BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering

[Kammrath]

RE: Nico's Presser

When asked about his "optimism" around JB returning he said that they will be optimistic until JB says he doesn't want to be in Dallas. Then he said again, "We are going to be optimistic. We have to be."

FWIW, the "we have to be" stuck out to me. It felt like a strange thing to say unless you really know deep down he might leave. I also didn't feel like his body language exuded confidence when he was talking about JB.

[Moviemavguy]

I think you are greatly underestimating how much losing their #2 scorer for nothing (or S&T table scraps) would hurt the Mavs. It would take years to recover from that. Wood is not a Brunson replacement, he's a potential fix for a major problem area in the front court. And Hardy is a project who will take years to become a productive NBA player, if he ever does.

More importantly, losing Brunson would be a sign Cuban still isn't serious about winning, and if he isn't serious now, he never will be.

This is hyperbole, and you somehow didn't address that I said we could trade for someone else.  Remember that Brunson had to fill in the scoring void left by THJ.  

And Spencer with a full training camp and starting might show a much better player.  

We were the 5th seed the season before in which Brunson did nothing in the playoffs.  The idea that it would take years to recover is just laughably misguided.  I love Brunson, but he has magically gone from criminally underrated to overrated realllly quickly.  

Yes, Wood is a fix in a much greater need IMO.  

You'd miss the intangibles the most with Brunson along with his insanely good consistency, but this isn't a years to recover situation by any means. Losing a tradable asset would hurt the most.

[SkenfromLMF]

We're you paying attention when Steve Nash left...

[Branduil]

This is hyperbole, and you somehow didn't address that I said we could trade for someone else.  Remember that Brunson had to fill in the scoring void left by THJ.  

And Spencer with a full training camp and starting might show a much better player.  

We were the 5th seed the season before in which Brunson did nothing in the playoffs.  The idea that it would take years to recover is just laughably misguided.  I love Brunson, but he has magically gone from criminally underrated to overrated realllly quickly.  

Yes, Wood is a fix in a much greater need IMO.  

You'd miss the intangibles the most with Brunson along with his insanely good consistency, but this isn't a years to recover situation by any means. Losing a tradable asset would hurt the most.

Sure, we could trade for someone else who is exactly as good. And I could win the lottery tomorrow. All possibilities.

[Dundalis]

I think you are greatly underestimating how much losing their #2 scorer for nothing (or S&T table scraps) would hurt the Mavs. It would take years to recover from that. Wood is not a Brunson replacement, he's a potential fix for a major problem area in the front court. And Hardy is a project who will take years to become a productive NBA player, if he ever does.

More importantly, losing Brunson would be a sign Cuban still isn't serious about winning, and if he isn't serious now, he never will be.

Brunson can literally be replaced internally. You move Dinwiddie up and sign someone like Dragic to fill that void. AFAIC on the court it would probably be more difficult to internally replace what someone like DFS brings than Brunson.

However Brunson the commodity is something that can't easily be replaced, because our roster is straight up old with pieces that just aren't that valuable compared to other teams as good or better than us around the league. That would be a big loss. Saying Brunson on court is so irreplaceable that it would take years to recover from is just straight up overrating his actual production. THJ/Wood can replace the points, and Dinwiddie can replace the ability to give Luka a rest from ball handling, and you can backfill him. The on court loss would be minor at best.

[Smitty]

The on court loss would be minor at best.

Somehow Brunson is still underrated on this board… the second best player on a WCF team who averaged 21.6 PPG, standing 6’ tall, in his 4th year in the league, playing second fiddle to the highest usage player of all time. 

And the on court loss would be minor AT BEST?!?

Your supposed savior to replace him in Dinwiddie, playing some of the best ball of his life in his 8th year, 4th team, just averaged 14 while having a massive size, athletic, and experience advantage. 

Dragic, 36 years young, is a career 14 ppg scorer in the playoffs who just got 10 per game this year and for the record, is not on the Mavs roster, so saying ‘internal replacements’ and pointing to Dragic don’t help your argument.

The effort by some to minimize Brunson is why ‘others’ are pushing back so strongly and then getting called Truthers or Hysteria or …

[Chicagojk]

Somehow Brunson is still underrated on this board… the second best player on a WCF team who averaged 21.6 PPG, standing 6’ tall, in his 4th year in the league, playing second fiddle to the highest usage player of all time. 

And the on court loss would be minor AT BEST?!?

Your supposed savior to replace him in Dinwiddie, playing some of the best ball of his life in his 8th year, 4th team, just averaged 14 while having a massive size, athletic, and experience advantage. 

Dragic, 36 years young, is a career 14 ppg scorer in the playoffs who just got 10 per game this year and for the record, is not on the Mavs roster, so saying ‘internal replacements’ and pointing to Dragic don’t help your argument.

The effort by some to minimize Brunson is why ‘others’ are pushing back so strongly and then getting called Truthers or Hysteria or …

Losing Jalen will be a huge setback.  Winning player.   Playing with Luka certainly helps hide some of his limitations.   But he has also found how to play with Luka.  This is more difficult especially if you like having the ball in your hands.   You may go 4-5 possessions where you don’t get a chance to dribble.  That can be tough to stay in rhythm.  And he does all this with great efficiency.   

Losing him will be such a self own.  Should have taken care of it well before this time.  We will see.

[Smitty]

Losing Jalen will be a huge setback.  Winning player.   Playing with Luka certainly helps hide some of his limitations.   But he has also found how to play with Luka.  This is more difficult especially if you like having the ball in your hands.   You may go 4-5 possessions where you don’t get a chance to dribble.  That can be tough to stay in rhythm.  And he does all this with great efficiency.   

Losing him will be such a self own.  Should have taken care of it well before this time.  We will see.

Absolutely. What STAR will want to come here and leave his ego at the door to play second fiddle to Luka? The Mavs will have to build a TEAM like they did with Dirk.

I’m old enough to remember how this board wanted Kyle Lowry so bad. And his services at the young age of 36 cost the Heat 28M this year for a whopping 7.8 ppg in the playoffs. Who’s still only a career 14.8 ppg scorer. Yet somehow Jalen’s game, at 25 years old, can be easily replaced..

[jdb152]

We're you paying attention when Steve Nash left...

You're not paying attention to basketball if you are drawing comparisons between Nash and Brunson.

[jdb152]

I think you are greatly underestimating how much losing their #2 scorer for nothing (or S&T table scraps) would hurt the Mavs. It would take years to recover from that. Wood is not a Brunson replacement, he's a potential fix for a major problem area in the front court. And Hardy is a project who will take years to become a productive NBA player, if he ever does.

More importantly, losing Brunson would be a sign Cuban still isn't serious about winning, and if he isn't serious now, he never will be.

I love Brunson but you're overestimating his loss. I say that as a fan that doesn't want to lose him. For DAL the expectation is most likely this. If he walks, Dinwiddie replaces him in the starting lineup. The return of THJ replaces Dinwiddie on the second unit. Adding Dragic more or less erases his loss entirely, in the short term. Dealing with just the talent on hand, I'm certain they expect a huge leap forward for Josh Green, who has already displayed exceptional ability as a passer. They have options that lead to them not missing a beat.

Where this narrative that MC isn't serious about winning comes from is beyond me. It's like everyone is choosing to forget about the first decade plus because he hasn't been willing to pay the tax for the last decade, a decade that fielded teams with no shot a contention. Were he paying the tax from 2012-2020, I'd have more concerns about his ability as an owner. Nobody willingly pays that kind of money for a shot at being the 7th seed. Now, with their first taste of real success in the Luka era, I have no doubt he returns to the spender he was once mocked, by his colleagues, for being. Playoff success essentially allows you to print money, especially when it is fronted by a 1st team, All-NBA player.

[jdb152]

Somehow Brunson is still underrated on this board… the second best player on a WCF team who averaged 21.6 PPG, standing 6’ tall, in his 4th year in the league, playing second fiddle to the highest usage player of all time. 

And the on court loss would be minor AT BEST?!?

Your supposed savior to replace him in Dinwiddie, playing some of the best ball of his life in his 8th year, 4th team, just averaged 14 while having a massive size, athletic, and experience advantage. 

Dragic, 36 years young, is a career 14 ppg scorer in the playoffs who just got 10 per game this year and for the record, is not on the Mavs roster, so saying ‘internal replacements’ and pointing to Dragic don’t help your argument.

The effort by some to minimize Brunson is why ‘others’ are pushing back so strongly and then getting called Truthers or Hysteria or …

It isn't minimization. It's an honest accounting of the situation. I love JB. I do not want him to leave. We are better with him than without. Still, it won't be the end of the world, especially if this thing pushes to 30/per. DAL is fine in the short term. It's the mid to longer term where this loss would become problematic. Even then we're looking at a time when contracts start coming off the books. I don't see the situation as ideal but it isn't doom either.

[KillerLeft]

They have options that lead to them not missing a beat.

Some of what you say before this sentence is true, but this sentence is not.

[Mavsfan12]

Can someone briefly describe why Brunson is not a RFA?  I have heard that it is something to do with how his contract was created, and that it was an error.  Anyone have this?

[F Gump]

Can someone briefly describe why Brunson is not a RFA?  I have heard that it is something to do with how his contract was created, and that it was an error.  Anyone have this?

Player who is not a 1st round pick is restricted free agent (assuming his team offers a qualifying offer) after year 1, 2, or 3.

Such players do not have a salary scale OR a cap exception. So as it is negotiated, there's a push-pull on how long you get to lock up the player at the minimum, how much will be guaranteed, if there's an option year, etc. If a team doesn't have cap room or part of a yearly exception, all that can be offered is minimum salary exception (2 years at the most, no bonus or frills, exactly minimum), so the only question is how many years and how much is the guarantee.

JB (pick 33) signed a 4-year deal, 3 years plus a team option, which means he becomes a UFA after it ends. It wasn't a one-off deal.

NY's Robinson, drafted a few picks later (pick 36), got the exact same thing (3 yrs + team option). Ike Bonga (pick 39) got the exact same deal as JB. In contrast, Devonte Graham (picked in-between, pick 34) got 3 years with no option, became a RFA, but his price got too big for CHA to want him, so he was gone in free agency (in this case, with the Pels lacking cap room, there was a SNT). Gary Trent Jr (pick 37) got a deal like Graham and was re-signed as a RFA but he was wanted and the deal was a bigger one (avg about 17.3M). Kurucs (pick 40) got a deal like Graham, but at the end he was waived out of the league.

[mvossman]

I love Brunson but you're overestimating his loss. I say that as a fan that doesn't want to lose him. For DAL the expectation is most likely this. If he walks, Dinwiddie replaces him in the starting lineup. The return of THJ replaces Dinwiddie on the second unit. Adding Dragic more or less erases his loss entirely, in the short term. Dealing with just the talent on hand, I'm certain they expect a huge leap forward for Josh Green, who has already displayed exceptional ability as a passer. They have options that lead to them not missing a beat.

Where this narrative that MC isn't serious about winning comes from is beyond me. It's like everyone is choosing to forget about the first decade plus because he hasn't been willing to pay the tax for the last decade, a decade that fielded teams with no shot a contention. Were he paying the tax from 2012-2020, I'd have more concerns about his ability as an owner. Nobody willingly pays that kind of money for a shot at being the 7th seed. Now, with their first taste of real success in the Luka era, I have no doubt he returns to the spender he was once mocked, by his colleagues, for being. Playoff success essentially allows you to print money, especially when it is fronted by a 1st team, All-NBA player.

I think you are underplaying Brunson impact.  Dinwiddie is not as good as Brunson, particularly when Luka is not on the court.  Don't know that Dragic signs here (even if Brunson leaves) and he does not cover Dinwiddie value.  THJ was going to be here regardless and we need his depth.  Counting on Green to make a huge jump and contribute to playmaking is very optimistic.  They don't have options to not miss a beat.  Anything they do would be better if you added Brunson to the mix.

[F Gump]

Brunson is being considerably under-appreciated as to his on-court value in these discussions. Losing him would be quite a loss. He's a VERY good player, because he is able to impact the game. And he keeps getting better.

But Doncic is being under-appreciated too. Those who think the Mavs would be doomed without JB, if he decides to walk, are sleeping on just how good Luka is.

I hope JB stays. He matters here. But if necessary, there will be other ways ....because, Luka.

[jdb152]

Some of what you say before this sentence is true, but this sentence is not.

No. It's pretty spot on. In any equation there is a point of critical mass. Unlike his predecessor, I have full faith that Nico has done all the math for every, know equation & made up plenty of his own contingencies. To say that the notion they don't have options to maintain what they have going is to admit that you are a member of the Doom'n'Gloom crowd. We just had the draft. In the last ten days, they produced a young talent at a position of need while clearing three roster spots for nothing, essentially, & added an exciting prospect for nothing. The TPE hasn't expired yet. FA hasn't opened yet. They have their MLE and some moveable deals. To think they couldn't overcome the loss of JB is myopic. Remember, I didn't say it would be easy, nor did I say I wanted JB anywhere but here. You won't get a more objective evaluation from anyone else.

[Branduil]

To say that the notion they don't have options to maintain what they have going is to admit that you are a member of the Doom'n'Gloom crowd

This is pure delusion. The Mavs had severe problems with depth during the playoffs. PG was the one are where they didn't have this problem, but losing Brunson for nothing will absolutely introduce it again.

This is reminding me far too much of when Mark Cuban kicked Tyson Chandler to the curb. "Well, they obviously will find a better replacement" -they didn't. Turns out Mark Cuban was just an idiot in love with his own stupid ideas about team-building and so rejected a guy who fit and wanted to be here. And the Mavs spent a decade recovering from that mistake.

[jdb152]

I think you are underplaying Brunson impact.  Dinwiddie is not as good as Brunson, particularly when Luka is not on the court.  Don't know that Dragic signs here (even if Brunson leaves) and he does not cover Dinwiddie value.  THJ was going to be here regardless and we need his depth.  Counting on Green to make a huge jump and contribute to playmaking is very optimistic.  They don't have options to not miss a beat.  Anything they do would be better if you added Brunson to the mix.

Not at all. I never said those things were guarantees or that it would be easy. Still, I think the result forecasting doom is clouded vision. Dinwiddie will be 18 months beyond his surgery, with a full offseason to further acclimate to his team/system & benefit from the medical staff. Totally different players but he is fully capable of giving you 16/4. If that needs to be the primary ball handler off the bench, so be it. We didn't have THJ after the new year. If he's here, there's another 15ppg guy. They already added a guy that is going to land between 18-22ppg in Wood. There are quality, affordable guards other than Dragic. As for Green, I told folks when he was hot that his growth was not worthy but that he would be a zero factor in the playoffs. He's entering Year 3 now. The jump usually starts happening, for prospects like him, in Year 3. I'm not suggesting he leaps into the starting lineup or becomes a member of the closing 5. To think he could become an viable option as the third wing or become a real threat in the passing game is completely reasonable. After tasting some success and now knowing he has a staff that will reward him, I expect a significant step forward from him.(to know I'm on the level here, I lost my mind when they passed on Bey to take him).

I don't want JB gone. We are absolutely a better team with him than without. Still, to look at the four players I mentioned, know that we still have a TPE for a day or so, know that FA hasn't opened & that's when things really get going, see the tradeable contracts and think a guy like Nico, who has shown so much in less than a year, can't find a way to keep this team going is folly. That's what I am saying. All this panic is basically the result of the last decade Nelson gave us. Nelson is gone. Nico ain't Nelson.

[jdb152]

This is pure delusion. The Mavs had severe problems with depth during the playoffs. PG was the one are where they didn't have this problem, but losing Brunson for nothing will absolutely introduce it again.

This is reminding me far too much of when Mark Cuban kicked Tyson Chandler to the curb. "Well, they obviously will find a better replacement" -they didn't. Turns out Mark Cuban was just an idiot in love with his own stupid ideas about team-building and so rejected a guy who fit and wanted to be here. And the Mavs spent a decade recovering from that mistake.

Due respect but let go of your woobie. The PTSD from a decade ago is killing you. First, MC has stated more times than I can count, that they can pay JB more than anyone & he doesn't care about the tax. I didn't agree with the Chandler decision either but there is a brutal truth you need to face, We would have spent most of that decade struggling regardless. That group would have been good for one more, elite run. I wish we would have got it. Judging Cuban on, to use your word, delusion that the decade following that decision would have played out significantly different is irrational. Doubting that the guy who owners hated for all of his spending when he had something will return to spending when he once again has something is just ignorant. He didn't spend for years ...... while we were mediocre and worse. Had he we'd be the Knicks or worse. It was the right decision. You don't spend until you land a knockout punch, Too many offseasons were wasted trying to land that blow via FA. They finally did so via the draft and he immediately resigns a guy that hadn't played in a season and a half a max deal. Dude is going to spend.

As to Brunson. I am not saying he is easily replaceable, or replaceable at all, but his position is amongst the easiest to find good, serviceable bodies for. The rules have made this the golden era for pg play, period. What I believe is too many of y'all are carrying around old baggage. Breath. We have options. More to the point, we have a creative, well connected FO that can find those options and a savant, former PG as our HC. I want JB here. I don't think he's going anywhere. 

I'd also like to remind everyone that we could have a dream offseason, retain JB, find a rim protector and third wing ......... and still not replicate this season. The West is loaded and only getting better. If the thought of losing Brunson has you all ready to run up the flag and wait for next summer, you don't have the stones for this. Breath.