Poll: Brunson:
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Start
65.22%
30 65.22%
Bench
8.70%
4 8.70%
Trade
26.09%
12 26.09%
Total 46 vote(s) 100%
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BRUNSON BURNER: to NYK for 4yrs/$104M (no SnT) | NYK docked 2025 2nd for tampering
#21
(11-06-2021, 07:07 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: Most of the mavs beat writers are cuban fanboys that are scared to report negative and lose access. Not too different from jerry and the cowgirls.

It’s actually refreshing to hear someone be real and speak the truth

I think reporters should report the news, positive, negative or neutral. And I often like Tim's stuff even though he mixes his editorializing in with his reporting in a way that seems to pass the opinions off as news.

The pushback I have about your statement bolded above is that Tim's stuff about Brunson wasn't news or truth, it was opinion.

Nothing wrong with opinion, and Tim's take on JB may be one many would agree with. But it's not news or truth. I think the distinction is important.
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#22
I really think that Brunson is gone, even if we offer him as much as anybody else. He wants to be the starting PG and run the offense somewhere. Unless we move Luka to 3 or 4 and make them dual facilitators, Brunson is gone.
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#23
Simply put, the case against Brunson is he's small and not a great athlete. In the words of Popovich "he plays really smart, is a tough kid, he is skilled."

I think he can be an 18/4/5 guy  ... but he needs to be able to consistently win his matchup, certainly against bigger guards like Reggie Jackson, but also hold his own against some fierce starting point guards. Curry, Lillard, Kyrie, Trae, Murray, Morant, Holiday, CP3, Conley, Lowry, Fox, Westbrook. 

I struggle to see it and even a best case scenario has Brunson in the bottom half of the league's point guards.

Of course, you can add Luka to the mix and debate where Brunson+Luka might rank among the league's starting guard tandems ... but doing so brings some even bigger, stronger, more athletic opposing guards into the conversation ....and that's not good news for a small, slow guy like Brunson and an inconsistent defender like Luka.

All of that said, Brunson has certainly worked on his body. Has he developed elite NBA strength, speed, quickness? I just don't know.
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#24
I think a question from the poll is very difficult to answer. Brunson has been good last regular season too, but then totally disapeared in playoffs. Two excellent games doesn't really provide enough evidence if this is sustainable and if it can carry over to playoffs. The key question for Mavs is if he can be a starter. On paper they have whole season to figure it out, but if the answer is "no" at the end of the season, he will walk for nothing, which Mavs just can't afford. 

Seems like Brunson has made it very clear what his intentions are, so it is quite surprising to me that the Brunson dilemma hasn't been settled before the season. Either you show commitment and start him (which is what he wants) or you trade him while he still has full season on his contract left.

Despite he may seem as a rental at this stage due to his unrestricted status, his bird rights have value as the team looking to get him would have to carve out some 15 mil of cap space if Brunson continues to perform like this. Not many teams have cap space next season and SnT are not easy to execute. So trading for his low contract and bird rights makes a lot of sense to a team that wants to get him unless Brunson is looking to run show with the likes of SA, Detroit or OKC. On the other hand Brunson will have a huge say in the trade as the team targeting him has to know they will pay him 10-15 mil next year and they have to be sure he will actually stay with them. So no one will pay a ransom to get him at this stage. We are likely looking at protected FRP and perhaps ability to dump a contract, imho. Chicago got a protected FRP, SRP and bad contract (Jones Jr) for Markannen and I think they got a great deal.

At this stage I would try Brunson as a starter, probably till trade deadline and then make a decision. If it works and he is happy we can keep him. If it works but he still has to move we look for a trade. If it doesn't work, we look for a trade. Once KP hopefully comes back my starting unit would be Luka/Brunson/THJ/DFS/KP.
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#25
I don't think it's a bad idea to let the season play out before signing Brunson to anything. He's a good player but I'm not sure there's a team who will give him $25 million to start. Doesn't matter if he wants to start. San Antonio and OKC come up but I'd rather have Dejonte or SGA. Detroit has a 20 year old no 7 pick to develop in Killian Hayes. Maybe New Orleans or Orlando but I don't see either of those teams shelling out big-time starter money for Brunson. 

Brunson may just be what he is: a good to great backup point guard who happens to be the Mavs second or third best player.

To be clear, I still think he should start here. If he defends he'll look at lot like the next Fred Van Vleet ... but that may be asking too much.
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#26
I think Brunson is becoming a star. What a player. Fits perfect next to Luka. When can we sign him for long term? As he plays in more playoffs, I do believe he will dominate there as well, its about experience (i hope).
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#27
(11-06-2021, 08:46 PM)burekemde Wrote: I think Brunson is becoming a star. What a player. Fits perfect next to Luka. When can we sign him for long term? As he plays in more playoffs, I do believe he will dominate there as well, its about experience (i hope).

He is definitely underrated around here, and has been from the beginning. He's more creative with the ball right now than I ever thought he could be, and there's no reason to think he has reached his ceiling.
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#28
(11-06-2021, 08:46 PM)burekemde Wrote: I think Brunson is becoming a star. What a player. Fits perfect next to Luka. When can we sign him for long term?  

This summer (for what he will command).
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#29
(11-06-2021, 01:12 PM)omahen Wrote: Seems like Brunson has made it very clear what his intentions are, so it is quite surprising to me that the Brunson dilemma hasn't been settled before the season. Either you show commitment and start him (which is what he wants) or you trade him while he still has full season on his contract left.
Per a number of reports from generally reliable sources, JB has indeed made it clear what his intentions are. I think that probably a lot of MFFLs (including myself) just don't really want to hear it. From what we are told, starting is not the limit of his ambition. His #1 goal (aside from getting a high paycheck) is said to be to run his own team, rather than play second fiddle to someone else. If that's the deal, playing alongside Luka would not seem to be what he wants, going forward. 


Of course, there are only so many positions like that available, and other teams in the league may or may not be willing to provide him that opportunity. In which case, he might have to "settle for" playing with a guy like Luka, after all, lol.
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#30
(11-08-2021, 09:38 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: Per a number of reports from generally reliable sources, JB has indeed made it clear what his intentions are. I think that probably a lot of MFFLs (including myself) just don't really want to hear it. From what we are told, starting is not the limit of his ambition. His #1 goal (aside from getting a high paycheck) is said to be to run his own team, rather than play second fiddle to someone else. If that's the deal, playing alongside Luka would not seem to be what he wants, going forward. 


Of course, there are only so many positions like that available, and other teams in the league may or may not be willing to provide him that opportunity. In which case, he might have to "settle for" playing with a guy like Luka, after all, lol.

Very interesting ML. What do you think about the scenario as the one in the last game/ two games. Where Luka allows JB to run the offense some considerable time? He was on purpose involving JB to control the offense.

I think it worked well. It was clear to me that the defenses were surprised by this. No attention was on JB, and all on Luka. They were waiting for screens to Luka and plays drawn in that side Luka was. Instead, Brunson had "easy" path to the rim, with single matchups and no double teams. And, this is exactly what we want I guess - A second playmaker that gets the defenses in trouble when they focus too much on Luka. It worked.

Do you think Brunson would be happy staying long term with those conditions? For an analogy like a running back commitee in NFL?
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#31
(11-08-2021, 09:38 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: His #1 goal (aside from getting a high paycheck) is said to be to run his own team, rather than play second fiddle to someone else. If that's the deal, playing alongside Luka would not seem to be what he wants, going forward. 



(11-08-2021, 09:38 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: Of course, there are only so many positions like that available, and other teams in the league may or may not be willing to provide him that opportunity. In which case, he might have to "settle for" playing with a guy like Luka, after all, lol.


I think this is the main reason why MFFL's don't really care what Brunson says/wants.

How many NBA teams right now would take Brunson over their starting point guard, AND has the resources to offer him a big $ contract this summer?

Looking around, there are little to none that can satisfy both requirements. Only the Pelicans, maybe Pistons, and maybe the Knicks would take him as their starting PG right now and let him run the show. Only one of those, the Pistons, will have more 40 mil in space. Pelicans will be right around 15.5 mil. Knicks about 18.5 mil. 

Can't see those teams making Brunson their #1 priority, and even if they do the Mavs have the bird rights to match any deal. Pistons have Cade and their own lottery PG in K.Hayes that makes me dubious that they'd money whip Brunson out of Dallas. Of course if Brunson truly wants out then there's no stopping him, no matter how much $ Dallas offers. 

Which means it doesn't matter what the Mavs do. The only option is to trade him if Brunson has made it clear what his intentions are. 

Maybe we live in a world where we can turn Brunson+KP into Brandon Ingram+Valanciunas...? What a coup that would be!
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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#32
(11-08-2021, 09:48 AM)burekemde Wrote: Very interesting ML. What do you think about the scenario as the one in the last game/ two games. Where Luka allows JB to run the offense some considerable time? He was on purpose involving JB to control the offense.

I think it worked well. It was clear to me that the defenses were surprised by this. No attention was on JB, and all on Luka. They were waiting for screens to Luka and plays drawn in that side Luka was. Instead, Brunson had "easy" path to the rim, with single matchups and no double teams. And, this is exactly what we want I guess - A second playmaker that gets the defenses in trouble when they focus too much on Luka. It worked.

Do you think Brunson would be happy staying long term with those conditions? For an analogy like a running back commitee in NFL?

Agree with your description of events. While I acknowledge and love Brunson's growing accomplishments, I do fear that his breakout success is at least partly the result of the "surprise" factor you mention. He really disappeared in the second half, after the Celtics made their adjustments. If he continues to have wildly successful games, opponents will likely start planning for him, and it will get harder. And he's still a question mark for the playoffs. 

As far as whether Brunson would be happy being Player B in a high-powered back court, I think he'll do that if he perceives it as his best option. But we keep being told that his first choice seems to be to move on to greener pastures, and that we shouldn't hold it against him if he does, because it is natural for a young, talented point guard to want to spread his wings and fly on his own. I don't know.
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#33
(11-08-2021, 09:51 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: I think this is the main reason why MFFL's don't really care what Brunson says/wants.

My impression has not been so much that MFFLs don't care what Brunson says/wants, as that the ones who are aware of it don't really want to believe it. Of course, if people really don't care about it, then I surely shouldn't be wasting everyone's time passing it along. (That's cool, it wouldn't be the first time I've introduced a subject people just weren't that interested in, lol.)

How many NBA teams right now would take Brunson over their starting point guard, AND has the resources to offer him a big $ contract this summer?

Looking around, there are little to none that can satisfy both requirements. Only the Pelicans, maybe Pistons, and maybe the Knicks would take him as their starting PG right now and let him run the show. Only one of those, the Pistons, will have more 40 mil in space. Pelicans will be right around 15.5 mil. Knicks about 18.5 mil. 

Can't see those teams making Brunson their #1 priority, and even if they do the Mavs have the bird rights to match any deal. Pistons have Cade and their own lottery PG in K.Hayes that makes me dubious that they'd money whip Brunson out of Dallas.

I appreciate your organizing all those thoughts for us. They highlight the fact that he may or may not be able to achieve his ambitions, come this summer. But I don't think we can rule it out, if that's really what he wants. Unexpected situations develop frequently, and there are 29 other teams in the league. It only takes one. It wouldn't even really have to be a team where he slotted in immediately as the #1 guard, if he saw a clear path to getting there in a relatively short time frame. Such a path wouldn't appear to exist in Dallas. 

 Of course if Brunson truly wants out then there's no stopping him, no matter how much $ Dallas offers. 

Which means it doesn't matter what the Mavs do. The only option is to trade him if Brunson has made it clear what his intentions are. 

I think that's what it comes down to. If he's really not interested in staying here, then there is no point in making adjustments just to cater to his desires. (Not saying the Mavs are doing that, and don't think that they are.) 

I think conventional wisdom is probably that he should be traded this season, but I won't be surprised if he isn't. That isn't Cuban's MO, even if it "should" be, and JB's salary is still so modest (by NBA standards) that there is a fairly low ceiling on what return he could fetch. Still worth a try, though, if he wants to leave anyway. 




Maybe we live in a world where we can turn Brunson+KP into Brandon Ingram+Valanciunas...? What a coup that would be!
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#34
Maybe I should've added a fourth option. Bench him, but give him starter minutes. 

I like Kidd's rotation when KP plays ... try Brunson as JET 2.0 and see if he can hold up.
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#35
https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2021/11...you-think/


Quote:When they play together, the Mavericks’ offense is off the charts, scoring 121.3 points per 100 possessions, which currently ranks among the 99th percentile of all lineups leaguewide.
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#36
(11-09-2021, 12:18 PM)sefant Wrote: When they play together, the Mavericks’ offense is off the charts, scoring 121.3 points per 100 possessions, which currently ranks among the 99th percentile of all lineups leaguewide.


Curious where they are getting their numbers. The NBA.com number as of today is 114.0 as their offensive rating per 100 possessions....

What is interesting is that Luka+JB is literally Luka's only significant-minute pairing that is positive. They are +3.5 when they are on the court together while every other Luka pairing (with 60+ minutes) this year is from -11.3 to -19.9.
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#37
(11-09-2021, 12:18 PM)sefant Wrote: https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2021/11...you-think/

This looks like the anti-Cato offering :-)
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#38
(11-09-2021, 12:18 PM)sefant Wrote: https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2021/11...you-think/


Thanks for posting

“I was in the draft room when [former general manager] Donnie [Nelson] made the decision,” Procopio tells me. “He had to have him and wasn’t taking no for an answer. He repeatedly said he’s a winner about 30 times before the team drafted him. Which took a lot of guts because the head coach actively wanted Yogi Ferrell, and he went against the grain to draft him

Cry Cry
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#39
(11-09-2021, 01:03 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: “I was in the draft room when [former general manager] Donnie [Nelson] made the decision,” Procopio tells me. “He had to have him and wasn’t taking no for an answer. He repeatedly said he’s a winner about 30 times before the team drafted him. Which took a lot of guts because the head coach actively wanted Yogi Ferrell, and he went against the grain to draft him


SUPER interesting. Shows how much power RC had and how much Donnie had to fight to get his way. Crazy.
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#40
Sorry for my ignorance, but I essentially understand that the Mavs' options with Brunson right now being very limited; that they can only sign him on Bird rights to a very low (compared to his market value) number. Therefore, their options are 1) trade him at the deadline - for a crap-ton of value if his current play continues, but that value being limited by the fact that his receiving team will only receive the tiny Bird rights that the Mavs have; 2) hold him for the rest of the season for his on-court value and let him walk in the offseason (essentially mortgaging next year's roster for this year's on-court efforts); or 3) keep him the rest of the year and attempt to make moves in the offseason that create big time cap room so that he can be signed with it. 

Realizing that some here have no interest in retaining Brunson at his market value regardless, am I wrong? I am presuming that Brunson isn't going to give the Mavs any sort of hometown discount due to wanting his own team and having to mortgage that (even if given a guaranteed starting position) given the presence of Luka.
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