BOBI!!!: All things Boban

[StepBackJay]

Boban might be Porzingis best Frontcourt partner and he can shoot!

They are very complementary players.

Surprisingly so to my delight!

[Lucky Luciano]

Boban is awesome! Love the guy and what he brings here.

I think he will always be in a good position to get lots of minutes when we are playing against traditional centers who cannot spread the floor like wings. Though when we do play teams that have a 4 and 5 who spread the floor he will be limited.

Good news is that lots of teams have a non 3 point shooting big man who will be on the floor often. Hope to see more of Bobi to be honest!

[Hypermav]

https://www.foxsports.com/ohio/video/1635546691950

Professional opinion of the Boban KP combo.

[Mak]

Playing Boban ~15mpg every night would put him at well over 1,000 minutes for the season. Nearly twice as much as he’s ever played in a season his entire career. 

I’m not necessarily making a hard case against it... but it’s probably important to consider  he’s also a real-life giant that turns 32 in 2020 and would suddenly be playing more basketball at a high level than he ever has in his entire career. Scheduling hazards like back2backs would also put him in positions where he’s logging 30mpg in one day (24 hours or so).

[Mavsfan12]

Using Boban is like a modern day version of hack-a-shaq.  He is a game disruptor.  Sometimes, it will benefit the Mavs, sometimes not.  He will ALWAYS change the flow of the game when he is out there.  He is like a grenade - he WILL explode.  The trick is to make sure that he causes damage to the opposition and doesn't blow up the friendlies...  

I think that if the other team puts out a non-mobile, non-perimeter big, it makes sense to throw him out there - UNTIL people start scouting it and start forcing him into pick/rolls.  See that is why it worked so well against CLE - the have PG's who aren't really PG's and don't know how to break down the defense and exploit mismatches.  If you tried that against one of the many teams that have a upper level pg that excels in dribble penetration, or a team like the Spurs who will spin your head passing around the exterior, he is going to be a liability on D.  He was pretty awesome on O though.  Boom goes the dynamite!

[Dahlsim]

Using Boban is like a modern day version of hack-a-shaq.  He is a game disruptor.  Sometimes, it will benefit the Mavs, sometimes not.  He will ALWAYS change the flow of the game when he is out there.  He is like a grenade - he WILL explode.  The trick is to make sure that he causes damage to the opposition and doesn't blow up the friendlies...  

I think that if the other team puts out a non-mobile, non-perimeter big, it makes sense to throw him out there - UNTIL people start scouting it and start forcing him into pick/rolls.  See that is why it worked so well against CLE - the have PG's who aren't really PG's and don't know how to break down the defense and exploit mismatches.  If you tried that against one of the many teams that have a upper level pg that excels in dribble penetration, or a team like the Spurs who will spin your head passing around the exterior, he is going to be a liability on D.  He was pretty awesome on O though.  Boom goes the dynamite!

That's all true but if even if the other team doesn't have the obvious non-perimeter big, and even if the other team can exploit him defensively to some degree, that could still work ok for Dallas if Boban's offensive impact on the game more than offsets the defensive issue. 

That's not always the case but at times the need to score is greater than the need to defend at a high level. 
For example when the team has a lead, time is short for the opponent and they need to not only score but get stops against the Mavericks.  A single bucket or 2 could seal the game for Dallas. 

Sometimes Dallas defense is not able to stop the opponent even without Boban on the floor. 
Case in point was in the Laker game.  AD is a mobile and a good shooter so Boban was off the floor during the closing stretch of the game but that just allowed Davis to exploit his own size advantage against Powell and Kleber inside leading to the Laker comeback.

Should be more of an in game test and decision IMO then a pregame decision about the matchup with Marjonovic.

[Mavsfan12]

Using Boban is like a modern day version of hack-a-shaq.  He is a game disruptor.  Sometimes, it will benefit the Mavs, sometimes not.  He will ALWAYS change the flow of the game when he is out there.  He is like a grenade - he WILL explode.  The trick is to make sure that he causes damage to the opposition and doesn't blow up the friendlies...  

I think that if the other team puts out a non-mobile, non-perimeter big, it makes sense to throw him out there - UNTIL people start scouting it and start forcing him into pick/rolls.  See that is why it worked so well against CLE - the have PG's who aren't really PG's and don't know how to break down the defense and exploit mismatches.  If you tried that against one of the many teams that have a upper level pg that excels in dribble penetration, or a team like the Spurs who will spin your head passing around the exterior, he is going to be a liability on D.  He was pretty awesome on O though.  Boom goes the dynamite!

That's all true but if even if the other team doesn't have the obvious non-perimeter big, and even if the other team can exploit him defensively to some degree, that could still work ok for Dallas if Boban's offensive impact on the game more than offsets the defensive issue. 

That's not always the case but at times the need to score is greater than the need to defend at a high level. 
For example when the team has a lead, time is short for the opponent and they need to not only score but get stops against the Mavericks.  A single bucket or 2 could seal the game for Dallas. 

Sometimes Dallas defense is not able to stop the opponent even without Boban on the floor. 
Case in point was in the Laker game.  AD is a mobile and a good shooter so Boban was off the floor during the closing stretch of the game but that just allowed Davis to exploit his own size advantage against Powell and Kleber inside leading to the Laker comeback.

Should be more of an in game test and decision IMO then a pregame decision about the matchup with Marjonovic.

While I agree that it is something that can be investigated, I am thinking that your plan is more of a Don Nelson plan, rather than a RC plan.  RC is more risk adverse than that.  He will play adjustments with the best of them (I think he won the front office poll on that area of coaching), but I haven't seen him punt defense in that regard.  Putting multiple PGs on the court, yes.  Purposely hanging perimeter or pick and roll d out to dry?  Not so much.  I think this was actually tried in the preseason, and Boban got crushed.  I will be surprised if he plays much against perimeter bigs, or against penetrating pgs.  Cle was a perfect matchup for him.

[meistermatze]

Boban can be exploited if the opposing coach knows when he's going to be on the floor. In other words, I'm not sure you can dictate matchups with Boban; but you can counter with him. He's a tactical weapon Carlisle can deploy only if the conditions are right. 

An example would be if an opposing backup big is a non-shooter.

this.

[Dahlsim]

While I agree that it is something that can be investigated, I am thinking that your plan is more of a Don Nelson plan, rather than a RC plan.  RC is more risk adverse than that. 

He will play adjustments with the best of them (I think he won the front office poll on that area of coaching), but I haven't seen him punt defense in that regard. 

Putting multiple PGs on the court, yes.  Purposely hanging perimeter or pick and roll d out to dry?  Not so much.  I think this was actually tried in the preseason, and Boban got crushed.  I will be surprised if he plays much against perimeter bigs, or against penetrating pgs.  Cle was a perfect matchup for him.

Excellent observation about the difference in coaching personalities.  I agree with you that I don't expect Carlisle to try Boban out in the higher risk situations.  I'd love to see it but it requires 3 things to happen during Boban time that generally doesn't happen with Big TEX. 

1) Coach needs to maximize his offensive advantage using the Boban threat. 
2) Coach needs to accept the defensive liability as a trade off but minimize it. 
3) Coach needs to pull him quickly if the opponent is showing a hot scoring hand against big Bobi. 

Doc Rivers is one I've seen actually describe playing the trade off game with Boban in the most detailed.  He seemed to really get it that just because the opponent gets some good shots doesn't mean they are hitting them all the time while at the same time Boban near the rim is producing good things at a consistently high rate for his team.  

Its interesting that Carlisle commented on Boban playing good defense at the 3 point line.  
It may signal that if he can minimize the 3 point threat, Coach may be willing to live with some PnR threat in exchange for the offense, rebounding and foul generation a good Bobi stretch could give the Mavs.

One advantage Dallas and Carlisle have is that Luka so far looks like an absolute savant at playing off of both giants, KP and Boban. 

[Kammrath]

I'm just going to say it again for the record:

Boban is NOT the defensive liability people make him out to be.

[SportPsychMav]

Plus while Luka is the most hyped around the league right now, Boban is the most beloved Player by fans and players.

[SportPsychMav]

Can you rename this thread into an All things Boban.

Or Bobby Thread whatever? I thinks he deserves his own thread.


https://giphy.com/gifs/laclippers-dance-...jcAEqBEpW6



Dude is physically unreal. Look at these hands.

[Kammrath]

Can you rename this thread into an All things Boban.

Or Bobby Thread whatever? I thinks he deserves his own thread.

Only if the OP gives me permission. Don't want to change his thread title without that.

[StepBackJay]

Updated thread title to capture all Boban related discussion.

[Mavsfan12]

I'm just going to say it again for the record:

Boban is NOT the defensive liability people make him out to be.

His defensive toolbox is not full.  Despite being tall, (and long), he doesn't block shots.  He doesn't posses quickness - lateral or otherwise.  He is bad in the pick/roll and wouldn't be considered a good close-out defender.  Those are severe deficiencies in a player's defensive game.  

He does take up space and is an imposing figure at the rim - especially when paired with an actual shot blocker.  He also clogs the paint with his size - limiting movement through the paint and is a dominant rebounder - individual and team.  

Again, if he is a 30 minute player, you are going to be complaining about his D.  He is going to get game planned and exposed.  He is a talented matchup player.  Celebrate that.  I love the dude... but there is a reason he was available below room exception.  Doesn't mean he can't be a difference maker!  

The preseason game that gave me the most hope for him was against the Bucks.  I thought he played a solid game against a 4-out team.  Like you mentioned above, in that game, when he was in, they went to work WITH him.  A lot of Luka/Bobi pick/rolls.  So that is certainly part of the equation.  It will be part of the fun this season seeing how his role develops, for sure!  This team is so fun and has so many different possible storylines.  Going to be amazing!

---

I just went back and watched that game again, (thanks youtube tv and your beautiful unlimited dvr!), and Boban's success came against Robin Lopez.  When they took him out and went back to one non-shooter (Giannis), the advantage was quickly over.  But yeah, he dominated sideshow bob.  The next time they put him in, they took Lopez out for Bender and he chased him from the game. 

This is similar to the advantage he enjoyed against Cle the other night.  He is going to crush the R. Lopez/T. Thompson's of the NBA.  Funny he didn't get run against NO and Favors/Okafor.  Seems like that is his kind of matchup.  Will look for that next time.

[Dahlsim]

I'm just going to say it again for the record:

Boban is NOT the defensive liability people make him out to be.

His defensive toolbox is not full.  Despite being tall, (and long), he doesn't block shots.  He doesn't posses quickness - lateral or otherwise.  He is bad in the pick/roll and wouldn't be considered a good close-out defender.  Those are severe deficiencies in a player's defensive game.  

He does take up space and is an imposing figure at the rim - especially when paired with an actual shot blocker.  He also clogs the paint with his size - limiting movement through the paint and is a dominant rebounder - individual and team.  

Again, if he is a 30 minute player, you are going to be complaining about his D.  He is going to get game planned and exposed.  He is a talented matchup player.  Celebrate that.  I love the dude... but there is a reason he was available below room exception.  Doesn't mean he can't be a difference maker!  

The preseason game that gave me the most hope for him was against the Bucks.  I thought he played a solid game against a 4-out team.  Like you mentioned above, in that game, when he was in, they went to work WITH him.  A lot of Luka/Bobi pick/rolls.  So that is certainly part of the equation.  It will be part of the fun this season seeing how his role develops, for sure!  This team is so fun and has so many different possible storylines.  Going to be amazing!

---

I just went back and watched that game again, (thanks youtube tv and your beautiful unlimited dvr!), and Boban's success came against Robin Lopez.  When they took him out and went back to one non-shooter (Giannis), the advantage was quickly over.  But yeah, he dominated sideshow bob.  The next time they put him in, they took Lopez out for Bender and he chased him from the game. 

This is similar to the advantage he enjoyed against Cle the other night.  He is going to crush the R. Lopez/T. Thompson's of the NBA.  Funny he didn't get run against NO and Favors/Okafor.  Seems like that is his kind of matchup.  Will look for that next time.

Nice Bobi analysis.  

I'm interested in those cases where the match ups don't necessarily favor Boban.  The favorable match ups are a no brainer and make it clear why the Mavericks went out and  got Boban.   I think as Doc Rivers pointed out the tough Boban match ups could actually flip either way on any given rotation  just depending on how much the coach takes advantage of Boban and minimizes the defensive issues.   

This is a player that comes in and often scores and rebounds at an insane, Shaquille O'Neal like pace for his minutes on the floor.
If he's not scoring directly he's often collapsing the interior defenders so much that space opens up all over for the Luka's and KP's and Seth Curry's of the world.  

He's doing a better job in recent years of coming out to the 3 point line and challenging the stretch BIGS that are sent in to chase him off the floor.  So the question is, can you take more than you're giving up in those situations?   Its some risk yes, the opposing player or PnR combo might get hot shooting but as Doc said that's no guarantee that they do in Bobi's minutes. 

So I wish the coach would take it case by case, situation by situation and keep a rope ready to quickly pull Marjonovic if the it seems to be going south fast in those cases where its mismatch defense vs mismatch offense.   
This is particularly true imo when your team has the lead and the other team MUST get stops to catch you. 
Over the long stretch of a game, you can't give much defensively, hence Bobi's exposure time has to be limited.  

Sometimes however, over a short stretch, especially 4th quarters or during a comeback against you, you just need to keep scoring, even a few buckets, to secure a win.

[Mavsfan12]

Another way he can be weaponized is that when he is in the game, there seems to be an uptick in fouls.  He can be used to simply draw fouls and get the team into the bonus earlier - even if the matchups don't favor him.  Again, these are all pretty much Don Nelson schemes... lol.  Miss the mad scientist sometimes!  I am not sure if we will ever see a healthy Mavs team under RC try some of these tactics - but it will be entertaining drawing up ideas on napkins!

[Fuerza1]

Those of us who envisioned another big next to KP got a little snippet this past game with Boban; it was a lot of fun and they were just beating guys up. I think we'll see a healthy dose of it this season but as others alluded to, it shouldn't be an overdose. 

Boban is a niche player, he only averages 10 mins per game in his career and hasn't surpassed 58 games in a season. I don't see that going up given his size and age (31). 

If you use him more like say 20 mins/game, he will get exposed. In the playoffs where every detail is magnified, Boban has more trouble; last year vs TOR he was unplayable. His on/off in 18 career playoff games is significantly negative.

[SportPsychMav]

From a conditioning point of view he can play more minutes. He did so in Euroleague.

[fifteenth]

If you use him more like say 20 mins/game, he will get exposed.

Might have to be careful with his body too. Raising minutes significantly from one year to the next can lead to injury with an older player, even when they're not a giant. 

This is one of the reasons I've thought that Bobi is a player that Rick will keep in his back pocket, ready to use in the perfect scenario, rather than have him in the regular rotation.