1.0 BPG in 36 MPG.

Valancinuas averages 19/12 for 14M
Holmes averages 15/10 for 10.5M
Allen averages 17/12 for 20M
Harrell averages 16/8 for 10M
Gafford averages 9/6 for 2M
Markkanen averages 15/6 for 15.6M

All these were very available in free agency or multiple trades over the last 18 months, but the Mavs figured their trifecta is a better combination of talent.

So keep talking about Luka being fat all you want. You know when Mavs fans make excuses for players underperforming, because they are stuck on shitty franchises that make them lose motivation.  We are the #1 shitty franchise with THE top captive the league is looking to set free. Welcome to our reality.

[cow]

If you are expecting a 22 year old to be a leader and the most mature person, you have a problem. It is not Luka fault, he is 22. It is the organization fault. Blaiming Luka for the situation Mavs are in is a very sure thing to make Luka demand a trade in a couple of seasons. As a Luka fan I have to say I am pretty much fed up with Mavs.

Two sides to every coin.  Look at KP, I'd say he's always been ahead of the curve from a maturity standpoint and it is equally fair to say that Luka is behind that curve.  If you want to be one of the best players in the world and the focal point of a franchise, I don't see why it is so hard to show up for a season in shape.

That's not excusing the Mavs.  I think they've entrenched themselves as one of the worst franchises in the league.

[KillerLeft]

We are the #1 shitty franchise with THE top captive the league is looking to set free. Welcome to our reality.

I don't know if they're the #1 example because there are older, more deserving examples of people needing to be "set free" but I do think your point is cutting and has an air of truth.

[cow]

So keep talking about Luka being fat all you want. You know when Mavs fans make excuses for players underperforming, because they are stuck on shitty franchises that make them lose motivation.  We are the #1 shitty franchise with THE top captive the league is looking to set free. Welcome to our reality.

I don't think anyone is really excusing or breezing past the Mavs woes as an organization but that doesn't excuse Luka's easily correctable shortcomings.  If you sign a supermax I'm going to expect you to come into the season in shape.

[hakeemfaan]

I don't disagree, but this offense can't function in a regular season game against New Orleans. So, to me, that's worse, not better. Still time for it to improve, of course - no panicking here. 

I don't mind some of what's being attempted, philosophically, but I do think they've moved a little too far away from the state of the art spacing that made Luka so successful so quickly, and I do think there's a bit too much of a green light from the midrange. Brunson and Luka are both GREAT in the midrange, imo. Burke has his moments. Hardaway, KP, Bullock? Nah, those are wasted possessions.

I am ok with taking a few steps back given that the offense we had the last few years had a limited ceiling IMO. The question is whether it will lead to more forward steps and a higher ceiling than our previous offense. 

The starting lineup yesterday was horrible. Bad decision by Kidd. I am a defense first guy but have two legit offense guys in at all times. 

Look I was not in favor of the Kidd or Nico hires. I think Kidd is a high BB IQ guy but all his coaching jobs seemed handed to him without much dues and he has not exactly been successful either.  If Mark wanted a PG with a ring, I would have preferred Cassell. He has at least more than paid his dues. 

However now that Kidd is here, I want to at least give some time to him before saying his plans won’t work.

[omahen]

I'm going to expect you to come into the season in shape

How do you know he is not in shape?

[Kammrath]

As a Luka fan I have to say I am pretty much fed up with Mavs.

As a Mavs fan I have to say I am pretty much fed up with Luka.


Point being: It goes both ways. 

Luka is an adult and has been for 4 years. Luka has been a leader on his international teams. He has clashed on his NBA teams with players who seemed to be trying to lead (the rookie year situation with DAJ/Wes is the most obvious). He has clashed with RC. 

It is not crazy of the Mavs to expect him to be the leader. It happens all the time on college teams that 22 year olds or younger are leaders and mature (to the extent they need to be). Sure, there are parts of Luka that will still be a "kid" for the next 5+ years and that's fine, but there are certain areas he HAS to mature in and he is being given $200M to do so.

Luka shouldn't bear all the brunt of leadership but he MUST do two things:

1) Lead and be mature where he can. 

2) Genuinely submit to the leadership and accountability of others (i.e. when your coach tells you to stop talking to the refs during gameplay, shut up and obey).

I personally think he has struggled mightily in both of these.

[Kammrath]

How do you know he is not in shape?

The same way I know that the earth isn't flat.

[KillerLeft]

If you sign a supermax I'm going to expect you to come into the season in shape.

Totally agree. No question.

But, just saying, he's the youngest dude to ever qualify for that contract, too. I think we're all kind of saying the same thing, just from different angles. 

The Mavs are currently a not so great organization (hopefully trying to improve behind the scenes) who find themselves a little too dependent on the maturation of a kid. We can certainly pick holes in how the kid is conducting himself, especially since we all have the perspective needed to spot his weaknesses and the areas in which he's taking a little too much for granted. 

Personally, I think Luka will continue to overcome these issues and come out on the other side of this being pretty close to exactly who we all want him to be. I just don't hold out much hope that this team will be a contender any time soon, and while I think he has the ability within him to accelerate that growth (even more than he already has) I think putting all eggs in that basket is a one-way ticket to Cleveland, circa 2011.

[hakeemfaan]

Two sides to every coin.  Look at KP, I'd say he's always been ahead of the curve from a maturity standpoint and it is equally fair to say that Luka is behind that curve.  If you want to be one of the best players in the world and the focal point of a franchise, I don't see why it is so hard to show up for a season in shape.

That's not excusing the Mavs.  I think they've entrenched themselves as one of the worst franchises in the league.

Both of them are immature.  I know it’s easy to rag on the Knicks but they absolutely wanted KP there and he gave them the runaround after his injury because he wanted out of there. 

Here too he has moped or jacked up some bad shots to show his frustration when he could have helped the team more by channeling that anger into defense and rebounding.  

The problem with this team is that the two best guys have maturity issues. Others like DFS, THJ, Brunson are true professionals but they have their talent shortcomings.

[cow]

Both of them are immature.  I know it’s easy to rag on the Knicks but they absolutely wanted KP there and he gave them the runaround after his injury because he wanted out of there. 

Here too he has moped or jacked up some bad shots to show his frustration when he could have helped the team more by channeling that anger into defense and rebounding.  

The problem with this team is that the two best guys have maturity issues. Others like DFS, THJ, Brunson are true professionals but they have their talent shortcomings.

Maybe KP has me fooled by how "media polished" he is.  I tend to have a lot of empathy from him as Knicks to Mavs is out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[KillerLeft]

Maybe KP has me fooled by how "media polished" he is.

Man, you can say that again. My dude is GREAT in interviews. It might be his #1 skill.

[cow]

Totally agree. No question.

But, just saying, he's the youngest dude to ever qualify for that contract, too. I think we're all kind of saying the same thing, just from different angles. 

The Mavs are currently a not so great organization (hopefully trying to improve behind the scenes) who find themselves a little too dependent on the maturation of a kid. We can certainly pick holes in how the kid is conducting himself, especially since we all have the perspective needed to spot his weaknesses and the areas in which he's taking a little too much for granted. 

Personally, I think Luka will continue to overcome these issues and come out on the other side of this being pretty close to exactly who we all want him to be. I just don't hold out much hope that this team will be a contender any time soon, and while I think he has the ability within him to accelerate that growth (even more than he already has) I think putting all eggs in that basket is a one-way ticket to Cleveland, circa 2011.

I think I'm one of the more critical people around here related to the Mavs organization.  

I also don't think I'm picking Luka apart with my criticisms.  He's a basketball savant and has all the potential in the world.  It just makes a lot of his antics all the more frustrating.  

I also think everyone knows the types of players I love.  It's what made Dirk special.  A rare combination of talent, size and work ethic.  When teams "figured" Dirk out, that's when he and Holger went to the lab (think the small athletic forwards We Believe threw at him).  Now Luka has a lot of road ahead of him and I'm far from writing him off, but it also okay to be frustrated with him.

[KillerLeft]

If Mark wanted a PG with a ring, I would have preferred Cassell.

Great post, and I mostly agree. And, I feel that I, as president of the Carlisle fan club, have bent over backwards to make it clear that I'm giving Kidd and his ideas a chance. At least, that's how I'm trying to approach things. I've written many times giving him credit for some specific things. 

Ultimately, I agree with your assessment that he hasn't really earned this opportunity, at least as a coach, but that doesn't mean he won't rise to it, I suppose. 

As to the portion I quoted, I don't think "PG with a ring" was the motivation. Sadly, I think it was more like "that's my buddy J-Kidd who I know pretends to enjoy me being around the team so much. He gets what makes my team so amazing."

[cow]

Man, you can say that again. My dude is GREAT in interviews. It might be his #1 skill.

Again it could me being fooled, but beyond being well spoken, he always seem to answer questions thoughtfully and he gives of an air of authenticity.  Being genuine isn't impossible to fake though.

[mavsluvr]

I don't think anyone is really excusing or breezing past the Mavs woes as an organization but that doesn't excuse Luka's easily correctable shortcomings.  If you sign a supermax I'm going to expect you to come into the season in shape.

That is theoretically logical, but in fact, some max players do report in less than peak condition, as a real life matter. Heck, even Dirk has done it, and no one would mistake him for a slouch. 

One of the podcasts sourcing the Mavs organization addressed Luka's conditioning at some length. Their report was that the Mavs know that Luka is playing his way into top shape, but he's in pretty good shape already, and they don't regard his conditioning as a significant on-court issue. They could make a production out of making him lose a few pounds or spend another couple hours a day on conditioning, but they don't think it would make any difference to on-court results, so they would rather place their energies into what they regard as more urgent problems. 

Of course, we can disagree with the assessment, if we can point to some evidence that Luka's conditioning is affecting wins and losses. (There was a time, for example, when he was red-faced and visibly huffing and puffing at the ends of games, but that's not the case any more. For another example, Luka admitted to being "tired" last night, for whatever reason, and maybe that's something to latch onto.) But, assuming that their assessment is more or less correct, are we saying that Luka should be forced to lose weight/work out more for the sake of setting an example, even though it's not going to make a difference on the court?

I believe it was the same pod that said there are really only three Mavs who keep themselves in tiptop shape as a matter of course -- Dorian, Hardaway, and Powell. The others, including Luka, stay in excellent shape compared to the average person, and then work themselves into game shape as needed. I don't think this is unique to the Mavs. 

None of this is to excuse Luka or anyone else from his responsibilities, but sometimes I think some of the fans (Twitter, mostly, not members of this august board) are knee-jerking over what may not be a very high-impact issue in the big picture. "Luka isn't in top shape. OMG! Nuclear alert! Defcon 1!" When if we  look past the issue to its impact and possible solutions, it's maybe #76 on the list of the top 100 problems. (Not saying you or anyone else on this forum is guilty of this, of course. Just a broad-ranging comment on casual sports fans, really.) And the conditioning is just an example. The other deficiencies perceived in Luka and others are all subject to the same analysis -- to what extent is this causing a functional problem, and if it is a material problem, what is the right solution? (Maybe blowing it up or sending Luka to Slovenia to do penance is the right answer, or maybe it isn't.)

[omahen]

He's a basketball savant and has all the potential in the world.  It just makes a lot of his antics all the more frustrating. 

But this is who he is. With his greats and his faults. I think you have to accept who he is and build around that. So if it is a fact that he is immature, you (as an organization) have to help him. Expecting him to change who he is as a person might be frustrating.

When teams "figured" Dirk out, that's when he and Holger went to the lab

What makes you think Luka is not doing that? First year his left hand was a problem and he worked on that. It is not a problem anymore. Than he added mid range shooting. I don't agree he is not improving all the time. I also don't think he is out of shape, at least in the context of not doing anything during summer. Luka had just two weaks off, otherwise it was competitive basketball and preparing for the new season. I think 2 months of international activities took its toll. I think he is still in a process of recharging the batteries to be his best self.

[KillerLeft]

I also don't think I'm picking Luka apart with my criticisms.  He's a basketball savant and has all the potential in the world.  It just makes a lot of his antics all the more frustrating.  

I don't think you are, either, and I agree! That was my whole point! I think we've all noticed the same problems (as evidenced by this thread), it's just that there are differing views of what should or even can be done about it, which is to be expected. 

I DEFINITELY think Luka should be held accountable for the things that hurt the team. TEAM success is the point, after all. It's someone's job to hold everyone on the team accountable to a standard. Is Luka's immaturity and status making that job more difficult? Maybe? Probably? Who knows?! But, that's the job. 

All I'm saying is that I don't think Luka now, today, is definitely representative of who 26 year old Luka is going to be. In fact, with much, much experience with those age groups professionally, I can almost promise you he's going to change just as much during these next few years as you'd expect someone to grow from say, age 10 to 16, or 16-21. It's just harder to notice unless your professional livelihood is wrapped up into depending up on it, because it's all about how they think. 

I'm just saying that him having these problems now, frustrated as we might be with them, is not a thing that should motivate us in a "he'll never be able to do it" direction. I'm not saying that as any direct rebuttal to something you said, it's just that I think the general tone of the board and Mavs fans is starting a slow trend towards losing faith that Luka is really the phenom we were all sure he was 18 months ago. I think that's the wrong way to analyze the problem, personally.