NBA TRADE TALK: TDL over

[SleepingHero]

Not so sure about it. He is certainly a good offensive player. But is he willing to play defense? He was also never part of a winning team. In any case, I don't think Mavs have nearly enough assets to get him.

See I agree with you to an extent. But it hasn't even been 8 months since NOP fans were questioning whether Ingram and Zion could even fit together. Since Zion would always be iced out in the 4th and Adams would be camping in the lane.

Griffin doubled down on his center philosophy trading and extending JV for Adams. Because of all the smoke that the Pelicans weren't sold on Ingram and Zions long term fit, and the fact that NOP GM literally just traded Lonzo for a bucket of spare parts, I think Ingram can be had for a lot less than we think. 

NOP seemed to be interested in THJ last summer at a higher price. So I assume they'd still be interested in him on a discount. Add in DFS and JB+Picks the Mavs package seems pretty interesting to me at least.

[Mikelo]

Tim to Magic..I don't think a team undergoing deep reconstruction (worst team in the league) would accept a contract like Tim's, without incentives...why would they do it?...also they are loaded with young guards, who have to be given minutes for them to develop...Cole/Suggs/Hampton/Fultz etc... Maybe Boston for Horford... Cavs for Love...

[KillerLeft]

Is DFS/Maxi/KP better than RoCo/Ingram/KP? On paper to me it's a massive step forward in talent level. 

Your opinion is as valid as mine (maybe more) but to me, your resulting lineup isn't even one that I'd try. It's a 5 and two 4's, to me. I would absolutely not try to play Covington at the 3 (I think he's closer to a 4/5 than a 4/3), especially now that he is starting to slow down. Ingrim, maybe, but honestly I don't like it. I don't think either of those guys' secondary position fit (3) is as good as DFS' secondary fit at the 4, and his fit at the 4 is so less than ideal that we're trying to identify another player to rotate with Kleber to avoid it (maybe we don't even need to do that). 

I like the talent change, but I think the roster fit gets worse, and significantly so.

[SleepingHero]

Your opinion is as valid as mine (maybe more) but to me, your resulting lineup isn't even one that I'd try. It's a 5 and two 4's, to me. I would absolutely not try to play Covington at the 3 (I think he's closer to a 4/5 than a 4/3), especially now that he is starting to slow down. Ingrim, maybe, but honestly I don't like it. I don't think either of those guys' secondary position fit (3) is as good as DFS' secondary fit at the 4, and his fit at the 4 is so less than ideal that we're trying to identify another player to rotate with Kleber to avoid it. 

I like the talent change, but I think the roster fit gets worse, and significantly so.

Im curious why you think RoCo has no flexibility and is staunchly a 4/5? He played the 3 for the first  6 years of his career where he had the most success. It wasn't until he got to HOU and was forced to guard centers did his perception change. Covington has been one of the best most versatile defenders in the league for his entire career, much like DFS.

If anything, I think he's shown he has the ability to guard 3-5 extremely well with great overall help defense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxCdI_MUIKE

This video really does highlight Covingtons defensive versatility (even though you're subjugated to Harden Ball as well so fair warning!)

The one thing I have concerns with is losing DFS 3pt shooting ability. Both of the guys that are replacing him have had less than optimal years.

[haveitall]

I think the team will stand pat.  There is a big risk in bringing new players mid season.  It took 2 months for the team to get chemistry and play well under Kidd's system, which is now looking quite amazing.  Unless there is a no brainer trade, or a trade for a star I don't see the point.  This team is really deep, even Nkilitina and Green can score 20 on a given night.  DFS has turned in Pippen light on defense, and KP is playing the best basketball of his career.  Also I wouldn't discount Hardaway's game, he's been cold this season but that usually averages out, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him have some monster games.

[Mikelo]

I doubt NOP will split Ingram into Brunson(having Graham)/DFS (having Murphy/Jones/Hart) etc... do they need talent, maybe trade him for a better fit (SGA)? Role...They are served.. I would be very interested in getting Barnes back(rumors he's available)...or keeping an eye on the Raptors situation...with Anunoby/Barnes/Siakam...they overlap a bit...and maybe Siakam will be available at some point...a guy like that, i think we'd be as good as anyone

[KillerLeft]

Im curious why you think RoCo has no flexibility and is staunchly a 4/5?

It's partly roster fit.

It's partly how I see the team using DFS this year (on both ends).

It's partly Covington's age and slight level of ongoing decline (I guess this is subjective, but it's how I feel).

It's partly personal preference for player types and how they're used in context (my opinion has no bearing on what the Mavs will do, but has a huge impact on how I'll interact here with talking points).

[mvossman]

The more I think about it, the more I think the play is to trade DFS+THJ in a package for Ingram. Then go to Portland and get Covington for whatever bargain deal you can to save them money. 

It'll hurt to trade God-King. But Ingram is EXACTLY what we're looking for. He's also a good playmaker. I'm starting to rev my engine for Ingram.

Is Ingram exactly what we are looking for?  He does not play defense.  Don't see the fit on that side of the ball.  And I am not interested in paying the assets to get him.  

I much prefer the second part.  Lets just get RoCo at a much more reasonable price.  A starting lineup of KP/RoCo/DFS/Luka/Brunson would be an upgrade and allow us to bring Maxi off the bench.

[SleepingHero]

Whoever Mavs bring in next, will be overpaid both in terms of assets and likely salary. Everyone knows when team wants to go for real contender and charge accordingly. If Mavs think Grant is the missing piece, if he is available, price should not be the limitation. Or we will just continue to discuss for another three years which players where too expensive to trade for while Mavs keep changing around the edges. 

I think Grant is basically best Mavs could get with their assets without affecting the core of the team (THJ+2 picks). He is not an all star but still very much better than Maxi and most importantly, he is supposed to be available. Bring in Dragic to replace most of Hardaway minutes and we could have something going in this wide open season with no clear favorite. 

Luka, Dragic
Brunson, Green
DFS, Brown
Grant, Maxi
KP, Powell

Collins would perhaps be even better, but I don't believe Mavs have the assets Atlanta would want for him. I am not really sure about Smart. It would likely mean Brunson is gone and I am not sure how much of improvement Smart is over him.

NBA Central on Twitter: "Report: Dallas Mavericks have been linked to John Collins and Marcus Smart https://t.co/xJFwPwMHLs" / Twitter

Also I don' think were talking more about this rumor.

What could Smart bring that we dont have? What deal could Collins feasibly be had for? Pretty odd rumor.

[KillerLeft]

A starting lineup of KP/RoCo/DFS/Luka/Brunson would be an upgrade and allow us to bring Maxi off the bench.

Would LOVE this.

I'd personally be ok (excited even) for Ingrim, too. I agree the defense is a concern, but the talent upside is great, longterm. 

...just not both, and if either comes they're taking Kleber's position, not DFS's, so DFS better still be here. I honestly don't think Ingrim is available, at least not for any sort of price the Mavs can/should pay. Covington might actually be possible.

[mvossman]

Also I don' think were talking more about this rumor.

What could Smart bring that we dont have? What deal could Collins feasibly be had for? Pretty odd rumor.

The Collins rumors have been going on for a while.  We clearly have interest, but as you say the feasibility is not there.

Smart is an elite point of attack defender.  If he could shoot better he would be a perfect fit with Luka.  It is interesting that he can be traded starting tomorrow.

[KillerLeft]

I'm out on Smart. He is not a player who understands how to let the game come to him on offense, imo. I think that, given time to watch him consistently, the people who hate THJ will hate Smart just as much, as he forces things even more on that end. 

I'd rather just let Ntilikina and Green continue to compete with each other for that role and grow with this young team.

[F Gump]

My random views on where to go, so far (may be different than most)

1 I don't think the tax should matter.
2 I would keep JB and DFS, if the money is reasonable.
3 In equations with NY, I have seen M Robinson mentioned in various ways, but everyone ignores that he is in the same circumstance as JB -- he will be ufa with a sizable raise and tricky negotiation ahead.
4 I agree that trading THJ for an expiring solves the money woes, and might be a plus.
5 But I also think that you would be trading "low" on THJ, and later you might be wishing that you had a shooter (like THJ) if he simply returns back to his prior level of shooting.
6 I would definitely look to trade THJ is he's upset about being a backup. Otherwise, if he's a plus and a good leader to younger players, maybe the best move is just work to get him playing better.
7 I think ORL would look at THJ as a helpful upgrade over Harris, as he is locked in at a decent price for multiple years, so you might be able to get a bit more value in return than just a Harris rental.
8 I would expect Dragic will be bought out after the deadline and available in a month or less, and I think that remains "more likely than not" even if TOR finds a use for him as trade filler (as they are wishing).
9 I don't think the Mavs would trade for Dragic. If they had a fit that way, we would have seen it in 2021 imo.
10 BUT --- to sign him, I am wondering where the Mavs get a roster spot. It's tight already. I think they like their "end of the roster" crew, generally. (Bobi, Moses, Chriss, Ntilikina, Burke)
11 Where would you get minutes to play Dragic, as an 11th man? This would be a signing that's sorta Peja-like, right? Barring injury ...
... 1-5 KP, Maxi, DFS, Luka, Brunson
... 6-10 Powell, THJ, Bullock, Green, S Brown
12 While there might be opportunity for using the TPE to add a player, isn't that yet another roster spot you would need and don't have?
13 This year so far the Mavs churned through kids, all of T Bey, Ty Terry, McLaughlin, Carlik Jones, Omoruyi, plus some hardship guys. They did add Pinson for a 2-way after using him on a hardship deal, but seems couldn't even find any other suitable 2-way player (they never filled the other slot). Is their scouting that bad?
14 Seeing Clipps with Batum and Heat with PJ Tucker, vet 3-&-D guys on modest deals when they weren't pursued by everyone as a fa, making huge contributions, and there seems to be a lesson to be learned. Good cap mgmt. (I still think the Bullock deal was smart. Just thinking ahead here.)
15 Not that interested in Roco now, with injuries and decline and at a likely high trade cost. But be the one to sign him (or someone like him) if he's overlooked as a fa, maybe.

[KillerLeft]

My random views on where to go, so far (may be different than most)

1 I don't think the tax should matter.
2 I would keep JB and DFS, if the money is reasonable.
3 In equations with NY, I have seen M Robinson mentioned in various ways, but everyone ignores that he is in the same circumstance as JB -- he will be ufa with a sizable raise and tricky negotiation ahead.
4 I agree that trading THJ for an expiring solves the money woes, and might be a plus.
5 But I also think that you would be trading "low" on THJ, and later you might be wishing that you had a shooter (like THJ) if he simply returns back to his prior level of shooting.
6 I would definitely look to trade THJ is he's upset about being a backup. Otherwise, if he's a plus and a good leader to younger players, maybe the best move is just work to get him playing better.
7 I think ORL would look at THJ as a helpful upgrade over Harris, as he is locked in at a decent price for multiple years, so you might be able to get a bit more value in return than just a Harris rental.
8 I would expect Dragic will be bought out after the deadline and available in a month or less, and I think that remains "more likely than not" even if TOR finds a use for him as trade filler (as they are wishing).
9 I don't think the Mavs would trade for Dragic. If they had a fit that way, we would have seen it in 2021 imo.
10 BUT --- to sign him, I am wondering where the Mavs get a roster spot. It's tight already. I think they like their "end of the roster" crew, generally. (Bobi, Moses, Chriss, Ntilikina, Burke)
11 Where would you get minutes to play Dragic, as an 11th man? This would be a signing that's sorta Peja-like, right? Barring injury ...
... 1-5 KP, Maxi, DFS, Luka, Brunson
... 6-10 Powell, THJ, Bullock, Green, S Brown
12 While there might be opportunity for using the TPE to add a player, isn't that yet another roster spot you would need and don't have?
13 This year so far the Mavs churned through kids, all of T Bey, Ty Terry, McLaughlin, Carlik Jones, Omoruyi, plus some hardship guys. They did add Pinson for a 2-way after using him on a hardship deal, but seems couldn't even find any other suitable 2-way player (they never filled the other slot). Is their scouting that bad?
14 Seeing Clipps with Batum and Heat with PJ Tucker, vet 3-&-D guys on modest deals when they weren't pursued by everyone as a fa, making huge contributions, and there seems to be a lesson to be learned. Good cap mgmt. (I still think the Bullock deal was smart. Just thinking ahead here.)
15 Not that interested in Roco now, with injuries and decline and at a likely high trade cost. But be the one to sign him (or someone like him) if he's overlooked as a fa, maybe.

Phenomenal post, imo. 

I'm right there with you, 1-15.

[cow]

Smart, Bullock, Green and DFS hounding the perimeter?  



Marcus Smart is cool.

https://twitter.com/smart_MS3/status/142...32261?s=20

---

3 In equations with NY, I have seen M Robinson mentioned in various ways, but everyone ignores that he is in the same circumstance as JB -- he will be ufa with a sizable raise and tricky negotiation ahead.

Read more.  People, including me, have mentioned Robinsons impending FA status.

[F Gump]

I'm out on Smart. He is not a player who understands how to let the game come to him on offense, imo. I think that, given time to watch him consistently, the people who hate THJ will hate Smart just as much, as he forces things even more on that end. 

I'd rather just let Ntilikina and Green continue to compete with each other for that role and grow with this young team.

I like the idea of Smart, adding a rugged disruptive defender. His numbers are essentially the same as always (but they have always been awful) and he's only about 28, even though my impression is that his injuries have slowed him and are piling up. (But games missed, this season and the last 2, are numerous, which may be an indicator, so there's that).

But I don't want to roll the dice on him with the size of his new extension (4 yrs, ~76M). In fact, it's one that hasn't even started yet (and BOS wants to move off him?). That's way too much given his anemic offense. If he's MLE or a bit more, then it makes sense to me, but not for almost 20M per.

Like YOU said, I'd rather roll with what disruption we can develop out of giving such minutes to Franky and Green, who bring upside, youth, and cost way less than the MLE.

[Mavs2021]

The real problem with trading THJ for an expiring contract, is that you lose an important salaray-matching contract. Not easy to get to Lillard´s 42M for example, if your most expensive piece is Dwight Powell at 11.

Wow just looked at Portland. That is a tough situation.

They have 106M committed to just six players next year. Simons is a RFA, so he is getting paid after his recent play. Nurkic and Covington are UFA. Little comes up the season after, when they have a stunning 100M committed to three players (Lillard, McCollum, Powell).

And here we are talking just pure numbers, and completely ignore the positional overlap between Lillard, McCollum, Powell and Simons.

No wonder Morey is sitting out this Simmons situation. Portland has to do something at the trade deadline.

[KillerLeft]

The real problem with trading THJ for an expiring contract, is that you lose an important salaray-matching contract. Not easy to get to Lillard´s 42M for example, if your most expensive piece is Dwight Powell at 11.

But you get some good sized deals back by re-signing Brunson/DFS, right? I mean, they're not THJ sized deals, I get it. But, if the team is willing to pay the tax next year, they don't have to trade anyone. Most of us don't think they will. 

If they won't pay it, I'd rather keep both Brunson and DFS than THJ, if given the choice.

[ballsrchr]

We've been talking about getting Goran Dragic now for...14 years, or at least it seems that way.  I would like to have Dragic, but I'm getting tired of hearing that we are going to get him...any day now!  He'll be 49 years old by the time we get him...the way it's going now...

Does anybody have any solid information and/or time frame on Dragic?  Anybody?

[KillerLeft]

We've been talking about getting Goran Dragic now for...14 years, or at least it seems that way.  I would like to have Dragic, but I'm getting tired of hearing that we are going to get him...any day now!  He'll be 49 years old by the time we get him...the way it's going now...

Does anybody have any solid information and/or time frame on Dragic?  Anybody?

Honestly, I've cooled on him quite a bit lately. Not the player, but the fit/need here. 

If they trade Brunson at the deadline, they'll need someone like Dragic for sure. But if they don't? I still think he could add playmaking in small doses (I'm thinking like Burke minutes, lol) but with the defensive identity taking hold and paying dividends, I'm not sure I see a regular rotation spot for Dragic here.