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NBA TRADE TALK: TDL over
It is clear to me now more than ever, that Mavs are one player away from championship. Instead of THJ a better player, and it's a done deal, we win. Someone more consistent and playing better team basketball. That and Luka keep shooting the 3 until his 3 point shot is back to the normal. I hope we make a move with THJ at the trade deadline.
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(01-24-2022, 05:14 AM)burekemde Wrote: It is clear to me now more than ever, that Mavs are one player away from championship. Instead of THJ a better player, and it's a done deal, we win. Someone more consistent and playing better team basketball. That and Luka keep shooting the 3 until his 3 point shot is back to the normal. I hope we make a move with THJ at the trade deadline.

If the Mavs can get Grant level talent while losing only any combo of THJ, RB, Burke, FN, Green, DP and the Browns I think they can at least be in the WCF. Favorites to win it all? No, not at all. But they have a shot.

But the Mavs aren't going to get that type of talent with THJ as the base asset going out.

If the Mavs are lucky, THJ can net you an Olynyk + filler. But in that scenario, Olynyk isn't worth losing Green and Frankie and maybe DP too.
Would the Mavs be better? I think they would, but not by much.
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(01-24-2022, 05:14 AM)burekemde Wrote: It is clear to me now more than ever, that Mavs are one player away from championship. Instead of THJ a better player, and it's a done deal, we win. Someone more consistent and playing better team basketball. That and Luka keep shooting the 3 until his 3 point shot is back to the normal. I hope we make a move with THJ at the trade deadline.

Yeah I think the idea is to position ourselves to make one #2/#3 option trade with THJ as the core salary + filler + picks. We also still need a better classic rebounding center with some rim protection, but somebody like Robin Lopez is available for the minimum every summer. You can probably also find a player like that in the draft and build him up over 12-18 months. Doesn´t need to be a big salary.

Really sucks that Lillard and Beal are such loyal b*stards. Though I think there is still a chance Beal bails to Boston this summer and Lillard finally accepts a mutural trade agreement with the Blazers that sends him to the Mavs franchise of his choice. Tongue
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(01-24-2022, 06:59 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: If the Mavs can get Grant level talent while losing only any combo of THJ, RB, Burke, FN, Green, DP and the Browns I think they can at least be in the WCF. Favorites to win it all? No, not at all. But they have a shot.

But the Mavs aren't going to get that type of talent with THJ as the base asset going out.

If the Mavs are lucky, THJ can net you an Olynyk + filler. But in that scenario, Olynyk isn't worth losing Green and Frankie and maybe DP too.
Would the Mavs be better? I think they would, but not by much.

I agree with this.  I can't imagine there is much traction with a team looking to pick up Hardaway with years left on his contract.  The best bet for the Mavs is get the Hardaway back from last year and then maybe next year sometime you can use his salary with picks and young players to get that final piece.   If there is no traction with a Hardaway trade, it sort of puts the Mavs in a short term holding pattern, I think.
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(01-24-2022, 09:13 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: I agree with this.  I can't imagine there is much traction with a team looking to pick up Hardaway with years left on his contract. 


I don't think THJ contract is that bad. He just doesn't fit in the team Mavs have. He could be great as a shooter surounded by good defenders. Like Curry in Philly. There were teams that allegedly wanted to pay more for him in the summer and I don't think that a couple of bad months totally changed the picture on him. Sure he is not a great contract netting you a star, he never was that. But I think there would be teams willing to trade for him. I presented a scenario with New Orleans a while ago, basing on expiring Sato and Temple. Contracts, that could be used (with picks) in a trade for a better fitting player.
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(01-23-2022, 04:43 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: And this is the best argument for not trading JB or DFS... You risk having a significant talent downgrade unless it's a simultaneous deal. That's what makes the situation so tricky IMO because you clearly have something positive building. 

I lean to only trading Brunson unless DFS has unexpectedly high value. Covington was traded at the 2020 draft for 2 1sts just barely over a year ago.You'd think DFS so its very interesting what his value might be. 

Maybe there is a happy medium where you can get Kemba or Schroeder or some other PG that fits into the TPE that can score well and fill some of the void of losing Brunson. Perhaps replacement scoring PG plus some other small upgrade at the deadline elsewhere on the roster keeps the roster close to the current level and you cash on your assets at the draft or FA.

My FWIW take is that Brunson is a great contributor, for this team. He has a great BBIQ and makes the most out of his size and athleticism, but a lot of his success is playing off of Luka's gravity. No argument that he can play PG and be the distributor, but he can be disadvantaged by bigger defenders. If he stays, the Mavs will pay him as an important contributor for this team. I'm not sure he's as successful on just any other team. 

My question is, if DAL doesn't trade by Feb 10th, is that a commitment to paying JB this offseason? What about DFS?

As @"F Gump" said, maybe you sign them then work it out later. If their play stays at a high level, then they will certainly be tradeable assets come the 2023 TDL and the MBT can decide then whether to bear the financial burden or look for relief. IIRC, you only have to be under the cap on the last day of the season, correct? So you can go into next year as a tax team, but try and work your way out of it if the season goes sideways.
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(01-24-2022, 10:12 AM)michaeltex Wrote: but a lot of his success is playing off of Luka's gravity


You didn't like his play in Luka's absence? Or when Luka is on the bench?
Not very astute ^^^^
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(01-24-2022, 12:11 AM)RedFlag41 Wrote: Maybe Jamahl Mosley likes THJ enough to trade Gary Harris for him.

This is the one that I keep coming back to.  Hardaway's contract really doesn't look that bad moving forward as it declines, it's hard for Orlando to get FAs anyway, Hardaway has ties to Mosley and Florida.  Harris would give us less than what Hardaway does offensively but could still play some decent minutes for us defensively in the playoffs when called upon (although I would expect that Josh Green would jump him in the rotation in this scenario).  The biggest win is obviously the expiring contract which makes it much easier to retain DFS and JB.

Then you have Maxi and Powell's expiring plus our 2022 pick and future picks to package up in deals moving forward.
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(01-24-2022, 11:34 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: This is the one that I keep coming back to.  Hardaway's contract really doesn't look that bad moving forward as it declines, it's hard for Orlando to get FAs anyway, Hardaway has ties to Mosley and Florida.  Harris would give us less than what Hardaway does offensively but could still play some decent minutes for us defensively in the playoffs when called upon (although I would expect that Josh Green would jump him in the rotation in this scenario).  The biggest win is obviously the expiring contract which makes it much easier to retain DFS and JB.

Then you have Maxi and Powell's expiring plus our 2022 pick and future picks to package up in deals moving forward.

Gary Harris has not been good for the last couple of years (THJ has been much better the previous two) but this does get you off THJ contract and Harris is a better fit on this team.  This move makes some sense, although I would probably rather engineer a Dragic trade if possible.
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(01-24-2022, 12:00 PM)mvossman Wrote: Gary Harris has not been good for the last couple of years (THJ has been much better the previous two) but this does get you off THJ contract and Harris is a better fit on this team.  This move makes some sense, although I would probably rather engineer a Dragic trade if possible.

Ya, to me none of it would be because you want Gary Harris, he's definitely fallen off a cliff, you make this trade to keep Brunson and DFS.

I would say Harris is still a better defender than THJ but, like I mentioned, I think Green would be taking most of Hardaway's minutes and Gary and Frank would be left fighting for the scraps.
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(01-24-2022, 11:27 AM)fifteenth Wrote: You didn't like his play in Luka's absence? Or when Luka is on the bench?

I did. He was important to keeping some momentum going this season, otherwise it would probably have been a hole too deep to climb out of. Regular season with a different team every night (mostly) JB can be effective. So, I guess from a ranking/seeding perspective he makes a great contribution because he helps secure wins.

I just think he gets negated in a playoff series unless there are others to draw more attention and a lot of those types play his position on other teams. If everybody is healthy for DAL, then he gets harder to defend. But I'll give him credit for working to improve, so maybe that's not as big a deal anymore.
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(01-23-2022, 11:34 PM)mvossman Wrote: I agree with a lot of this, but I am totally out on two firsts for Grant.  I think that guy is overrated. 


He probably is overrated, and especially here. But that's because many of us have in mind a certain player type who would be ideal next to Porzingis, and it's kind of a rare bird we're looking for. Someone bigger and longer than a 3, but who still moves like one. 

I think prime Covington would've been great. I think uninjured Isaac would be great. There are others, but not that many, actually, especially when you take availability to the Mavericks into account. Grant has been available twice now in the short time KP has been here, so we've talked about him a lot. I think that might have made this board a little Grant crazy. 

I was super into it when he was a FA, and I'm still not opposed to adding him. But not for 2 first round picks (!). Not even for one, really.
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Thinking what it would cost to get SGA from OKC…. 

Staying put for the moment, then trading our 2022 for our 2023 at draft night with the knicks, and suddenly we can trade 2023 + 2025 + 2027 the next moment…
Hardaway (okc has time and minutes next year for him – will net them another firstrounder down the road) green, filler (powell) + our 3 firstrounders…
When does SGAs 29 mil extension counts in trade matching? Allready on draft night or beginning with 1.7.2022?
Resign JB and dorian, and just try to find your next thad young with exceptions or trades…

Or we trade JB at the deadline to the knicks for our 2023 + something and go for SGA with our 2022, 2024, 2026 + postive value players that okc preffers (they are still 30 mil under the cap this year).
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(01-24-2022, 01:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Someone bigger and longer than a 3, but who still moves like one. 


Like Kleber?
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(01-24-2022, 01:31 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Like Kleber?

Like a Kleber/DFS hybrid.
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(01-24-2022, 01:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: He probably is overrated, and especially here. But that's because many of us have in mind a certain player type who would be ideal next to Porzingis, and it's kind of a rare bird we're looking for. Someone bigger and longer than a 3, but who still moves like one. 


[Image: giphy.gif]


(01-24-2022, 01:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I think prime Covington would've been great. I think uninjured Isaac would be great. There are others, but not that many, actually, especially when you take availability to the Mavericks into account. Grant has been available twice now in the short time KP has been here, so we've talked about him a lot. I think that might have made this board a little Grant crazy. 

I was super into it when he was a FA, and I'm still not opposed to adding him. But not for 2 first round picks (!). Not even for one, really.


The more I think about it, the more I think the play is to trade DFS+THJ in a package for Ingram. Then go to Portland and get Covington for whatever bargain deal you can to save them money. 

It'll hurt to trade God-King. But Ingram is EXACTLY what we're looking for. He's also a good playmaker. I'm starting to rev my engine for Ingram.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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Whoever Mavs bring in next, will be overpaid both in terms of assets and likely salary. Everyone knows when team wants to go for real contender and charge accordingly. If Mavs think Grant is the missing piece, if he is available, price should not be the limitation. Or we will just continue to discuss for another three years which players where too expensive to trade for while Mavs keep changing around the edges. 

I think Grant is basically best Mavs could get with their assets without affecting the core of the team (THJ+2 picks). He is not an all star but still very much better than Maxi and most importantly, he is supposed to be available. Bring in Dragic to replace most of Hardaway minutes and we could have something going in this wide open season with no clear favorite. 

Luka, Dragic
Brunson, Green
DFS, Brown
Grant, Maxi
KP, Powell

Collins would perhaps be even better, but I don't believe Mavs have the assets Atlanta would want for him. I am not really sure about Smart. It would likely mean Brunson is gone and I am not sure how much of improvement Smart is over him.

NBA Central on Twitter: "Report: Dallas Mavericks have been linked to John Collins and Marcus Smart https://t.co/xJFwPwMHLs" / Twitter

(01-24-2022, 01:32 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: But Ingram is EXACTLY what we're looking for


Not so sure about it. He is certainly a good offensive player. But is he willing to play defense? He was also never part of a winning team. In any case, I don't think Mavs have nearly enough assets to get him.
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(01-24-2022, 01:31 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Like Kleber?

Preaching to the choir - I'm not convinced that Kleber isn't an adequate solution like some.

But just to play devil's advocate, I think ideally you'd want a better version of Kleber (with Kleber absolutely still being in the mix off the bench - he's a pretty rare player type, too).
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@"SleepingHero" I love Ingrim, and I think he is a 4, so that's close. 

He's longer than DFS, so that checks, but I actually think DFS is stronger, tougher and more physical. And, I agree with @"dirkfansince1998" about the defensive questions. 

But most of all, I'd target someone at the 4 to play WITH Porzingis (5) AND DFS (3). I honestly believe KP/Kleber/DFS is better than KP/Ingrim/(?) because I don't see another guy to play DFS's role once he's gone. 

...but I'm into the Ingrim idea on some levels. Not opposed.
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(01-24-2022, 01:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I don't see another guy to play DFS's role once he's gone. 


I tried to propose this with Covington, as Portland is almost certainly going to lose him and are trying to save money. Plus he's been in rumors before. 

Is DFS/Maxi/KP better than RoCo/Ingram/KP? On paper to me it's a massive step forward in talent level. 

The defensive questions are valid. But we had the same exact questions with almost half of this roster going into the season and Kidd has turned them into a top 5 defensive team without a DPOY candidate. So I'm willing to bank on Kidd/Sweeney's schemes turning a long lanky Ingram into a + defender.
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