2021-2022 ROSTER TALK: [ARCHIVED]

[cow]

2) JB would never be able to fully play to his strengths with Luka around. 
5) I do not expect this to truly hurt the Mavs too much in the long run. 

I get the doom and gloom but I think a lot of people are underestimating #2.  Mavs could have a competitive offer and JB might just want to be the lead guard.  That's not happening here.  

Re: #5:  I think JB's production can be approximated for pennies on the dollar in the short term and maybe bring some additional facets to the team but I can't say I have a ton of faith in the MBT pulling this off.  JB getting 4YR @  $110M...way too rich for my blood.  Cuban is fond of saying he likes to zig when others zag which I've come to mostly loath, but if it is the Knicks or Kings zigging, zagging might not be the end of the world.

[Branduil]

Personally I am really tired of reading rationalizations of Cuban's penny-pinching and theorizing about how he is totally going to use the money he saved to get a true #2 this time, for real guys

[cow]

Personally I am really tired of reading rationalizations of Cuban's penny-pinching and theorizing about how he is totally going to use the money he saved to get a true #2 this time, for real guys

I'm not sure anyone here is saying that.  Eventually the MBT will have to stop digging to try to get out of the hole they dug with mismanagement.   The question becomes does JB at $25M+ dig that hole deeper or get you closer to climbing out of that hole?  I can appreciate both sides of the argument.

[MaxiThreeba]

I don’t think JB is worth what’s being reported NY will pay him.  

The anger is at how this org botched this at literally EVERY point.  

- The initial structure of his rookie deal
- Being too stupid to make him a RFA
- Not offering an extension prior to season
- Not offering an extension prior to TDL
- Not trading him after deciding not to extend him….so you could trade him!
- Not engaging NY on SnT because you either misread the market or were too cheap to try and scrape an asset out of it

All of this leads to JB off the Mavs roster with nothing coming back.  

That isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of your roster building acumen when trying to show your franchise guy you can build a champion around him.

[Branduil]

I'm not sure anyone here is saying that.  Eventually the MBT will have to stop digging to try to get out of the hole they dug with mismanagement.   The question becomes does JB at $25M+ dig that hole deeper or get you closer to climbing out of that hole?  I can appreciate both sides of the argument.

Well the Mavs now have far less talent, and zero more cap space than they did if they didn't re-sign Brunson. Hope that answers the question.

[Okstate819]

Personally I am really tired of reading rationalizations of Cuban's penny-pinching and theorizing about how he is totally going to use the money he saved to get a true #2 this time, for real guys

Personally I am really tired of reading that were obviously penny pinching when we just offered a guy 22 million a year who is a distinctly flawed player. Stop pretending it’s not very possible that we would ge sitting here a year from now going “ Brunson is unreadable, he just got exposed against the Clippers again just like two years ago” Everyone who pretends signing a B player to a near max deal has no downsides hasn’t been paying attention the last 20 years.

[cow]

Well the Mavs now have far less talent, and zero more cap space than they did if they didn't re-sign Brunson. Hope that answers the question.

And if you turn Brunson into a negative asset long term, you prolong your stay in zero more cap space purgatory.

[Branduil]

Personally I am really tired of reading that were obviously penny pinching when we just offered a guy 22 million a year who is a distinctly flawed player. Stop pretending it’s not very possible that we would ge sitting here a year from now going “ Brunson is unreadable, he just got exposed against the Clippers again just like two years ago” Everyone who pretends signing a B player to a near max deal has no downsides hasn’t been paying attention the last 20 years.

Not re-signing Brunson does zero towards helping the Mavs get better. They can sign no superstar player now by not re-signing Brunson, and in fact they have less assets now as well as a much worse team

[cow]

I don’t think JB is worth what’s being reported NY will pay him.  

The anger is at how this org botched this at literally EVERY point.  

- The initial structure of his rookie deal
- Being too stupid to make him a RFA
- Not offering an extension prior to season
- Not offering an extension prior to TDL
- Not trading him after deciding not to extend him….so you could trade him!
- Not engaging NY on SnT because you either misread the market or were too cheap to try and scrape an asset out of it

All of this leads to JB off the Mavs roster with nothing coming back.  

That isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of your roster building acumen when trying to show your franchise guy you can build a champion around him.

Fair points.  I just wonder who deserves more credit this time around, Nico or Cuban?

[Branduil]

And if you turn Brunson into a negative asset long term, you prolong your stay in zero more cap space purgatory.

I can't believe I'm still reading about fucking cap space in the year of our Lord two thousand twenty-two. The Mavs will never do anything with cap space. No one of import has ever signed here because of cap space, and they never will as long as Cuban is the owner. We can't even sign our own free agents now.

[Okstate819]

Not re-signing Brunson does zero towards helping the Mavs get better. They can sign no superstar player now by not re-signing Brunson, and in fact they have less assets now as well as a much worse team

Yes you’ve looked at the cap sheet for 2022-2023. If you want to disregard the near max salary that would’ve been on the books the four seasons after that then i suppose that’s a strategy.

[Branduil]

Yes you’ve looked at the cap sheet for 2022-2023. If you want to disregard the near max salary that would’ve been on the books the four seasons after that then i suppose that’s a strategy.

Good point the Mavs are gonna have a huge amount of cap space in 2027 when Brunson and Luka are gone

[sterlingmallory]

I don’t think JB is worth what’s being reported NY will pay him.  

The anger is at how this org botched this at literally EVERY point.  

- The initial structure of his rookie deal
- Being too stupid to make him a RFA
- Not offering an extension prior to season
- Not offering an extension prior to TDL
- Not trading him after deciding not to extend him….so you could trade him!
- Not engaging NY on SnT because you either misread the market or were too cheap to try and scrape an asset out of it

All of this leads to JB off the Mavs roster with nothing coming back.  

That isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of your roster building acumen when trying to show your franchise guy you can build a champion around him.

Say it again for the people in the back

[cow]

I can't believe I'm still reading about fucking cap space in the year of our Lord two thousand twenty-two. The Mavs will never do anything with cap space. No one of import has ever signed here because of cap space, and they never will as long as Cuban is the owner. We can't even sign our own free agents now.

You brought up zero cap space, chief.  If you want the Mavs to climb the mountain again, they need to get better at all facets of roster building.  Turning a good player into an albatross contract isn't smart management.  What's that saying about throwing good money after bad?  Yeah.

[F Gump]

I will offer one positive to the path the Mavs have been down.

While we now wonder why the Mavs didn't trade JB earlier, what was his trade value at the TDL? NY was already making noise, and it was a UFA you would be getting.

In any event, I don't think I would go back and do a realistic trade (whatever that might have netted) to move JB at the deadline ...because without JB, this team would have been one-and-done in the playoffs again. That just couldn't happen ....yet without JB, it would have. He kept the team afloat until Luka could return.

[dirkfansince1998]

Personally I am really tired of reading rationalizations of Cuban's penny-pinching and theorizing about how he is totally going to use the money he saved to get a true #2 this time, for real guys

After 10+ years of BS nothing will ever change their mind. Punt on capspace. Throw away picks instead of using cash. Let key players walk for nothing. They will find an excuse.

[cow]

I will offer one positive to the path the Mavs have been down.

While we now wonder why the Mavs didn't trade JB earlier, what was his trade value at the TDL? NY was already making noise, and it was a UFA you would be getting.

In any event, I don't think I would go back and do a realistic trade (whatever that might have netted) to move JB at the deadline ...because without JB, this team would have been one-and-done in the playoffs again. That just couldn't happen ....yet without JB, it would have. He kept the team afloat until Luka could return.

Why couldn't it happen though?  Sometimes you need to take a step backwards. A worse team without JB post-TDL would have improved our draft position and netted us an asset.  

It's all spilled milk at this point though.

[Branduil]

You brought up zero cap space, chief.  If you want the Mavs to climb the mountain again, they need to get better at all facets of roster building.  Turning a good player into an albatross contract isn't smart management.  What's that saying about throwing good money after bad?  Yeah.

It's only an albatross contract if it's a bad player who doesn't fit your team and your only goal is to trade him. If that's how Cuban thought of Brunson then it's past time to start thinking about trading Luka.

[F Gump]

Why couldn't it happen though?  

I think a one-and-done again in the playoffs would have been devastating to Luka and to this team. Especially when the alternate outcome - the one that that was the result of their actual choices - took them to the WCF.

You have to have some success, to make the hard work worth it. To make you willing to do it again, but work even harder.

[cow]

It's only an albatross contract if it's a bad player who doesn't fit your team and your only goal is to trade him. If that's how Cuban thought of Brunson then it's past time to start thinking about trading Luka.

Good players can have bad contracts.  JB and Luka together presents problems.  They are both gifted offensive point guards who struggle on the defensive end.  If JB leaves, that dynamic is going to be a big part of why he's going.  If you think JB a true #2, give him the $30M.   I don't have any ill will towards anyone with that mindset.  If he MBT don't think he's a true #2, they can't pay him that large of a contract as if that tandem doesn't get the team where it wants to go, you'll have to pump more assets into getting off that contract.  Punting assets down the road is what got the team in this mess in the first place.

Did the Mavs fuck up with the Dwight Powell contract?  Yes.  
Did the Mavs fuck up with the KP trade?  Yes.
Did the Mavs fuck up with THJ latest contract?  Yes.
Did the Mavs fuck up with Jalen contract and extensions?  Yes
Did they make 10,000 other mistakes along the way (WCS extension, Green Draft, Curry Trade, Wright Trade)?  Yes
Do any of those fuckups matter now?  No.  You can't fix them.  You just have to move forward.

Minimizing the impact of Jalen's unrestricted free agency is the best "worst" outcome we can shoot for now.